Two-thirds fear 'clash of civilisations' in wake of Woolwich murder

Originally posted by cody599

Now, if you are going to show me that the same results would not happen if the poll consisted of more people (say a million), I'd be more than convinced.

reply to post by InstantRemedy

 

I'm not the one that posted the ridiculous OP.

It's not my job to to go out polling

It's up to you to convince me that 1200 people is a proper representation of the thinking of a nation of 62 million.

Cody

I'm not the one posting the OP either. Nor did I make any claims about two thirds of your nation being scared of clashes. What I did was simply counter your opinion that demanded proof of two thirds of the nation fear clashes. You cannot prove otherwise as well.

What I did claim, is that you've got an agenda, or atleast are wrong, when insisting everything is perfectly fine and there are no tensions. So far you have not based this on any actual matter other than the fact that there's a festival out there (There were festivals during WW2 as well) and your wife's experience.

I have showed you enough proof that there are indeed tensions in the UK, you simply ignored them and moved on to your flawed analogy of "1800 people don't equal 62 million".

Originally posted by cody599
Today I went to Luton and went shopping for fabrics with my wife, she loves crafts, the best fabrics are in the Muslim area apparently.

Guess what ? I'm still alive

Guess what else ? At no point did I feel anything but welcome, admittedly I avoided the gang controlled areas.

But real life tells me that this thread is talking rubbish.

Cody

That's your problem right here. You assume that you and your wife's experiences are equal to those of your entire countrymen. They are not, and it gets better and better (humor wise of course) as you keep thinking these are valid logical examples.

Also, tensions do not mean that you're not going to step out alive out of every Muslim area in the UK. Tensions could be, simply as suggested, people fearing upcoming clashes.

Also, excuse me for not really trusting your experiences since (I know I'm repeating myself I am more than sure you've got an agenda along your posts.
Here's my experience - I was travelling in the UK and pretty much everyone there are barricaded in their homes with everything locked, preparing for the upcoming clashes.

See, it's that easy.

Originally posted by 23432


Lovely day here in the East Midlands .

I went out to do some shopping and everyone is out there mingling with one another in the parks .

Couldn't see any tension , anywhere .

Dont forget that this Poll was taken by around 1900 people in the London area, after last wednesday, so it obviously does not include what anyone else would be feeling outside of London.

I think what this Thread has shown is that Multiculturalism can/does work but if you bring a Religious Ideology with that Multiculturalism, it doesn't.

Or to be more specific a Religion which tries to change the Land it enters.

reply to post by InstantRemedy

That's your problem right here. You assume that you and your wife's experiences are equal to those of your entire countrymen. They are not, and it gets better and better (humor wise of course) as you keep thinking these are valid logical examples.

Not at all

I live in an area full of Muslims
My experience is truth, not indicative of Britain as a whole. Just what is actually happening .

If that is laughable so be it

But tomorrow I'll wake up there will be no backlash and on Tuesday I'll go to work, still no backlash

How much proof do you need ?

Is your life in anyway shape or form different because of this thread ?

I doubt it.

Do you want to go out and start a revolution ? I doubt it

Will you go out tomorrow amongst a Muslim population to change the fabric ? I doubt it

I will



And guess what I'll still be alive, still be happy and still posting

Cody

You seem to think I'm somehow suggesting that now or anywhere in the near future is a time when riots will emerge for sure and the clash is inevitable.
Get it through - I'm not.

My very simple point is that it's absurd to even attempt to insist that there aren't any tentions, and base this on the fact that you don't run through them yourself.
Nevertheless, the tensions are there. If you do not run into them it's your win, but it is not telling of the entire situation in the country.

It's really that simple.

Also,

How much proof do you need ?

I'm not quite sure you're aware of this, but so far you have given none. Your own experience (in this case stories, even) do not constitute as proof.

Originally posted by InstantRemedy
You seem to think I'm somehow suggesting that now or anywhere in the near future is a time when riots will emerge for sure and the clash is inevitable.
Get it through - I'm not.

My very simple point is that it's absurd to even attempt to insist that there aren't any tentions, and base this on the fact that you don't run through them yourself.
Nevertheless, the tensions are there. If you do not run into them it's your win, but it is not telling of the entire situation in the country.

It's really that simple.

Also,

How much proof do you need ?

I'm not quite sure you're aware of this, but so far you have given none. Your own experience (in this case stories, even) do not constitute as proof.

edit on 26-5-2013 by InstantRemedy because: (no reason given)

I can't give proof that isn't there
Reason ? Oh bugger me it isn't there, there is no tension, on the 'front line'.

It's all in the minds of those that fear to find out.

Cody

Two-thirds of young British Muslims agree that 'honor' violence is acceptable.
www.dailymail.co.uk...

95% of honor killings in the West are perpetrated by Muslim fathers and brothers or their proxies.
fullcomment.nationalpost.com...

Middle East Quarterly: 91 percent of honor killings are committed by Muslims worldwide.
www.canadafreepress.com...

BBC Poll: 1 in 10 British Muslims support killing a family member over "dishonor".
www.expressandstar.com...

MacDonald Laurier Institute: 62% of Muslims want Sharia in Canada (15% say make it mandatory)
www.torontosun.com...
www.macdonaldlaurier.ca...

ICM Poll: 40% of British Muslims want Sharia in the UK
www.telegraph.co.uk...

NOP Research: 68% of British Muslims support the arrest and prosecution of anyone who insults Islam;
www.cbsnews.com...&date=2011-04-06
www.webcitation.org...

NOP Research: 1 in 4 British Muslims say 7/7 bombings were justified
www.cbsnews.com...&date=2011-04-06
www.webcitation.org...

Originally posted by MidnightTide

Watch as all of this gets mocked because someone bought a soda from a shop owned by Muslim people and lived to tell about it.

Originally posted by TruthxIsxInxThexMist
reply to post by Tiger5

 

There has also been a small increase in the proportion of people who believe British Muslims pose a serious threat to democracy, up to 34% on Thursday and Friday from 30% in November 2012, according to the YouGov survey of 1,839 adults.

What does this tell you?

Again, if the poll was online, you'd get more than 50% saying that this Religion poses a serious threat to Democracy.

Firstly is the number of people surveyed a representative sample if so how?

Is the small increase of 4% of statistical significance? I.e can you really make any case of of those figures. Do you understand statisitics.

Are the people correct in their assessment. History has proven that people have voted the wrong people in for decades...

reply to post by TruthxIsxInxThexMist


Realistically,this has been on the cards for years,when you have two diametrically opposed cultures living alongside each other,will it really be surprising when tensions completely boil over into mass violence?

Originally posted by TruthxIsxInxThexMist
I think what this Thread has shown is that Multiculturalism can/does work but if you bring a Religious Ideology with that Multiculturalism, it doesn't.

Or to be more specific a Religion which tries to change the Land it enters.

edit on 26-5-2013 by TruthxIsxInxThexMist because: (no reason given)

Firstly multiculturalism includes religious plurality. This land has been able to accomodate many religions.

Now as to the issue of shaping the country. Provided the individuals pay their taxes they are fully entitled to participate in the democratic process and put forwards their requests for modification. As part of the democratic process we can then counter that or support it. Hallal meat supply and demand is a business decision outside of state institutions as EU and UK law is now thankfully anti discrimination.

Now if there is an area where there is a majority in the local area then the sheer numbers can modify that area as in Jewish areas (and fair play to them as they do not seem to cause any problems).

When the IRA was bombing the hell out of the UK no one blamed Xtianity or Catholicism and they killed more than the Moslems have.

reply to post by Tiger5


I dont know why people keep going back to History.

We are talking about Now.

Forget History..... People need to move on.... its the only way to progress!

If you keep using History as an excuse.... this THING will just keep going round in circles.

reply to post by TruthxIsxInxThexMist

I don't know about you, but there isn't a religion in the world on whose behalf I would fight--not a one!!!

Why ever would I fight for a religion for which there is no scientific proof it stands for anything but the biggest lie ever told in order to keep the sheeple in line. Anyone who sets aside these religious story books and really gets down to the basics of why religions exist at all, they will find that they came into being out of fear and control and to a certain extent to try and make sense out of the universe.

If there is a war between the Muslims and the Christians/Jews it will be at the pleasure of the elites both in government and industry and military machine. And the sheeple will doubtless play the roles they've been propagandized to play.

What a tragic waste of life and resources. It's enough to make any sane person cry. I angst for the young who will increasingly be drawn into battles for which there is absolute no need to shed blood.

Needless to say, the bought and paid for media will play its part to get everyone on board and hyped. What an inglorious world we live in.

'Cleansing' out Muslims will surely lead to cleansing out other ethnic minorities? Also keeping in mind Islam incorporates all other races too which makes up 25% of the worlds population?

I believe it's impossible for such a move to take place due to a keyword called Globalisation. Bankers, corporations and politicians love cheap immigrant labour as they undercut expensive demanding native workers.

Imagine if Saudi suddenly decided to turn off all the oil taps?

We now live in a world where everyone relies on each other, so cutting off a large group of people due to their religion is abit farfetched.

I would even bet on the British National Party diluting its immigration policies significantly if it ever came into power.

Originally posted by TruthxIsxInxThexMist
reply to post by Tiger5

 

I dont know why people keep going back to History.

We are talking about Now.

Forget History..... People need to move on.... its the only way to progress!

If one doesn't know own history , one is destined to repeat history .

You are asking for a solution to radicals in Islam , only way to tell who is radical or not is to microchip them , vola , problem solved .


I dare say it but , how do you like them apples now ?

Who knew that the harbingers of NWO would be ordinary folks who couldn't see the forest because of the trees .

reply to post by Galvatron


Just to clarify.

You think the Nazis were within their rights to expel all the Jews from their lands.

You think the western world (whatever that is) would be within their rights to expel every muslim from their lands.

But you're not prejudice or a bigot.

Amazing stuff.

Originally posted by iBallinU
The sooner that Western nations wake up and realize that Islam is a threat to our way of life and our very existence, the better off the future of Western nations will be.

In the West we strive for equality and treating everyone with the same rights.
In Islam, there is no such concepts.
Equal rights do not exist.

You think because a few Muslims in the West don't care about their religion, that they are the true representation of Islam?

........

Go to any major city in Europe or Australia(don't know about America & Canada, but probably the same stories there too), where there are muslim immigrants. Crime has increased, and it is no surprise that these people are the ones being arrested and linked to the crime increases.

Well here in Michigan in the US we have a large Muslim Arab population and a large Christian Arab Population (Chaldeans). Both groups for the most part have assimilated and act pretty much like everyone else. Sure they have kept their identity and have changed their communities, but they for the most part have become Americans first and then their ancestry, much the same way the Polish, Irish, Italians ect have.

Europe doesn't seem to have that same thing going on and I wish someone would tell me why? I think it boils down to Europe letting in EVERYONE, when you should have been selective, letting in only those that could benefit your society. If you allow a bunch of deadbeats into your country and pander to them..... then you shouldn't be surprised at how they act. Most immigrants to America seem to have that "American Dream" mentality and want to be successful, Europe seems to have gotten the gutter-types when it has come to immigration.


It's the White Elephant in the Room and Europe better start addressing it. Inaction, will just cause more festering. If you have a Cancer in your society, you better treat it and remove it from your body. Otherwise you are in for even more problems. Europe now has second generation NATIVE born to Europe Muslims who despise and hate their birth countries, that's messed up, IMO. You've got a big problem and it needs addressing sooner rather than later. Multi-culturalism only works if both sides respect each other, that obviously isn't happening for the most part in Europe.

Originally posted by bates
reply to post by Galvatron

 

Just to clarify.

You think the Nazis were within their rights to expel all the Jews from their lands.

You think the western world (whatever that is) would be within their rights to expel every muslim from their lands.

But you're not prejudice or a bigot.

Amazing stuff.

Just keep repeating your self. You have not addressed a single point I've made and haven't answered a single question I've asked of you. You've repeated yourself for sure, I think this is the 3rd time now. You're position is highly dubious.

Just because I think they were within their rights doesn't mean I myself have a problem with Jews or Muslims. I don't even have a problem with Islam as a religion. I'm pointing out that it is an uncompetitive system of society that attempts to dominate, eventually over time as history has shown, every society where it is present. Islam itself declares that it does this unabashedly. Do you see the difference?

So I'm bigoted for not having a problem with Muslims, Christians, Buddhists, Jews, etc. etc., but I'm somehow bigoted because when an entire society comes together to realize that one aspect of it is hurting far more than it is helping it, and then it decides to remove that aspect by agreeing on a fundamental ethical level of societal requirements, they are within reason to do it? Did you know the England peacefully expelled its Jewish population in 1290? I never once condoned the violence and slaughter the Nazis did. In fact, I denounced it quite completely.

Do you not believe in the rule of law? Because when a convicted criminal goes to jail, that criminal has effectively been removed from society by that society as a whole for failing to meet a fundamental ethical level of social requirements. The society either accepted or demanded the laws to be that way. It's the same concept. In both cases, society is saying 'yep, this thing (person, place, thing) needs to be removed because it is a threat to others around it and this societal system as a whole"

I asked you to have a civil, pointed, and engaging discussion, but every single time I answer your derogatory remarks with reason, poise, and conviction, you merely blurt the same derogatory remarks. It's like talking to someone who failed A-Level, its like talking to someone who's dead.

I fail to see how taking an otherwise, somewhat isolated incident that happened across the pond could in any way be construed or applied to anywhere stateside.... with regards similarities or differences amongst tensions or anxieties in an entirely different 'subset' of those who just so happen to be muslim .... or even Kermit the frogs, for that matter.

hell... it'd be like trying to make apple strudel with a friggin shepherd's pie recipe. ??

Originally posted by MidnightTide
Two-thirds of young British Muslims agree that 'honor' violence is acceptable.
www.dailymail.co.uk...

95% of honor killings in the West are perpetrated by Muslim fathers and brothers or their proxies.
fullcomment.nationalpost.com...

Middle East Quarterly: 91 percent of honor killings are committed by Muslims worldwide.
www.canadafreepress.com...

BBC Poll: 1 in 10 British Muslims support killing a family member over "dishonor".
www.expressandstar.com...

MacDonald Laurier Institute: 62% of Muslims want Sharia in Canada (15% say make it mandatory)
www.torontosun.com...
www.macdonaldlaurier.ca...

ICM Poll: 40% of British Muslims want Sharia in the UK
www.telegraph.co.uk...

NOP Research: 68% of British Muslims support the arrest and prosecution of anyone who insults Islam;
www.cbsnews.com...&date=2011-04-06
www.webcitation.org...

NOP Research: 1 in 4 British Muslims say 7/7 bombings were justified
www.cbsnews.com...&date=2011-04-06
www.webcitation.org...

It would very much depend on which Muslims they asked wouldn't it ?

If you go to a radical area and do a poll the results will be twisted in favour of kind of sensationalism you are trying to promote.

If you go to a richer, more integrated area I'm sure the results would be very different indeed.

Radical area ............radical results
Moderate area ..................moderate results

It's bit of a no brainer really

Cody