BREAKING: The Islamist government of turkey is about to fall?

reply to post by TDawg61


Protests are against islamicization of Goverment, so Majority of Turks are now protesting for continuation of Secularity....erdogan has a bery big ego, non- erdogan voters have been harresed by his goverment for 11 years since they took the office. So it was inevitable that these days were coming, especially after he harresed the founder of this country because Ataturk brougt secularity to this country. This was the breaking point for majority of us Turks. And like this is not enough, erdogan(notice you cant spell it without "dog") gave speech to tvs yesterday still underestimating and harrasing his own people. Since the day he was first elected in this country, we knew he wasnt fit for this country. If he still doesnt back down from his harrasing speeches, ı'm afraid things will indeed get out of control more and more maybe leaving army with nothing but unwanted interferance. Coming days are crucial. Ohh ı'm not even mentioning the police brutuality. Here in Turkey we call police , erdogans army force. Understand this: these people and Erdogan goverment have problem with secularity, they want Turkey to be like arab counrty ruled by religious laws. But this is not what we are, research our history because some people are ignorant of us still thinking we are arabs and using arabic alphabet. Ofcourse Turks are muslims but we are not radicals like rest of the arab world.

So this is whats really happening here


And why is this Goverment is loved by Obama Administration? simple, do their dirt work in the middle east. Look how erdogan has been threating Esad for so many months, look how our seriously our idiot foreign minister is in the wet deeam of bringing ottoman back.... We all know that US doesnt back any administration in any country if there isnt anything in it for her. So, we know can see why erdogan goverment was chosen( ı wont even talk about role of US in elections) 3 times in a row to rule Turkey, no goverment was ever this close to US. Remember the so called ERGENEKON operations to remove anti-US generals and personell from army. So world needs to overcome from choosing corrupted goverments, which seems impossible for whatever reasons ı cant know.

I'm thinking it was hyperbole by your friend. These sorts of protests aren't unusual in Turkey, and from what I've heard, the Erdogan govt. is pretty popular, albeit not without controversy.

reply to post by MoonandStar

And why is this Goverment is loved by Obama Administration?

Believe it or not, the likes of Erdogan and Morsi have duped the Obama administration too.

The only reason the U.S. was ever close to Turkey or Egypt in the first place was because we thought they were the governments of reason in the region. The ones that would keep the extremists from taking over and shooting missiles into Israel. Erdogan talked a good game. He acted like everyone's friend, but I saw this table turning two years ago based on the people he was smoozing up to.

Egypt duped the U.S. too. The U.S. threw a bunch of money at them to try and keep the Muslim Brotherhood from running in the last election. The Muslim Brotherhood even publicly announced that they would not run, but they did anyway. Now the U.S. looks like a bunch of fools, but Obama has to keep a straight face and act like he knows what's going on. He knows he's being suckered. This is why they hesitated so long to get involved in Syria. Obama doesn't really want to be known for supporting the spread of Political Islam throughout the Middle East. He knows it's not in the best interest of the region, the U.S. or for Israel.

I'm not defending Obama by any means. I'm just trying to point out his ignorance on foreign affairs. He'll have egg all over his face before it's over. Personally, I have no idea how he ever got re-elected.

In the loud cacaphonies of peaceful protests, riots, accusations of police and govt heavy handedness, and all kinds of special interest groups joining in the protest, it is VERY EASY to miss the forest for the trees - OBLIVIOUS to glaring real reasons for the protest.

Let's be analytical for once and deny ignorances.

1. The Turkish PM had foolishly chosed to used a hard stance against the protestors, which could be forgivable given the circumstances outside of his country he had been facing over the 2 years.

The Turkish President did the right thing in a democracy - offer concillatory comments, find common grounds to calm the nation, as is the way how a democracy operates, because under democratic institutions, the nation has the Rule of Law estalished to resolve big or small problems, as long as everyone remains calm and not be emotionally manipulated.


2. Under normal circumstances, it is often quite easy to resolve citizen's anger or dissatisfaction, by meeting them or their elected representatives to discuss and debate over issues, and then disseminate the policies to the constituents, either to accept or to reject peacefully by preparing for the next election.

HOWEVER, today is NOT normal circumstances. There is a war going on in the neighbourhood, along religious sectarian lines, and another nation had invaded through its proxy funded terrorist agents, the same nation that had been found out with agents attempting to DESTABILIZE other nations around the world for decades.

a.) A bomb had recently exploded in Istanbul, with many dead and injured. It was claimed to be by the long dead Al Queda group, however, one must ask, how difficult is it for anyone to lay claims to being Al Queda?

Was the bomb a warning to Turkey to look the other way while the free syrian people are slaughtered, and if the turks do not behave meekly and submissively to the assad regime, there will be more bombs by the regime upon the innocent civilians of Turkey?

b.) Turkey, long had been singled out for condemnation by the assad regime and a minority group within turkey as hosting the Free Syrian Army as well as providing humanitarian aid to the free syrian people by the millions, amounting as 'interferences' to a neighbour, the same neighbour who is hell bent on slaughtering its own citizens by the tens of thousands.

c.) There are about 9 million shias in Turkey, about 10% of the population. They are still Turkish citizens, having only the shia faith, are innocent of other shia's wrongdoings, and only want to live in peace.

But as the sectarian strife grows, it is only natural that the Turkish shias will be concerned, as they are a minority sect in muslim but secular Turkey, and have no wish for those strife in Iraq, Syria and Lebanon spilling over to them, and thus they would make a stand to protect themselves, that sunni majorityTurkey remains secular so as to have freedom of worship.


3. It seemed strange that a simple enviromental peaceful protest could explode into a large scale protest movement with all kinds of greviences, some even violent ones, spilling out right now at this moment of time.

Was it MANIPULATED to destablize the nation at this point of time, inorder that Turkey is kept busy so that it closes its eyes to the suffering in Syria?


May Turkish citizens best be more discerning on what they are doing, and pause to reflect if they had been manipulated to become canon fodders for a bigger and wider stake in the boiling regional affairs of its neighbours.

Protests are rightful activities, but it must not hinder economic livelihoods and the continued governance of the nation. Protestors, regardless of the numbers, do not represent the majority. The majority are represented by the votes for a stable nation to be administered to with daily needs to be met.

Freedom to protest comes with a RESPONSIBILITIES to others whom did not join in the protests. Kept peaceful, within designated areas so as not to obstruct administration or livelihoods, no baiting of the police to use force, and most critically, take photos and offer any information on those who hijack the protests whom used violent means.

And the police must be investigated if they had indeed use foreceful means or intended hurt other than normal anti-riot measures to protect the public including the peaceful protestors. Espacially the ones who charged into the park protest, stirring it up - who gave the command, and was he paid to stir it up?

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101


Seeker, you're a great voice of reason, but reason doesn't truly exist in today's governments any longer.

I say be wary of Erdogan in the future. Watch his every move. I guaranty he has underlying motives that just haven't surfaced yet. He'll pose as someone for the people until he can't get along with all of his neighboring Muslim leaders. Then he'll turn on his people and side with the leaders to create an overall larger "power" throughout the Middle East, regardless of what his people think. I've seen this coming for two years now. MHO

Well, I remember writing similar post on this forum some years ago advising US Not to put too much faith on Erdogans and his goverment. From the day 1 secular Turks knew what he was made of. Like I mentioned before, Majorty of Turks are fed up with Erdogans wrong doings , decessions about neighbour countries, tryin to put islamic laws forward of modern laws and so on. Turks at last saw where their country is going and started to raise voice. Since friday I have been joining the protestors, and believe me almıst 80-90 percent of protestors are families with children, university students, enviromentalists, actors, singers, artists, engineers, doctors, nurses.... like I said mostly ordinary people of course where there is protest there there is provacators, you can not do much about that.

Let me also inform you about the Police brutality. As long as there is no police around them in the protesting area, there is no violence, people sing and dance but police without any reason provoke the groups by throwing gas and water on people. When there is no police believe me everybody just protest peacefully for thier democratic rights. Police is beating ang gassing people like they are in war with their own people and behave people like enemy soldires. There are masked civilian polices to provoke people in to violence. Thats why we call them Erdogans armed forces......

Turks are closing their bank accounts and withdrawing their money from banks owned by the mainstream media bosses which blacked out mass protests against the government. Garanti Bank lost 13% of its share price.

www.reuters.com...

Originally posted by Deetermined
... reason doesn't truly exist in today's governments any longer.

I say be wary of Erdogan in the future. Watch his every move. I guaranty he has underlying motives that just haven't surfaced yet. He'll pose as someone for the people until he can't get along with all of his neighboring Muslim leaders. Then he'll turn on his people and side with the leaders to create an overall larger "power" throughout the Middle East, regardless of what his people think. I've seen this coming for two years now. MHO

Have no fear, Deetermined. Reason had ALWAYS existed since civilisation began. Our very existence today is proof of such beliefs, for if reason did not exists, the dominant species on this planet would have been lions or microbes, both of which we mankind have learnt to control and adapt.

However, dominating beasts still exists in our world - in man's clothing. They had won battles in the course of human civilisation, but they had never won any wars, because mankind hearts and minds are ruled by logic and reason, not by might, and will never surrender to the beasts even to the last man. History is replete with proofs and evidences of this truism.

Erdogan is but only a mortal. The anger with him is but only the consequences of one's precious vote. He won the mandate to govern. Those who lost will have to acknowledge why they lost and try to win the next time. Leadership is earned, and never handed freely on a silver platter to anyone who is brainless, disorganised, or apathetic.

He may or may not aspire towards dictatorship, but as long as Turkey is a democracy and supported by the masses, he stands no chance of becoming a dictator.

The Rule of law will deny him that opportunity, and if it fails and he imposes tyranny like what the apostate persian Khomeini had done to the foolish young supporters back in 1979 in Iran, the educated masses of today will fight tooth and nail to resist enslavement.

But the rule of law still exists in Turkey. The PM needs majority parliamentary votes to enable legislation of laws. And only elected representatives can give those votes. They answer to their constituents, to explain and justify their reasons for support or no support of laws in parliament, to either be praised, or be booted out if they fail to represent the people.

The solution to the anger with the PM can be resolved peacefully within the Rule of Law and no one needs to be manipulated to become canon fodder for others selfish personal agenda. Let the Rule of law reign, and only when it is no longer fully respected and finally destroyed by the authorities or brainwashed masses, then the time for the pitchforks to appear will come.

But the time had not come, at least not yet, and need not have situations manipulated to make it seem like the rule of law had broken down. Precious human lives are at stake when anarchy reigns, more so if unnecessarily provoked and roused by emotions than logic and reason.

Democracy is not mob rule, but rule by law, laws that are legislated, agreed, respected and abide by all within an equal society where none is above the law. May the violent protestors who set fire to cars, buildings, provoked the cops and kill others be aware of where they stand, and those who support them.

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101

The solution to the anger with the PM can be resolved peacefully within the Rule of Law and no one needs to be manipulated to become canon fodder for others selfish personal agenda. Let the Rule of law reign, and only when it is no longer fully respected and finally destroyed by the authorities or brainwashed masses, then the time for the pitchforks to appear will come.

That's exactly what I'm saying, Seeker. That's where we are. Even in America, we have Obama trying to accomplish his goals by circumventing our legislative system to do it while he also refuses to enforce the laws that already exist.

This will be in NY times today, full page I believe...

Sorry, This version of the Ad is better readable, can't edit previous post.

Erdogan has mobilized his loyalist supporters now.

The AKP government was never going to fall.
They will still win the next election.
The smartest thing Erdogan can do now is call an early election, and proceed to remain in power.
Then what are all those who are protesting against him going to do?

What most people don't realize however, is that Erdogan/AKP are part the of "greater middle east plan" being implemented by the United States. Anyone remember that map that was "leaked" not long ago?
What's happening in Turkey, may be part of that. It certainly is part of the greater plan in the region.

Lets look at this rationally.
A peaceful small protest over plans to demolish a park and build something else. Ok, nothing spectacular here.
Then suddenly everything explodes and there's protests in like 50 cities across Turkey. Police are going crazy with brutality, charging through people with vehicles, using water cannons at point blank range, firing tear gas etc into apartments, beating people, shooting people.

The rational suddenly ceases.
Sure, people are "pissed off" over other issues, but why didn't they protest before? Why wait till a protest over a park?
The park protest was hijacked.

Erdogan is that confident, that he leaves the country as the protests grew bigger and bigger.
He's now back.

Why was he so confident? What gave him this confidence?
The man has more supporters then he does opponents.
There is no real opposition in Turkey fit to rule.

Any election will only return him to power.

reply to post by iBallinU


It is good that you admit to defeat even before trying for political office. Because if you do not even have confidence from the very beginning, it is best you don't even start, so that none will be hurt or suffer faith loss.

That's why there are many losers and failures in mankind - fhey had already failed when they had not even try, when mistakes are only natural in humans in order to progress and evolve, making mistakes, learning from it to grow. None are born perfect and all knowing.

Politics are not for children to play with. It is not as simple as registering your name and hope you get voted. It is a complex game of ORGANIZATION - how you as the leader, win hearts and minds amongst your trusted friends, to motivate them to lead others to join your cause with campaign funds and human effort.

You need them, as you cannot micro-manage an entire campaign.

Erdogan is a smart man. He mobilized the mosques which has the MOST voters in the country, using religion as a quick means to achieve power, to tap into the hearts and minds using religious teachings which had long already been won by the prophet and others, with a ready network to be used.

He is also a realist, and knows that those 7th century fundamentalisms isn't gonna improve the economy if muslims are to progress and evolve, and thus his very careful balancing act between religious fundamentalist and secularist muslims like himself to most IMPORTANTLY - show results and improvements, and he most certainly did to both religion and economy.

Thus it would be very difficult for secularists to win in Turkey right now, as the secularists are seen as a force that may topple old die hard fundamental traditions, and most mosques with its voters whom are conservatives at heart would not take that chance on something new without evidences that it can be better.

However it is NOT impossible to win legally and within the Rule of Law, even if under Islamic Law, espacially amongst sunnis, with NO need for violence or any dirty underhand tricks. The tip is - There are NO heirachies within True Islam and every muslim has free will to decide on his own to make the right choice within the community, for the good of the community, and need not bow before the will of ANY man, as the prophet had already warned - he is the LAST divine messenger from Allah. There will be no other.

It will be good if there is a credible opposition in parliament, for the community needs checks and balances to ensure that no human or leader deludedly think he is a god, surrounded and supported by sycophants, and believes himself incapable of making mistakes, for all men are flawed. In this manner, it helps the ruler as well as the community to progress and evolve.

And no, there is no need to blame USA for anything and everything. Each has his own free will.None can be force against their will, more so a nation or at least the majority, when truths instead of lies and falsehoods are easily discerned through our interconnectness. Furthermore, democracy taught by the prophet came long before even the american Constitution was born.

Good luck to my fellow human brothers and sisters in Turkey.