Police swoop on the homeless taking sleeping bags and food parcels in co-ordinated raids in Redbridg

Carlin summed it up best when he popularized the acronym: NIMBY.

I also agree with him that the term homeless needs to be retired and supplanted with houselessness.

Don't take my word for it, though - like him I drink the local water too and it's probably affecting me.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by RedParrotHead

 

This is true. Some of them make a career of standing on the same corner with the same sign. When I was a working professional (social worker), we had an inservice where the cops came and made a presentation about how they were training their ranks to have "crisis management" skills (which is a good thing). They explained to us (the front line fighting for people's dignity and welfare) what techniques they were learning to deal with the homeless.

I had the audacity to raise my hand and ask them what they were going to do about the guy at 12th and Broadway who had been standing on the same intersection for years with a cardboard sign that said, "Going to Denver. Need help."
My boss chewed me out later.

That's only one of MANY incidents I could relate.

On the other hand, here there are so MANY unoccupied "foreclosed" homes and vacant buildings, WHY should these people not be allowed to 'squat' in them? ESPECIALLY the ones who were forced into homelessness by the rampant greed of Capitalist off-shoring of American jobs?

[/quote

I was wondering something along these lines today as the husband and I drove around a small college town looking for a place to stay so that we could better ourselves. As we drove around, we noticed quite a few homes that, while small and in a state of disrepair, seemed quite fine from the outside. I wondered out loud to my husband why there wasn't some sort of program that would allow first time homeowners with little/no credit to buy a house in such a state of disrepair and put blood, sweat, and tears into a project like that. Maybe even have a timeline - such things have to be done by this date so you keep the house.

We've had a hard time finding a home, and we're not bad people - we just got sucked up with student loans trying to better ourselves, and now we are left carrying a heavy burden with little to show. I just want to work, and I'm sure most of these homeless people would do the same if given a chance and a stable environment.

reply to post by TruthxIsxInxThexMist


The sad fact is, if the climate change keeps going, the homeless dead will be cleaned up with each spring thaw. You might have a house to live in but if you cant heat it, its going to be a pointless exercise. _javascript:icon('')

Welcome to the real world. This goes on in the states too. Years ago, every three months the city of _________ would have a "cleaning campaign". They'd bring city workers, trucks and front loaders along the tracks and clear out the people staying under the bridges.

Usually during the day so people aren't there.

If anyone complained the police were there to explain it. So you got back and your spot was a dirt patch again.

After some time they just put razor wire or wrought iron fences with spikes on top, to discourage people. Then they put the tracks under cal trans and started patrolling the tracks at night in Blazers, shining spotlights and arresting people for trespassing.

Cuffed, downtown, court date, for living outdoors.

This is not second hand, it happened to me. Nobody cared, nobody came to anyones rescue. Nobody was defended in a court of law. There are no victims advocates for this kind of thing.

Scourge of society. Damned non conformists.

Originally posted by anonentity
reply to post by TruthxIsxInxThexMist

 

The sad fact is, if the climate change keeps going, the homeless dead will be cleaned up with each spring thaw. You might have a house to live in but if you cant heat it, its going to be a pointless exercise. _javascript:icon('

')

Actually "homeless" people have the best chance of surviving some disaster. They eat garbage and sleep in the dirt so their immune system is better than average. They are already climatized. It gets cold at night, they know where and how to stay warm. Self contained survivalists-- everyday.

Originally posted by TruthxIsxInxThexMist
reply to post by JAK

 

NOPE!

Afraid your assessment of me is totally wrong.

I am one of the most caring guys on the Planet, its just a shame I don't receive the same back.

You make assumptions when you have NO Idea what I'm talking about.

You Single my post out but what you failed to see was the post 2 above yours which goes way beyond what I said.

edit on 24-5-2013 by TruthxIsxInxThexMist because: (no reason given)

Lol, now I have to say you do seem mighty conceded when you say " I'm one of the most caring guys on the planet". I hated people like you when I was homeless. That was a bad experience that I wouldn't wish on anyone else. Tho I did learn how to appreciate what I have. Sometimes all you need is someone to help you up. And I doubt you are ever that "guy" imo

reply to post by TruthxIsxInxThexMist


You're right on one account--I think you're a "Nasty" person.

_____________________

Taking someone's food and blankets because
they are not welcomed is stealing.
It doesn't matter what excuse the police use,
the police are committing theft.
Two wrongs does not make a right.
I hope a good ethical lawyer takes this case and brings
justice.

______________________

I don't blame someone for being lazy and mooching off others.

That's just their self-preservation instincts making up for their lack of motivation.

But I don't blame someone for not allowing others to mooch off them.

But probably most homeless people aren't just being lazy and using others.

We live in an imperfect world. Things don't always work out. Probably never will.

I can't blame the creator because I haven't seen any evidence of a creator.

And if there's a creator, I'm not even sure it's right and proper for me to cast any stones.

I live in a glass house.

There's more to this than meets the eye, I think. But we all got our backgrounds and our goals. It looks like there's so much disagreement. We're a lot of people coping with reality.

We're not here to agree. We're here to be. What else is there.

Like many pointed out, the cops crossed any valid authority when they confiscated the homeless people's belongings.

Given that many communities do not wish homeless people occupying common spaces in their communities, perhaps the government can unofficially designate some public areas far from such communities for the homeless to erect their dwellings and relocate homeless people occupying other public places to these areas? Sure these areas could become crime prone and a health risk, but it is perhaps a lot better than not even letting them protect themselves from the weather.

Of course a much better solution would be to allow low cost (and hence low standards, of both facilities and sanitation) housing to come up and allow people to move to those places.

Originally posted by Lady_Tuatha
reply to post by TruthxIsxInxThexMist

 

I am pretty sure that not all the homeless people in the UK are immigrants. There is plenty of English homeless people, have you no sympathy for them?

A lot of the homeless people are ex military. They don't fit into "civvy life".

I don't think it is any of the Police's business whether people are sleeping rough or are homeless. It's a political thing.

With regard to the Eastern European homeless in Britain, there has indeed been quite a problem with this. I noticed that all of the usual Big Issue sellers (a magazine that homeless people can sell on the street and make themselves legitimate income to explain to US members) had suddenly disappeared and were replaced by Romanian Women (usually with young children) screaming in your face, not just trying to sell you the magazine, but begging as well.

I would always buy a magazine from the Scottish sellers, who were always polite and friendly. If I could afford it, I would often pay more than the value of the magazine, to give them a bit extra. One time I gave a seller my gloves because it was freezing and he could hardly use his hands, his response was very humbling because he was so grateful for a pair of £1.99 gloves...

Suddenly though, like I said previously, all of the Scottish sellers just disappeared and not only did the Romanians appear in the places the Scots had disappeared from but the turned up in just about every town centre in Scotland, screaming in your face, begging etc, I was quite perplexed, although I hoped that all of the Scottish sellers had miraculously got themselves off the street, I knew that this was unlikely, I also couldn't understand why people would move from their home country to be homeless in another..

Turns out it was a number of organised gangs who had come from Romania, used violence and threats to remove the indigenous sellers and take over their patches. What was really eye opening..and I saw it for myself with one of the sellers in my home town (where normally there would be no sellers) was that the Romanian woman was dropped off at her patch in a BMW!!!!!!

An investigation showed that none of these people were actually homeless and that the gangs were raking in thousands of pounds every week.and are even now allowed to claim benefits because they have exploited a loophole in the system that by selling Big Issue they are technically self-employed...

Here's an article that gives more information about this (okay it's the Daily fail, but it is accurate) Romanian Big Issue Sellers

So I can understand where other posters who are a bit fed up are coming from, we still have plenty of indigenous homeless people and I do believe that they should have opportunities to better themselves before those who have chosen to move to the country simply to rip the benefits system.

ETA Here's a quote from the comments section of the article I just posted, although from another part of the UK it is saying exactly what I have just said..No one has a problem with the homeless or wanting to help, but the current situation is getting out of hand

We used to have a really lovely man in bedford, who sold the Big Issue, his name was Devon. He was always polite, never pushy, nicely spoken, a nice chap to pass the time of day with. He even got to know my son, from a baby to to a little boy, & we used to give him a little christmas present. Well, overnight, he disappeared, to be replaced by a Romanian chap, who sometimes actually follows you down the street, and if you dont have the right money, he actually keeps the change instead of offering it back to you! So, i no longer buy. - aly , bedford, 22/1/2012 08:38 Click to rate Rating 2660 Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk... Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Originally posted by stirling
You Brits are pretty Goddamn cold arent you?
No wonder your race is dying out.......

And what fantastic country do you live in?

Originally posted by Trueman

Originally posted by TruthxIsxInxThexMist
reply to post by Lady_Tuatha

 

This Country is full, so I'd hope that the gates will be closed soon.

Your country-empire invaded so many countries for centuries, karma is a b1tch.

So did the Russians, french, Dutch, Swedes, Spanish, Portuguese, Romans, And the latest lot, the Americans!

Originally posted by TruthxIsxInxThexMist
You may think I'm a Nasty person when I say this but if you are going to come over to England, you should be sure to have some Qualification in something to gain work or at least have prepared somewhere to stay before coming over.....

I wouldn't call you nasty, but I would call you incredibly naieve.

Of course these people didn't choose this. You think coming here to be homeless is a better way of life for anyone?

The real problem here is that criminal gangs set up systems where they convince people in Poland that they have jobs for them here in the UK, they receive money to bring them over, put them all in a rented house for a week, then disappear.

There are "employment agencies" who act criminally and are ignored by the authorities. They lie, they cheat, the con and they rob people of the money they are supposed to be earning. The companies don't care because it's cheap labour, and the agency rakes it all in as the middle man before shutting and moving to another city to set up the same thing.

You want to blame the victims here when it's actually criminal gangs, criminal companies, and a complete lack of enforcement in employment law for people who came here with too much trust.

As for this story, it's sickening to me. This is another example of the rising tensions in this country, and it's actually made me think about starting a record of all the things I can see happening here that display a shift to the right.

this makes me angry who would the police do this

The question would be,

Could you imagine a life without money,

could you imagine this even happening (homeless people that is) if there was ....

just another reason for a new paradigm, and no dont ask me for the answers i dont know the answers, what i DO know is if we keep repeating the same retarded behavior like this, all for ... money ... do you think its ever gonna change ...? (*whisper* this is usually called insanity)

maybe i just live in la la land.. but i honestly dont think i do..


Muzz

Originally posted by Observor
perhaps the government can unofficially designate some public areas far from such communities for the homeless to erect their dwellings and relocate homeless people occupying other public places to these areas?

You just proposed allowing slums to be built in the UK.
I'm not attacking you for that opinion, but this is what you have suggested. Within a decade that land would be covered in tin houses, tarpaulin roofs and open sewers.

We're supposed to be moving forward as a society, not moving backwards.

Originally posted by Observor
Of course a much better solution would be to allow low cost (and hence low standards, of both facilities and sanitation) housing to come up and allow people to move to those places.

What we really need is for all the shops, restaurants and bars in cities that own entire buildings to be FORCED to develop the upper floors into affordable housing.

You know, I saw a TV show once (it was actually a ghost hunting show in the UK from the same team as Most Haunted) where they were in an old building in a town and the ground floor was used by a chain club, the rest of the building above was completely derelict. I mean it was totally unused and hadn't been for decades. It was a beautiful building too, and it was being left to rot.

That building alone, fixed up to basic standards, could house hundreds of people.

We have a homeless problem in every major city and town in the UK, but we also have a problem with building management and companies letting historic buildings crumble and lay empty because of their own greed and selfishness.

There needs to be a plan to fix that first. The government wants to tax empty rooms in family homes, but they let corporations sit in massive derelict buildings doing nothing with them? They let house builders sit on land for decades just so a competitor cannot build there. This country is CORRUPT. That's the first thing that needs to change.

Originally posted by TruthxIsxInxThexMist
reply to post by Lady_Tuatha

 

You may think I'm a Nasty person when I say this but if you are going to come over to England, you should be sure to have some Qualification in something to gain work or at least have prepared somewhere to stay before coming over.....

Seriously, I'm sure this guys life was better when he was back in Poland!

I see this Albanian Woman outside the shops trying to sell 'Big Issue'... I'm sure she must have come here for a better reason.

Yep...you are a nasty person..jeez o man...get real...this thread is about Police abuse of power not a polish immigrant.

Originally posted by RedParrotHead
Homeless people and bums (there is a difference IMO) are a real problem for society. This isn't a wide open mountain side where folks can chose to set up camp and make it home.

People spend a lot of time, money and effort to make their towns and cities a nice place to live so you can't blame citizens for not wanting them around messing it all up. They are dirty and live dirty. The beg for money and get it through soft extortion and badgering. They often are criminals and drug addicts. I don't want them around my house, kid's school or anywhere I might be going for walk quite frankly. It's we the citizens who complain to the officials which police answer to and eventually are ordered to use strong tactics to get these "undesirables" to move on.

But we all recognize that these people are humans too and deserve some compassion. I don't want anyone to be cold and hungry. But I truly believe most homeless people have zero desire to really work for a better life. I see them every day on every corner, pathetically limping and begging for money until the light turns green and the cars start moving...then they shout to their buddy on the other side of the street asking how much they got, counting their wads. This one "Homeless pregnant mother" (according to her sign) has been with child for three years now.

So, is there an answer? I don't know

Taking their only means of shelter doesn't get rid of the problem.. They'll still be there "everyday on every corner".