Religious Trauma Syndrome: How Some Organized Religion Leads to Mental Health Problems

How about this study:

"John Bartkowski, a Mississippi State University sociologist and his colleagues asked the parents and teachers of more than 16,000 kids, most of them first-graders, to rate how much self control they believed the kids had, how often they exhibited poor or unhappy behavior and how well they respected and worked with their peers."

"Bartkowski thinks religion can be good for kids for three reasons. First, religious networks provide social support to parents, he said, and this can improve their parenting skills. Children who are brought into such networks and hear parental messages reinforced by other adults may also “take more to heart the messages that they get in the home,” he said."

www.foxnews.com...

reply to post by Daughter2


It has nothing to do with 'limiting religious freedom'!!! It has to do with child abuse.

You want me to prove somehow that it's 'not about limiting religious freedom'? Really? The whole thread is on a completely different subject.
It's about HOW KIDS ARE HARMED by strict, rigid, punitive, degrading dogma.


EDIT:
Oh, I see. Fox News. I suppose you are a huge Glenn Beck fan, and a Rachel Maddow [sp?) hater, too. Right? Correct me if I'm wrong. Just trying to wrap my head around your thinking.

There's been plenty of threads about not liking/believing in organized religion.

What's different about yours is you want to try to make your OPINION into a scientific fact.

First, this shrink is not basing her conclusion on even a bad scientific study. She talked to a few people who didn't like their religion. She is using these experiences along with her beliefs and trying to turn it into a scientific fact.

reply to post by AceWombat04

But I guess that's what I was getting at. Is this a distinct syndrome covered by DSM axes and symptomatic criteria? Or is it a constellation of other already established syndromes or disorders, but with a specific etiology based solely in how it develops?

It's not got a code in the DSM Axes and Differential criteria yet, no (as far as I know).
Nevertheless, it seems to be a distinct syndrome.

reply to post by Daughter2

First, this shrink is not basing her conclusion on even a bad scientific study. She talked to a few people who didn't like their religion. She is using these experiences along with her beliefs and trying to turn it into a scientific fact.

Whatever :shk: You just don't want to see it, or get it.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by AceWombat04

 

But I guess that's what I was getting at. Is this a distinct syndrome covered by DSM axes and symptomatic criteria? Or is it a constellation of other already established syndromes or disorders, but with a specific etiology based solely in how it develops?

It's not got a code in the DSM Axes and Differential criteria yet, no (as far as I know).
Nevertheless, it seems to be a distinct syndrome.

Ah, okay. Thanks. That's what I wasn't clear on. So I guess this would be classified as an emerging syndrome, then. One that warrants further study and long term analysis. I definitely agree that it is a dynamic that happens, as I've witnessed it in people I care for very deeply. How the psychiatric community will end up classifying it is anyone's guess, but that doesn't mean people don't need care in the interim as can best be provided.

Peace.

*Double post due to finger twitch on the Post button lol*

Apologies (mods please delete if possible.)

Peace.

reply to post by wildtimes


Ok, alternative view lens here...may help for those not aware of my background on this to read my other reply, thnk on page four...Anyhoo,

Ah, ok., I get what you are saying in regards to the concerns, many legit, on the religious harms, and child abuse. granted, it is Yes, evident that in numerous religions, due to Patriarchal and Hierarchal CONTROLS fueled with FEAR and TERROR cult teachings Along with Love Bombing, which is what ALL CULTS DO, be they religious or Secular, yes children AND women, yes I dare will go there, are horrifically abused. but, BUT,

The other, sorry cant recall name, just that Dorothy shoes avatar, anyhow, She or He is absolutley correct as well. because there IS a political agenda or engineering agenda right as we speak, of the Elitist scientist circles who yes, want to demonize all Western religions (they tend to leave Islam alone) and YES they damn sure will USE this as a means of further tearing up the core nuclear family and community, because they are after STATISM, under a Global order. I know this for a fact, because the advocacy I work in, is on this Very issue, particulaly the Horrific abuses by yes Psychiatry and Courts that are Send g children to their deaths by court order, often in family courts, and religious values, is one of the "claims" they use to label parents, MOTHERS ESPECIALLY, who are fightingn to protect their children from KNOWN sex ABUSERS and domestic violence. fact...and these cases are becoming EPIDEMIC. Some of the human right abuses yes are fueled by MRAs, but a Lot of them, particularly against VICTIMS, are being fueled by one other than liberal psychiatry itself. of course, Profit from children as sex commodities is the game but there is a sinister Nazi Eugenics like programming at work, therefore,

Dorothy's shoes fears, are not unfounded. not in the least. Which is why I said earlier, be Very Leary, of the Agendas out there, especially now. see what is also interesting, is not only did I spend years undoing the damage from RA, Religion and the family mess/generational, I myself got into the political, the very far left kind. So, uh, Yes, don't think for a minute that there isn't an agenda, there damn sure is, and it's NOT for the Welfare of the Children, LOL, hardly. So odd that, as an abused child and by by abuse, I mean ritually forced starvation, psychological abuse, medical abuse...that's all prior to six years of age, what I can remember, and I'm still dealing, I'm fifty #ing years old now, there is way more...was I a monarch,

Hell if I know, don't remember that, lots I don't remember, but I remember the "speech" therapy, DC back in the sixties, oh and the paranormal light image of Venus on the wall, again, in DC. But I won't fill I gaps with the maybes, what I remember I remember, that and dreams, that yes strange, have keywords and meanings...those didn't come till years later, in my forties, but anyhow...I've seen the abuse in Religion, in State care (children's home) in Politics esp the socialists and communist parties, and in the deep south. IT'S ALL THE SAME...methodologies, all of it. Why people separate them, I have no idea Really, it's all about means to an end. And WE are the means. Simply put. So yes, people have good reason to be concerned when clever Elitists and think tanks (who also DESIGNED RELIGION) decide, to turn the tables and socially engineer and demonize religion, to yes, get their Hands onto the Children. I'll be blunt, the Dr Mengele for CPS is just the twin demon of the High Priest bishop raping ole billy...KID YOU NOT. And Both, love to recruit and abuse Children n the system...think not, Do some studies on the abuses of Chilfpdren and Force drugging and rape and using children as Lab rats, in the Penal system. Both utilized by RELIGION and SECULAR BEHAVIOR CONTROLS. FACT.

SeebIm one of the Lucky ones, I'm alive to tell and warn...for now at least, and Yes, the system has indeed come after me to shut me up. me and others like me...if they can't # us up, they distract, or Label us. Etc. easy to do...the engineers, last thing they epwant, is for you to Question their motives.

one here earlier said, that psychiatry unlike religion has ethics boards. LOL LOL LOL LOL. Yea...OK, they as good as,

Sugar in a cavity.

Again, I warn, be very Leary. I yes, will loudly say, religion is a hierarchal Pyramid system of Patriarchal control that is more often than nought, ABUSIVE. BUT SO IS PSYCHIATRY...PSYCHE, means the SOUL. Both are about Mind Binding and Control, Behavior mod and control, Especially through Grooming and Fear and Guilt. Both are EXTREMELY MISOGYNIST. BOTH treat child rape as some MALE ENTITLEMENT. (or make excuses for, neigpther give a damn about a child's right to Consent). And BOTH

Are obsessed with

POWER over the MASSES, SLAVES, never forget that.

reply to post by ThreeBears


On another note, bear with me, it's relevant...part of the taking myself back, from the craziness over the years, was researching for answers, including investigating my families past. The Diamond business (underworld) that grandad was involved in, though I don't know all the details, I do know, confirmed, that he did "deals" with Senators back in his day. as to what that involved...have not a clue. But numerous odd events in my life, like how numerous men relationships ALL HAD LINKS SOMEHOW TO gold, gambling or mining...well, it was worth studying. So, You, the OP, began this thread in regards to the Pentecostals and the child abuses in Africa. that movement is part of the Dominionist Cult, which is a political movement in its own right.

But, now Heres the laughable part. The Dominionists in Africa, are working Right along side the Political and Corporate interests, one Major one being.....

BIG PHARMA, oh yea baby, for those Ethnic cleanings and Wars to clear out old enemies for LAND GRABS, for none other than

MINING. Yes, do sme Research on ole Big Pharma (Nazis, Operation Paperclip hmmm, Eugenics) and the Mega $$$$$$$$$$$$ investments for mining Minerals and elements, used in nine other than Psychotropic drugs, that chemically Lobotomize AND, so many just So neglect this little gem,

Sterilize entire generations of, CHILDREN. Yep, How you say? Two words, Chemical FGMs. See most don't read the tiny "side effects" of these drugs, ALL OF THEM, that include, Permanent sexual dysfunction, including no arousal, etc., which over time, add to that OTHER organ and brain failure, causes Sterility. now, on adults, this may not be that big of a deal, but now, we have big ole pharma and dr Mengele industry, pumping Foster kids with a Cocktail of these drugs...who by the time they are adult, will yes, be Permantly sterilized. Now if That isn't EUGENICS, what is? But to top that off, do some research, mining, huge investments for big pharma, just like military (uranium, ores, etc) and why the two, both under Feds.global boys...so, if you Think for a minute that ole pharma and the RICO bunch, lol, are some ethical oh so concerned over these abused children, HA, think again...they are Working with these Dominion groups and their Genocides in part, to clear out land, harvest slaves to mine (children even) and to control population While making a Profit.

Look at the picture behind the picture, it's amazing, the web they weave...

Originally posted by BlueMule
"Religion is a defense against the experience of God." -Carl Jung

This is what happens when a religion looses its connection to mysticism. It becomes an empty, traumatic, stale defense mechanism against the genuine experience of numinous liminality.

edit on 27-3-2013 by BlueMule because: (no reason given)

Exactly. Organized religion is a corrupted, empty, poisonous shell of the original teachings. Taking the bible literally is beyond idiotic and belongs to the dark ages. I cannot express my pity for the bible thumpers.

I think any kind of religious fanaticism is close to mental psychosis.

reply to post by wildtimes

I read your initial post. No mention of children in it .
I had to go back and see where the heck you mention children in the initial post . Finally found it through a wall of texts
"As Journalist Janet Heimlich has documented in, Breaking Their Will; Shedding Light on Religious Child Maltreatment, Bible-based religious groups that emphasize patriarchal authority in family structure and use harsh parenting methods can be destructive. "
Hardly the major part of the post . I have addressed the issue of religion , just as your wall of texts does . The children part is a very specific point that is a reference for added reading if one chooses to go to the link .

reply to post by ThreeBears

These are interesting points. I'm not saying you are lying, but can you point out where to begin "researching" with a link or two?

What you describe sounds horrific, and I don't doubt that I am naive -- completely ignorant -- of those things happening. Sounds like you lived through hell, and I'm sorry for it.

That said, while your warning is noted, the reasons I put this post up were purely for the benefit of those kids. I'm not some elite engineer trying to deceive or sterilize or lobotomize anyone.

reply to post by Anusuia

You're trolling, and I'm out of chewy treats. If you don't like to read "wall of text" OPs that inform and cover an issue, then don't read them! No one asked you to come here and start insulting my posting style.

My point, as I said in the OP's conclusion was to provide the information and bring the issue to light. I succeeded. If you don't like it, tough.

OH, and Dorothy's shoes (Daughter2) is the one complaining about the rights of parents to instill whatever religious thinking they want into their kids. You had trouble finding the super-white highlighted link that pops right off the page? Hmmm. Reading skills lacking, or gimpy attention span? Or maybe just knee-jerk retaliation?

For Daughter2, the issue was about raising children. Therefore my responses to her are centered on the treatment-of-children part of it (which no one denies).

The article, though should be considered in light of ANY PERSON of ANY AGE, including "born again" adults, or any people getting sucked into a cult religion that teaches them NOT TO TRUST THEMSELVES.

I'm absolutely certain you're one of the people who would drop dead before you'd actually look at ALL THE LINKS and sources and spend some time trying to find out what they're talking about. Suit yourself, then, it's your education at risk, not mine.

reply to post by Anusuia


This little paragraph you no doubt missed: so here'a a postcard size reply just for YOU!

Mental health in this country is something that needs to be addressed. And illness and trauma need to be treated, or better yet, PREVENTED. That means finding the root causes and identifying them properly, rather than just pulling victims out of the rapids, drying them off and giving them a blanket and a pat on the head and sending them on their way, we need to STOP THE PEOPLE throwing them off the bridge in the first place!!

The way to do that is education and exposure of the real problems. (And there are plenty of reasons beyond religious trauma.)

Originally posted by Daughter2
Can people be traumatized by religion, sure. They can also be traumatized by schools, football players, work, bosses, co-workers, banks..........AND THERAPISTS.

That is a very good point... In the early '80s I was strongly lobbied by a good friend of mine to go back to school & enter the mental health field. As a result, I was allowed to rub elbows with several professionals during their "off time". It was educational & interesting. Eventually, my wife & I decided that a variety of reasons (including finances) made the idea impractical.

The time I spent as service manager for a local computer company convinced me that I'd made the wise decision. I was the one that only ever dealt with customers who were having problems with their systems & the parallel wasn't lost on me. Spending my work days immersed in the emotional an psychological turmoil of one client after another would probably not have been a good fit for me...

To get to my point, though. I came away from that period with an attitude of caution where parents are being advised to put their kids in counseling... Once that door closes, it is just your kid & someone you don't really know. This is not to say that the majority of therapists are not compassionate professionals who want to help others learn to live happy, well adjusted lives.

There was one guy, though, that I got to know who I think of every time I read of "grief counselors" being provided after a tragedy at a school. This guy had a very abrasive personality and came across as someone who I could picture wearing a t-shirt that said, "I've got my sh*t together. Why don't you?" I can envision a student entering the room and told to take the seat across from his desk. As he is walking around to take his seat he says, "Everybody is born. Everybody dies. Some people die sooner than others." Then as he takes his seat, he pitches a box of Kleenex to the kid and says, "Here, wipe your nose and get over it."

I've advise many over the years to do due diligence before choosing a counselor for their kids...

reply to post by CornShucker

I've advise many over the years to do due diligence before choosing a counselor for their kids...

What you say is correct, and her point is a valid one. I've remarked earlier in the thread that Counselors and Psychiatrists CAN BE DAMAGING.

I left the field entirely after discovering two things:

First, as a practitioner, my empathy and compassion levels were unsuitable, and I was UNABLE to remain distant and disinterested. I could not leave it at work. My heart was breaking for these people's suffering, and it drained me too much - to the point that I was 'unavailable' emotionally to nurture my own family.

Second, as an insider, I was privy to the real agendas of the executive directors, the funding agencies, the duplicity of many people in the field, and the FACT that MANY counselors DO NOT HAVE THEIR * TOGETHER. Many, in fact, are quite damaged themselves. It's my opinion that many of those who do go into the field, do so to PURGE THEIR OWN SUFFERING. Same with religious leaders? You bet.

So, I got out. Said, "I will not continue this." The worst part was how they wanted to insist that outside of the clinical setting, we were "not allowed" to have relationships with the client. Not allowed to accept small gifts like home-made treats or craft art, for example, and were expected to simply SEVER the relationship entirely, with no after-care or follow-up contact permitted at all once the treatment had resolved. So, you get close to someone who is sharing intimate thoughts and secrets with you, to work hard to help them establish goals and to explore options, to make suggestions and help them think it through - and then POOF, you're gone! Forever!

That is crap! That is not humanitarian compassion and trust-building. Neither is preaching hellfire and absolute obedience, or insisting that very questionable ideas are true, or that every human being sucks and deserves to go to hell! If any 'helper' sees the 'client' as DEFECTIVE, STUPID, and UNABLE TO MAKE DECISIONS - therefore needing utter control, they are NOT real helpers. They're control freaks.

ThreeBears has given a story about how abused s/he was by both religious dogma AND psychiatric manipulation. I have never stated that there are no unethical mental health practitioners. There certainly are. There are also unethical religious leaders.

One SHOULD be very, very careful about who to trust with their children. Whether it's a school, a teacher, a counselor, or a preacher. They should be directly INTERVIEWED by prospective 'clients', whether with an eye to submitting their CHILD to whatever treatment, or as an individual counselor for themselves. If their thinking is found to be whacky, makes one uncomfortable, and seems "off" in your gut, then don't walk -- RUN away.

reply to post by Daughter2

"Bartkowski thinks religion can be good for kids for three reasons. First, religious networks provide social support to parents, he said, and this can improve their parenting skills. Children who are brought into such networks and hear parental messages reinforced by other adults may also “take more to heart the messages that they get in the home,” he said."

I'll overlook the foxnews source and address his statement. CERTAINLY THIS IS TRUE, DEPENDING ON WHAT RELIGION IT IS!!!
I have NEVER said abolish ALL RELIGION, nor have I said all therapists (most of whom are not doctors) or psychiatrists (doctors - the only ones who can 'prescribe') or secular teachers of any kind, are awesome. It is very specific religions AND ANY AGENCY that uses a "control by fear and shame method" that I protest.

Can you please try to see that point?

Originally posted by karen61560
reply to post by butcherguy

 

No one should ever ever raise their hand to a child or even another human.

I disagree with the premise that spanking is never justified. Back when I was taking part-time classes at a local university extension, I had a professor whose son built a fire in the middle of her dining room table. (he was 4 years old) She and her husband lived in a condo in a building that housed the families of five other professors at the university. When she told the class of how she sat him down and explained that it wasn't a "good" thing to do and asked him not to do it again I had to struggle to keep my mouth shut. His behavior could easily have, at the least, cost five other families everything they owned in the world and could very easily have cost someone their Life.

IMO, a good spanking was more than justified. In a case like that you are not doing your job as a parent if you don't make d*mned sure it isn't going to happen again...

reply to post by wildtimes


Hey wildtimes – another interesting find.
Didn’t know there was a name for it…but…wouldn’t you know that it was someone from the same “sect” I grew up in…that would coin one.
What a lot of respondents fail to grasp or recognize is…some/many (maybe even – most) of those that would have to deal with issues of this nature did not choose the particular religious flavor… They were born into it…like me.
I was not only born into it…but born into what would equate to “the suicide bomber sect/s”…if the base religion had been Islam.
This is, indeed, brainwashing. My father was extremely proud of how his kids were the best “behaved” (beat the crap out of us for any misstep or perceived misstep…and most especially, if the misstep occurred in a public setting)…and others were always commenting on the same.
To be honest about it, though…all children are “brainwashed” by parents, educational systems and other systems of authority – and – some of it, I believe to be “good” for the child. I didn’t step in front of moving automobiles, or jump off cliffs, or handle snakes by the fangs…etc…
And – to take “the question” further…you have stated numerous times that you believe we need to get rid of this type of “abuse”. Well, honestly – we won’t be rid of it unless/until it is no longer supported by an economic constituency. Legislative acts, MSM outcries and public denunciations from the Educated Elite will only serve to feed one of their more stubborn tenets – “We’re being persecuted! --- And THAT MEANS we’re doing THE RIGHT THING/s!”… It feeds into all their “prophecies of tribulation and/or martyrdom”…
Anyway – tons more to say on the topic… Will continue reading the remainder of the thread, first…
Thanks.

It is at least somewhat relevant to the discussion at hand that psychiatry is a science that holds to atheistic values and has shown a pattern of abuses with regards to religion, as well as sexual abuses and others.

If this does become an object of agreement with the APA, does OP accept the reality that some rogue physicians could use this diagnostic category to perpetrate an abuse against a patient, perhaps even for animosity toward the patient's religion?