I have a possible line on uncatalogued Native American petroglyph/ rock painting site.

Hi everyone, Bryd in particular,
While chatting with a co worker today, I was made aware of a petroglyph/ rock painting site very near where I live that is essentially unkown outside of a small group of individuals, who have no interest in such things.
It is on a large historic ranch at the top of an isolated mountain, and is in danger of being destroyed by a proposed rock quarry.
I am going to try to get legal access to the area and photographicaly document the site. It is highly unlikely that the land owner full scale academic study of the site.
I was told there are a great number of carvings and paintings on rock outcrops and scattered surface lithics along with acorn grind holes.
My source tells me his source has been acessing the area for several years in the course of recreational activities.
Traditional local property owners have been hesitant to reveal such locations due to the heavy handed policies of state government with such sites.
My sources source has a cordial relationship with the ranch hands and I hope I can get access to photograph the work at least.
This may take a few months to accomplish as the current weather is not good for the hike up the hill, I am a firm believer in a '" Tread Lightly" philosophy, and am also a firm believer in the rights of a private property holders.
There is also the possibility that the actual landowner is a foreign owned company, whom I have had personal business dealings with in the past, they stuck me for more than $8,0000 in work I did for them that they did not pay for.
If its the case they then I will have no qualms about putting the kybosch on their plans for.the property.
As I find out more I will post accordingly.

reply to post by punkinworks10


Slippery slope that is.

I personally would prefer the site to be left alone by all comers and preserved as is in place

Interesting dilemma though..

It's a very touchy thing I believe. There are new sites located here in Missouri often enough to be an issue and the locations are very closely guarded and usually worked by Academics/Professionals as quickly as possible once found. It's a rush to document before anyone else can find it and basically ruin it whether meaning to or not.

It's just me but if I were out in the woods here and came across something I believe to be old and not just some drunk kids one night playing with pens and markers or something .... I'd tell no one before dropping letters out with all the info I had on it to the Department heads of a few of the top Universities that work in that field.

Personally, I think that's the most likely place to find interested and sympathetic ears who also may have the ability to get something done where it needs to be, especially on a cultural find. That's my opinion.

reply to post by SLAYER69


I am in total agreement on that slayer, but if the land is where I think it is it is is serious danger of destruction, and needs to be documented.
If it is still held by a local land owner I will absolutely respect their rights, but if the foreign owned corporation owns the land I have no qualms about throwing every wrench in their works, they have a history of the worst kinds of capitalistic abuses. Their plan for a "construction materials" quarry is just a thinly veiled end run around federal minning regulations , as the area has all the signs of having gold in deep rock veins, which they will have to take the entire mountain away to reach.
I have a friend on the local planning commision that is trying to keep the project from moving forward, but this corporation is a tens of billions of dollars a year international operation, that seems to.be willing to do what ever it takes to push this project forward.
If it is the case that this corp is the land holder, then the states heavy handed policies might be the best way to stop it..
In any case I will be responsible in my part and keep the actual location secret.
Just like this cave which is not on any map and is the site where local native American lore says they survived the great fire ,flood and cold time of no sun.

reply to post by punkinworks10


I'm extremely interested in this, and yes, I think documenting it is vital. If nothing else, grab the photos and we'll see if we can get them to the Native American Museum in Washington, DC.

My recommendations for photography is to use a digital camera on the highest image quality possible (take extra memory sticks.) Get a GPS reading of the location (also Google Maps location) -- if the site is destroyed, scholars will want to know where it was to tie it in with Native American timelines.

I usually take several angles for each pictograph/petroglyph as well as a distant shot to show the whole panel (if possible). If you can, get friends to go with you and have everyone work on a section. Take tripods or some sort of rest so you can be sure the camera's steady.

(sigh) If it was close, I'd be there in a heartbeat.

Since it isn't, if you CAN get to the site, let's treat it as a real research project... so... GPS location (keep it private but be sure you take multiple readings), Google Earth location, and whatever you can find. Check the entire area -- in general a region with one set of petroglyphs or pictographs will have others within a half mile of them.

And if you're trying to save an area, a better approach (I've been a participant in one of these) is to get it designated as an Important Birding Area. If you would like, I can check my resources and see if I can find some ammunition for your local councilperson to use in stopping that company.

(Whee! Projects!)

reply to post by Byrd


Hi byrd,
Thanks for the advice.
I spoke again with person who told me about it and he thinks getting to the site is not really going to.be a problem , people have been riding mtn bikes in the area for several years now, in fact I might have ridden that trail 25 years ago .
When it dries out I'm going up there with a friend who's a good photographer.
We should be able to get up there in a couple weeks.
I'll see you get the first look.

reply to post by Byrd


I think the quarry has been pretty much nixed now, I also spoke with my friend that's on the planning commision today he says the quarry is dead.

reply to post by punkinworks10




Did you kill it...

couldnt help myself sorry...

Awsome shot if you did...

reply to post by Miccey


No wasn't me,
This project has been in the works for ten years, and has no support locally.

And I'm doing some research to see where an article about these (not giving precise location, but discussing context and describing groups) might be published.

Argh! I hate waiting!

Remember if you do post picture, most cameras' GPS feature will tag the photos with location. You can use any photo editing software to strip this information from the photos. Since privacy is important, keep that in mind if you post anything online! The part of the photo file you need to edit is called the EXIF data - plenty of information if you just search online for EXIF.

Originally posted by tetsuo
Remember if you do post picture, most cameras' GPS feature will tag the photos with location. You can use any photo editing software to strip this information from the photos. Since privacy is important, keep that in mind if you post anything online! The part of the photo file you need to edit is called the EXIF data - plenty of information if you just search online for EXIF.

Right on ,
Thanks for the input,

35 mm slr pre gps

Besides no amateur action here, I have my photo tagging on my phone ALWAYS disabled.

reply to post by punkinworks10


Hey there, are you up here in Montana by chance? I ask because your posted picture looks exactly like our terrain and vegetation up here. I'm an Anthropology/Archaeology student so I'm quite interested in this. There are many sites up here similar to yours. If you are uncomfortable revealing your location feel free to send me a PM.

reply to post by JJRichey


there are quite a few sites here in mt.
I know of one that can be seen from the interstate
I90 just outside of drummond.
Its kind of odd, i have been told it has been researched but
have not found any real info online about it.
The odd part is the glyphs are about 10' above the ground.
So either the land was much different then, or there were some tall dudes.

*lol*

Originally posted by JJRichey
reply to post by punkinworks10

 

Hey there, are you up here in Montana by chance? I ask because your posted picture looks exactly like our terrain and vegetation up here. I'm an Anthropology/Archaeology student so I'm quite interested in this. There are many sites up here similar to yours. If you are uncomfortable revealing your location feel free to send me a PM.

Hi
I am in central cal,
The cave pic is about 70, miles from my location in the sierra nevada, most certainly different flora,what you can't tell is that all the vegetation is poison oak.
Rock art here is reasonably rare, in all my hiking and riding the area, I found lots if habitation sites but only twice rock art. What is interesting it seems only one tribe had a penchant for it and they have left a few wide spread sites.
What is your particular field of interest in anthropology/archeology.
I have decided I need to get out of the hectic world of emergency manufacturing, and go back to school and get an anthropology or archeology or such things.

Is there any more photos of that cave? Does it go in fairly deep?

It all sounds really interesting. Be great to see just one photo, that doesn't reveal the general area too much.

reply to post by eniar

Nope,
That was as close as I was going to get to the entrance, which is a hundred foot drop to the entrance floor.

I was also hiking in my motorcycle gear, so wasn't taking any chances.

Might be good to see if there would be any climbers around willing to take a look, sounds like it'd have some potential for something down there, or just for a thrill to be among the first of modern people to set foot down there.
If I ever had a chance to get to the US, would love to check it out.


As for photos, actually meant, would you ever share those of the petroglyph's here someday?

Just a little update,
Did a little recce of the area, the site is located on top of a ridge, which at first I thought was odd till I did my recce of the area. Sorry, I lapsed into my rally lingo, recce is reconnaissance. But the location had me perplexed as the tops of these ridges and mountains are fairly barren. There are no oak trees(acorn source), little game, and to the unfamilar no water, but actually many of the isolated ridges and mountains have artesian springs.
And when I did my recce I realized something, the site is above the fog line.
In my view it was a winter camp site above, what can be an almost perpetual winter fog.
Ive gotten a good idea of the lay of the land, and in another couple of weeks ill hike up there and get this thing done.