Tornadic diffusion technology

Due to the horrendous toll that tornado's inflict on civilian and animal population's...is there a technology avialable from other advanced civilizations, that live on other star systems in our universe, that have the capability of diffusing tornadic funnel rotation?

I tend to speculate [due to my alien starship sighting one night in November, 1976, approx. 40 miles west of Washington D.C. --- possible starship speeds of 15,000 mph --- in our atmosphere]...that a starship that is capable of such speeds in our atmosphere, should also be capable of flying high speed circles around a tornado.

My hypothesis: Is that a high speed starship or drone aerial craft, could stage itself in the upper top cloud formation where the funnel starts to rotate and form --- and subject the funnel cloud with it's own form of clockwise wind shear rotation --- by high speed aerial clockwise rotation around the upper funnel, thusly depriving the tornado of counterclockwise warm moist winds from the Gulf of Mexico; with the resultant diffusion of the tornado.

It is beyond my mathematical capabilities to calculate the rotational speed for an aerial craft, inorder too diffuse the counterclockwise rotation of an EF-1 thru EF-5 tornado --- so your help would be most appreciated.

Any other thoughts would be also most appreciated.

Thanks,

Erno86

During the time when a tornado wind begins is cyclical movement, and before it reaches the ground and begins to grow its footprint, I believe it has a weakness, which if exploited, could see its cohesion devolve to the point where it cannot achieve continuity of form and flow.

However the methodology to actually stop such a thing could have terrible consequences of its own. I speculate that the best way to halt such a ravening cycle, would be to detonate a Massive Ordnance Air Burst Bomb of some sort, directly in the centre of the top of the cycle, before it reaches the ground. Thermobaric explosives, cause massive pressure waves, without the need for nuclear material, and the pressure released from the explosion would probably displace the currents of air responsible for the tornado effect.

However, these explosions are very dangerous indeed, and are designed to level an area. They are similar to daisy cutters in this respect. That said, the effect of a higher altitude detonation, within the top of a tornado, would cause significant disruption to the airflow required to maintain spin rate and suction. The questions will be, are the current versions of MOAB weapons capable of being retro-engineered to detonate higher off the ground than they are currently set for, and what would the effect on the ground be, of detonating such a powerful explosive from that altitude? Also, since MOAB are currently designed for launch from C-130 Hercules aircraft, would the size of the craft, and its relatively low speed (when compared to a small strike fighter for instance) make them incapable of reaching a target storm, in time to prevent the funnel from successfully forming?

And another question, would the current status of weather reportage allow people to KNOW for certain how damaging a tornado in the offing would be, and give an early enough warning to allow such a vast aircraft to scramble in time to prevent a tragedy? I imagine that alternative launch platforms could be devised, faster ones that is. Or with the advent of the unmaned aircraft, I guess they could be self propelled and guided from a base station, to detonate with pin point accuracy. They would certainly have to drop in from almost directly above the funnel in its formative state to have the effect I am hoping for.

Of course, testing such a theory would be very difficult, and testing the equipment in a real scenario would be a hairs breadth from genocidal if it went wrong, but I am sure there are methods we could apply from our current armoury and technology, rather than relying on the whims of hypothetical alien species.

I would assume special military style explosives/missiles could do the trick to disrupt the air in cone of the tornado? Heavily populated areas should be equipped with such equipments atop a fire station or a police station? Just a WAG.

reply to post by TrueBrit


Jeez, what a response.

reply to post by TrueBrit

I know they used explosions to control the oil well fires during the 1st gulf war in iraq.

Originally posted by onequestion
reply to post by TrueBrit

 

Jeez, what a response.

Was that a positive Jeez, or a "you are blatantly insane, seek help" Jeez?

reply to post by hp1229


They certainly did. The reason that worked so well was because explosions literally force the air out of an area for a short time, but long enough to deny fire one of its three requirements for existence, Oxygen. By pushing all the oxygen away from the flame, it literally suffocates the fire in mere moments.

In that the method I propose would violently move the air of which the tornado is comprised, cutting off the cyclical effect, the two applications could be seen as somewhat similar I suppose.

reply to post by TrueBrit

Yep. Kinda figured that. I also remember vaguely the topic being discussed on a documentary long time ago. However it is not viable since the locations are unpredictable as per when and where a tornado will strike even despite the fact that they are plotted every year on a chart.

reply to post by hp1229


I fail to see why each town in the alley couldnt be equiped with an armoured silo for launching a tornado busting missile.

Originally posted by TrueBrit
reply to post by hp1229

 

I fail to see why each town in the alley couldnt be equiped with an armoured silo for launching a tornado busting missile.

True but do you know how big the US is? Not to mention rogue elements and the constant threat or worry of 'terrorists' taking control of the silo?

reply to post by hp1229


I suppose the threat of terrorism is going to be a concern for the rest of time, if we are to continue to focus upon it as much as we do as a species. However, in terms of coverage, one silo could cover a vast area of responsibility, and if the technique were to be even eighty percent as effective as I think it could be, then it would save masses of lives, and billions of dollars in property damage, every year more than likely.

It would be a terrible shame if mankind found the arrow that would peirce at the heart of this problem, only to have it taken from his hand by his own foolishness.

Originally posted by TrueBrit
reply to post by hp1229

 

I suppose the threat of terrorism is going to be a concern for the rest of time, if we are to continue to focus upon it as much as we do as a species. However, in terms of coverage, one silo could cover a vast area of responsibility, and if the technique were to be even eighty percent as effective as I think it could be, then it would save masses of lives, and billions of dollars in property damage, every year more than likely.

It would be a terrible shame if mankind found the arrow that would peirce at the heart of this problem, only to have it taken from his hand by his own foolishness.

Agree. Unfortunately in a less than ideal world, everything is politicized...atleast it seems that way these days in the US.

I would tend to rule out high explosives or daisy cutters for dissipating a tornado...because of the threat of collateral damage to civilian populations. In some instances.. firefighters fight fire with fire --- by cutting off the source of fuel to a major forest fire by starting another fire. I would feel that fighting wind [tornado] with wind [ hypersonic clockwise rotation] would be sufficient in cutting off the warm moist counterclockwise winds that fuel a tornado.

I propose...not only 1 drone that is capable of hypersonic speeds...but maybe several hypersonic drones that would rotate in a clockwise around the funnel vortex, in the vicinity where the southern warm moist winds fuel the counterclockwise direction of a tornado.

Cheers,

Erno86

reply to post by TrueBrit


Oh it was positive, i found it hilarious but intriguing at the same time.

Pardon me, but I really do not think this fits in the science and technology forum.
Can we get it moved?

M.

Im no expert but a tornado forms by a layer of cold air flowing over warm air and this causes the vortex as it rises or vice versa.

Solution.....either take the warm air or cold air and remove it.

1) Haarp could heat the area disrupting it.

2) a Freeze bomb to detonate in the air...(dont know if possible)

either way, remove one element or change that balance and you remove the tornado.

reply to post by Moshpet


Care to clarify exactly why it is that this thread doesnt fit within the framework of Science and Technology? The OP has requested discussion on the topic of how we might apply ourselves to the subject of mitigating the danger posed by tornado events. Thier idea involves utilising technology from hypothetical alien species, which is somewhat of an obscure angle from which to approach it, but the thread offers us the oppertunity to actually examine the problem in general.

Any solution to tornado danger, will end up involving some pretty sophisticated science, and some fairly heavy technology. Understanding thermodynamics, and the ability to use technology to bring any potential solution to bare, are key to saving lives in this scenario. Therefore I cannot see where you are coming from.

Due to the horrendous toll that tornado's inflict on civilian and animal population's...is there a technology available from other advanced civilizations, that live on other star systems in our universe, that have the capability of diffusing tornadic funnel rotation?

When the OP starts with asking if there is an alien technology "that live on other star systems in our universe," it clearly indicates to me that real science and technology is not likely to be discussed.

While there may be a 'non-zero' chance of intelligent life out in the universe, expecting them to come in and 'save the day' with miracle technologies, is pretty much ludacris.

Which is why I was asking it this thread would be better placed elsewhere.

--------------

Also it's one thing to snuff a burning oil well with an explosion of a few hundred pounds of explosives, where an oil well may have a source of maybe 2 foot in diameter; it is another thing to ramp that amount up to a level that could affect a 2-2.5 mile diameter tornado. Might as well just nuke the city you are trying to save. Not to mention the air currents that form the tornado are miles above the earth, so you would have to have massive explosion way up in the sky across the whole of the rotational impetuous. Add in the problem of the explosion also crushing the city/landscape underneath via the blast pressure wave. Not to mention the likelihood of the rotational forced reforming, after the fact.

M.

While the ideas proposed might hinder or halt the immediate formation of a specific tornado, they do nothing to resolve the conditions that gave rise to the formation in the first place. And many would actually potentially cause more damage than the tornado itself would, which is the crux of the problem when trying to actually fight them.

Arming all towns, etc with explosive devices would be, at best, irresponsible. Whether they be missiles or what have you. The explosives would cause more damage than what they were designed to prevent (in most cases) and it would leave things open to too many scenarios where they could just end up being used to hurt or threaten people (terrorism, etc) I'm not sure how the rest of the world would feel about the essential militarization of our entire country either.

I see counterclockwise rotation mentioned several times, but one has to keep in mind that tornadoes do not always follow this cyclonic pattern. (and they generally rotate clockwise in the southern hemisphere - just like water going down the drain) So any method that attempts to exploit the airflow in the opposite direction needs to be capable of doing both.

A theoretical ultra highspeed aircraft flying in the anti direction would be very ineffective in this. You would need a plane that could simultaneously fly at incredible speed, but have such outrageous drag to force the air in the direction you wanted at the same time. The more drag you give this aircraft, the higher the difficulty and the more power you would need to get it to the speed you wanted. Which would only hinder the airflow of the forming tornado and do nothing about the temperature or pressure imbalances that caused the formation in the first place. Not to mention the fact that these things form so quickly, you'd never be able to have this plane ready for the formation and in position to begin with.

A more plausible use of planes that is not only more feasible, but possibly more effective, would be several super sonic aircraft that would streak past the tornado at just the right timing so the sonic booms would rip it to shreds.

However, all of this aside, most tornadoes are lucky to last more than just a few minutes if not seconds. Which makes any sort of deployment against them impossible.

Or you could fly through it, dumping massive quantities of baby diaper superabsorbent gel into it.

It would leave goo everywhere, but it degrades eventually.