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I heard recently CERN found a particle that travels faster than light
Originally posted by neoholographic
reply to post by yampa
First off, you haven't cited one paper or published article that refutes anything I've said. You made the claim that experiments carried out in 2008 and 2010 had all of these issues and you listed 2 people talking on a message board to try to refute it. I listed the question from that site, which you didn't do and it didn't refute anything.
"We've been approaching the point at which the loopholes will be closed for the past few years, and it's almost guaranteed we'll pass it soon. – Peter Shor Feb 2
I don't follow your logic.
Originally posted by neoholographic
One problem here is, people are thinking Bob can't know the outcome so Alice can only send Bob random numbers.
This is true, if you treat this like quantum computing. In quantum computing, you do calculations based on superposition. In this type of communication, it depends on measured states.
If I were to say spin up/spin down = 1 and spin down/spin up = 0 and both states were separate calculations, then you would just be sending random information.
IN THIS CASE, BOTH STATES ARE 1 CALCULATION.
So Bob doesn't need to know what state the particle is in because ALL STATES = the same thing.
So spin up/spin down and spin down/spin up = 10 which equals a D. The only thing Bob would see is a D no matter what state the entangled particle pair is in.
The experiments are getting better every year, and all that was needed to close these loopholes is to have a large enough distance separation and to increase the efficiency of your detectors and your photon transmission high enough. Previously, with large enough separation to close the locality loophole, the photon loss was too large to avoid the detection loophole. We've been approaching the point at which the loopholes will be closed for the past few years, and it's almost guaranteed we'll pass it soon. – Peter Shor
I understand entanglement pretty well though not as well as the physicists who study it.
Originally posted by neoholographic
You keep saying you don't understand but what is it you don't understand? Do you understand entanglement? I'm trying to understand where your coming from.
If I send you 1 D, then meet me on 10th Street. If I send 2 D's, meet me at the Mall and if I send 3 D's then I'm not going.
In the case of quantum entangled particles you know the state of the both entangled particles which was determined faster than the speed of light, but since this state was random, no communication took place.
If you're at the receiving end, how do you know if anything at all was even sent?
Originally posted by neoholographic
Say you had 3 channels, it will look like this:
You have a entangled particle pair in one channel that is spin up/spin down = 1 and spin down/spin up = 0. So 10 =D.
In the second channel, you have another entangled pair. Spin up/spin down = 0 and spin down/spin up = 1. So 01 = A.
In the 3rd channel, you have another entangled pair. Spin up/spin down = 1 and spin down/spin up = 1. So 11 = N.
So 100111 = DAN.
Originally posted by neoholographic
You have a entangled particle pair in one channel that is spin up/spin down = 1 and spin down/spin up = 0. So 10 =D.
Originally posted by yampa "when the CERN FTL neutrino experiment broke, it was the biggest story in the world for weeks? (until it was shown the scientists had made measurement/math mistakes)."
Originally posted by RoScoLaz
Originally posted by yampa "when the CERN FTL neutrino experiment broke, it was the biggest story in the world for weeks? (until it was shown the scientists had made measurement/math mistakes)."
quite a 'mistake' for such high-minded scientists, as a group, to have made.
Originally posted by happykat39
Originally posted by RoScoLaz
Originally posted by yampa "when the CERN FTL neutrino experiment broke, it was the biggest story in the world for weeks? (until it was shown the scientists had made measurement/math mistakes)."
quite a 'mistake' for such high-minded scientists, as a group, to have made.
Actually, the CERN scientists didn't make the mistake. It was made by the group running the neutrino experiment about 700 miles away and being fed neutrinos through the earth from CERN. It turned out that one of their timing devices was not properly calibrated due to a poor connection in one of the connectors. When they found the bad connection and repaired it everything went back to normal.
What he seems to be suggesting is, if the sender sends anything on channel 1 it's a D. So, the spin state doesn't matter, either spin state will be considered a "D" on channel 1.
Originally posted by alfa1
But the sticking point is that you dont know what the state is going to be until you untangle them.
You dont know if its going to be spin up/down or the other way around until you've already done it.
Are you going to send a "D" or an "A"?
You wont know until its sent.
In your scenario, Bob observes the entangled particle. It may or may not have been observed on the other end, if he has no information from the other end, so how does his observation tell him anything?
Originally posted by neoholographic
The only way Bob is uncertain as to what measurement will occur is if the measurements are assigned more than 1 bit of information.