Britain gets a warning to stay in EU by US?

Originally posted by ShadellacZumbrum
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

It reads like the US has allot to lose if Britain leaves the Union.

I guess I am curious as to what Motivates the US to make such a statement. I think there is more to it than what is being said in the article. As far as the Investing goes.. .. Is that something the US does on a regular basis?
If so where do the Dividends go and what about the gains?

I believe this is motivated for multiple reasons!
There is a global push for a one world currency!
A breakdown in the EU may hinder the push for a one world government!
The global economy is a house of cards right now and any political changes may cause it to totally collapse!

If this is true, it is pure insane globalism.

Congratulations Britannia, you just got the status of Cuba in US eyes. Now the question is, "Does Britain have Fidel Castro's guts?"

Hopefully sanity will prevail before this rings the death knell on NATO.

Memo to the US State Department: People are getting fed up with you!

Edit: Having read the Guardian article linked by the OP, I'm sure the Obama administration is responding to pressure from Germany and France to try to influence the UK to remain within the EU. The gestating trade agreement with the EU that is the focal point of concern could probably and will probably be carbon copied to the UK eventually, if they leave the EU. I think this is mostly politics emanating from Europe (Deutchland, naturlich), and is completely understandable. They don't want to be left propping up Europe alone.

That doesn't change the fact that people are fed up with the US State Department. Scalawags!!

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
Now this is an attention grabber. It leaves me, as a first impression, asking a simple question. Have we no true allies as we see the world any longer? Is Britain 'Just another country' on par with every other nation in the world for treatment and solutions? It would seem so, at least to some.

The Obama administration has warned British officials that if the UK leaves Europe it will exclude itself from a US-EU trade and investment partnership potentially worth hundreds of billions of pounds a year, and that it was very unlikely that Washington would make a separate deal with Britain.

The warning comes in the wake of David Cameron's visit to Washington, which was primarily intended as a joint promotion of the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP) with Barack Obama, which the prime minister said could bring £10bn a year to the UK alone, but which was overshadowed by a cabinet rebellion back in London.

It's a bad thing to consider as the US is anything but in a position of strength itself, at the moment. It may be we who need help in the foreseeable future. If we have burned traditional 'Brother' nations, and Allies among Allies for profit and political advantage.....who will stand and give aid to us if the time ever does come to ask?

US officials say that the White House is particularly perplexed because Britain played a key role in persuading Obama to stake significant political capital on the ambitious transatlantic partnership. If it is successful it could be the biggest trade and investment deal in history, encompassing half the world's GDP and a third of its trade.

Source

Maybe I'm just getting cynical about politics all around, but is this looking out for the best interests of Britain, The United States or Obama's personal agenda and legacy building? It's not often I'd have ever have thought about these things as separate let alone conflicting. I'm not sure on this one. It's an odd thing to see happen?

The US is in very high power at the moment. It will stay that way as long as the oil is required to be bought with the dollar. The US is scared that britain could start trading oil withe pound rather than the dollar if they leave the EU. If this happens the US federal reserve can't make money off of lending dollars to britain to buy oil with.

This is the deal I think

reply to post by LastStarfighter


That's an interesting take to it that I hadn't even considered being connected. Games within Games....and it never does stop. It makes sense too with Obama's urging the E.U. over the last years to hold to the debt issuance scheme, just as we are. If anyone breaks and succeeds outside of it, it kinda sinks the boat, doesn't it?

Well, if the choice is for Britain to survive the coming storm by breaking free and standing independent or we all go down together, I'd say I can think of worse nations to be among the survivors. The US is far far far too deep. We can't get out or survive without a crash. Math doesn't allow for it anymore and it gets worse, literally, by the hour with exponential growth. Someone has to come out decent though. Right now, Russia is the only nation in the world to be in that position, financially. They were the only ones to suffer a full, major crash well ahead of the point of the rest of the world too. They learned early what our people still laugh at even being possible.

This is where a Monarchy that has real power should come into play. Then the Queen of England can tell Obama to shove it up his, well you know.

I'm starting to wonder if severing ourselves from England was the right thing to do in 1776. So far it's been one disaster after another and instead of having to deal with 1 person who might suffer corruption and who could easily be...replaced, we have dozens and dozens of corrupt politicians and more waiting in line to take their place. Does tend to make one wonder where the U.S. would be if we stayed British.

Lets be honest. The UK is not France or Germany. You let your manufacturing sector go to China and services to India, Philippines etc. Your public sector and private sector are about the same size. Your spending is out of control. A sizable part of your population lives on the dole (64% with some kind of benefits). Your relevance on the world stage is diminishing. In a few decades your not going to be even in the top ten GDP. Bottom line the empire is gone.

The EU long term can give the UK some leverages against the US, China, Japan, India, Middle East etc. I expect your politicians to not pull out from the EU even if you keep the pound. On the same line you are always going to follow big brother in trying to relive the good ol days...

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


The US does not, and never has, had allies. They just have countries that know its easier to side with the US instead of feeling the wrath of their military for not siding with them.

Remember G.W.Bush's speech............."you're either with us [US], or you're against us [US] !

As an American citizen, I'd like to apologize to our UK friends for the sentiments of the Obama administration. Here is a guy, whose stated goal is to diminish the US role in international affairs, telling the UK how to run their country and what's best for them. He, quite frankly, has no right. You are a sovereign nation and are free to do as you wish, and we (as your closest ally, historically) should be there to support that decision in whatever way we can. Including, but not limited to, a separate trade pact ...

I, and many other Americans, are sick of his act. I am sorry the sheeple here foisted him upon you and the rest of the World. He was put in place by tptb to advance a globalist agenda, and it is an agenda that is not playing very well here across the pond from you on Main Street.

Lies. Secrecy. Scandals ...Hypocrisy is what the H stands for in Barack H. Obama.

2016 can't get here soon enough.

Originally posted by sylent6
But if the UK leaves EU then Europe will fall flat on it's face. I think the UK can manage their own currencies. Heck why don't they team up with Australia and become a duel nation of it's own. Isn't that what they want?

The EU does not need the UK for economic reasons. I'm sure it would not fall fat on its face if the UK left(or could leave) the EU.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
This is where a Monarchy that has real power should come into play. Then the Queen of England can tell Obama to shove it up his, well you know.

I'm starting to wonder if severing ourselves from England was the right thing to do in 1776. So far it's been one disaster after another and instead of having to deal with 1 person who might suffer corruption and who could easily be...replaced, we have dozens and dozens of corrupt politicians and more waiting in line to take their place. Does tend to make one wonder where the U.S. would be if we stayed British.

USA remain a colony????? Superb!!!!!!!

Originally posted by Malynn
As soon as the EU falls down the better for everyone living inside it. Burn baby burn.

And long before we know it, we will have the united states of Europe. Hey Europe will need a bailout and the u.s. will need to strengthen that dollar but by all means the u.s. will say to the u.k., its ok..we tried.

u.s. is clever but not sneaky.

reply to post by an0nThinker


Wouldn't it be interesting if the UK pulled out of the EU and Joined the BRIC formation with Russia China India and Brazil? Oh how that would be interesting. Now that's some long term thinking.

reply to post by Flint2011


Even though I think it would be interesting, I don't think even if they wanted to the BRIC would let them in. Firstly BRIC is an economic bloc unlike NATO. The SCO is the correct Asian analogue. The BRIC economies have huge potentials, China will surpass or equal the US economy in under 10 years, India in 20, Brazil and Russia will close to top 5 economies in 20 years. Neither the BRIC or SCO has granted the US observer status to the meetings.

The UK is already at its potential going down. Immigration is a problem, its seen as a US stooge in most countries even France, Germany will stand up to the US. I think there might be a case where if the UK can get out of US sphere of influence they might be given observer status to the BRIC and can have big trade deals with them. However, that would require their leaders to be pragmatic which I fully expect them not to be..

reply to post by an0nThinker


You get my point though. This is somewhat a correlation to what is happening. It's my view that Britain is pushing back now and wants to sever those notions and views and get to a form of independence so it can thrive and grow in all areas. BRIC is just an example of such an objective. Britain needs to distance itself from such bullish behavior of other nations and it won't happen as long it's stuck in the rut it's in. It's just a theory. Not stated to be fact. It makes sense though.

reply to post by Flint2011


You make a good point. I really hope that they can rid themselves from the hegemony that US presents them. For this they are going to need to drop the sheriff attitude.
They will need to roll the public sector down dramatically. When a big part of the working population depends on the public sector it will never be reduced. They need to invest in science and technology, high tech manufacturing, space, defense industry all of which they are cutting down. They need to get the working age population to work instead of being on benefits. These are already integrated into the EU and the rest comes from big brother. I just don't see a way they will overcome these circumstances unless they have a once in a century leader.

Originally posted by an0nThinker
Lets be honest. The UK is not France or Germany

Not France or Germany? The two countries with larger economies than the UK? Germany is outperforming the UK by quite a bit as well. Face it, the UK isn't what it used to be. For christ sake, the US tax revenue for 2013 ($2.9 Trillion) alone is larger than the entire UK GDP of $2.3 Trillion!!! That might seem anecdotal to you, but aside from France (which isn't much better off than the UK) The US and Germany are performing quite well in contrast (especially the Germans).

. You let your manufacturing sector go to China and services to India, Philippines etc.

You obviously aren't aware that the US manufactures roughly $2.5 trillion (and growing) every year. Manufacturing is actually a small percentage of the overall US GDP and workforce. Most advanced economies rely on services and internal consumption.

Your public sector and private sector are about the same size. Your spending is out of control. A sizable part of your population lives on the dole (64% with some kind of benefits).

Benefits in this country are a joke. They're incredibly easy to get, even if you don't need them. Obama has greatly expanded the welfare state in this country. Regardless, that isn't exactly a damning indictment for your argument...

1) The US maintains the highest annualized wage of any country in the world.
en.wikipedia.org...

2) The US has the third highest HDI (Human Development Index) in the world.
en.wikipedia.org...

3) The US is the third largest oil producer today, and is expected to claim the top spot as the worlds largest oil producer by no later than 2017; where it is expected to stay for at least 1.5 decades before being overtaken by Saudi Arabia.
en.wikipedia.org...

4) The US is the second highest natural gas producer in the world, behind only Russia. By 2015, the US is expected to overtake Russia to become the worlds largest natural gas producer. By 2025, the US will be a natural gas exporter, exporting cheap natural gas to Europe.
en.wikipedia.org...

Your relevance on the world stage is diminishing. In a few decades your not going to be even in the top ten GDP. Bottom line the empire is gone.

Actually, the US is expected to continue to grow and maintain its current share of world nominal GDP (which is roughly 25% of the worlds GDP) well into the foreseeable future. Relative to the rest of the world, the US is looking quite good, actually.
www.statista.com...

The EU long term can give the UK some leverages against the US, China, Japan, India, Middle East etc. I expect your politicians to not pull out from the EU even if you keep the pound. On the same line you are always going to follow big brother in trying to relive the good ol days...

The future is in "unions". It doesn't matter if its African, Asian, American, European, whatever. This is the beginning of a one world government. Which I honestly think is a natural progression as we continue to develop and advance as a species. But change is hard, it will have its expected bumps along the way. The "new empire" will be a human empire. Where humanity works together for the betterment of our people on this planet. I think after the technological singularity occurs, comparing countries to one another will be quite moot. So give it another 50 or so years!

Originally posted by an0nThinker
reply to post by Flint2011

 

Even though I think it would be interesting, I don't think even if they wanted to the BRIC would let them in. Firstly BRIC is an economic bloc unlike NATO. The SCO is the correct Asian analogue. The BRIC economies have huge potentials, China will surpass or equal the US economy in under 10 years, India in 20, Brazil and Russia will close to top 5 economies in 20 years. Neither the BRIC or SCO has granted the US observer status to the meetings.

The UK is already at its potential going down. Immigration is a problem, its seen as a US stooge in most countries even France, Germany will stand up to the US. I think there might be a case where if the UK can get out of US sphere of influence they might be given observer status to the BRIC and can have big trade deals with them. However, that would require their leaders to be pragmatic which I fully expect them not to be..

I think you greatly overestimate the BRIC's. Firstly, Chinas growth is not sustainable over the long-term. They are on course for a massive correction along the lines of what happened to Japan in the 1980's. They are too dependent upon fixed investment and easy credit for growth. This year alone, new capital formation around the world was roughly $1.4 trillion USD. $1 trillion of this was from China alone...yet China is only growing at about 7.5%. What does this mean? It means that China has essentially exhausted its current growth model. It isn't getting the same bang for its buck in other words.

Once China implodes (and it will) mineral rich countries like Brazil and Australia will take a hit economically (as will the commodity driven Russian economy). Really, Chinas economy is nothing more than a giant ponzi scheme. I've always found it rather astounding that Chinas GDP has quadrupled over the past ten years alone...yet the Chinese stock market has remained virtually stagnant over the same time period. If Americas GDP for instance quadrupled over the same time period, it would be a good bet that the stock market would be soaring on cloud nine!

Also, if we look at electrical output in China, we see that it is virtually stagnant at 1.5-2% growth. Why is this relevant you ask? Because historically, electrical growth follows actual GDP growth. So, as people like Jim Chanos argue; Chinas actual growth rate is probably around 3-4% max. Which isn't exactly stellar for a developing country with 1.3 billion people. It also means that Chinas real economy is probably half the current bloated artificial $8 trillion facade we all see today.

www.marketfolly.com...

reply to post by rock427

You obviously aren't aware that the US manufactures roughly $2.5 trillion (and growing) every year. Manufacturing is actually a small percentage of the overall US GDP and workforce. Most advanced economies rely on services and internal consumption.

I am saying that it is not the way forward. The UK had some great industries in aerospace, space, ship building, heavy machinery, engineering, automobiles. Do you deny that these have been allowed to rot? Internal consumption comes from wages that people receive, when growth is build on the ability for consumers to garner debt that growth is hollow. Cyclic debt, economic easing are not the way forward. Why emulate a bad system (the US) why not Japan and Germany? The debt to gdp ratio is too high, the UK borrows money for running the government.

Benefits in this country are a joke. They're incredibly easy to get, even if you don't need them. Obama has greatly expanded the welfare state in this country. Regardless, that isn't exactly a damning indictment for your argument...

Actually, the US is expected to continue to grow and maintain its current share of world nominal GDP (which is roughly 25% of the worlds GDP) well into the foreseeable future. Relative to the rest of the world, the US is looking quite good, actually.
www.statista.com...

You are mistaking who I am talking about. You do realize I am taking about the UK not the US? Then how are any of these points you are making relevant?

Originally posted by an0nThinker
I am saying that it is not the way forward. The UK had some great industries in aerospace, space, ship building, heavy machinery, engineering, automobiles. Do you deny that these have been allowed to rot? Internal consumption comes from wages that people receive, when growth is build on the ability for consumers to garner debt that growth is hollow. Cyclic debt, economic easing are not the way forward.

The UK still has some of the best research facilities in the world, as well as some of the best universities. But they do face a lot of issues going forward. Oh how the once mighty have fallen.

Why emulate a bad system (the US) why not Japan and Germany? The debt to gdp ratio is too high, the UK borrows money for running the government.

Though it certainly has its issues, I wouldn't say America uses a bad system.You do realize that Japan has been in a virtual recession for the past 20 years, right? Why on Earth would anyone want to emulate the Japanese? Their debt is over 200% of GDP. And Germany? They are far too dependent upon exports to sustain growth.

This is a big problem considering there is only so much demand world wide for German products. That is why the best economic method is consumption led growth in a free market where innovation (another natural 'resource' that seems to be lost on people) is part of the growth model...Americas outlook long-term looks much better than Germany (the only bright spot in the whole of Europe).