Let's put This To Bed. The Five Worst Shootings Ever Were Not Done By Americans

Originally posted by Xtrozero
You need a background check in America to buy guns

Except at a gun show, as I understand it?

Why have a car that can go over 25 miles per hour? Why have a car with an engine larger than 50 HP, you don't need sharp bumpers...and anyone in London could steal a large truck if they wanted to in the event of a mass killing, just like that guy who stole guns....

My point was that we regulate the more dangerous aspects of anything, why would you not regulate the more dangerous firearms, those being the ones held for no reason, with significant ammo capacity, that are concealable or easily trafficked etc.

You also suggest there is no use for these weapons.... hunting, sports, defense (America is not as tame as lovely little England)

Not at all, we permit weapons such as high powered silenced rifles for hunting and sports. It's just that we regulate it quite heavily, so people like Adam Lanza's family don't have a collection of firearms they had no apparent need for. This reduces the availability of firearms as a result.

Originally posted by Gridrebel
The shooting in Sandy Hook will be counted as the worst shootings in AMERICA. I hope your aren't trying to lessen the horror of this vile and beastly act by comparing it to other country's evil citizen's actions , that would be abysmal. It's horrid, no matter what. Yes, other countries have their massacres but it's apples and oranges brother. When you start comparing and go up the ladder.......hmmmm atomic bombs anyone?

Incorrect.
worst

You know what the country did after this event? They moved on and went about their daily lives.

Sheesh people, get a grip already.

Originally posted by unityemissions
You know what the country did after this event? They moved on and went about their daily lives.

Sheesh people, get a grip already.

So let me get this right, your response to the murder of 20+ children is to say 'just move on and get on with your life'?

Why? If this could have been prevented (and there's lots of signs it could) then why not try and prevent it?

Originally posted by exponent

Originally posted by Xtrozero
Since it seems we have been talking about England as some kind of counter point....what happens in London if the power grid goes out for a few weeks or longer? Do you guys feel any need to prepare for something along those lines or is everything all rosy?

Do you think London hasn't experienced this or something? When the power goes out we'll work together to try and help as many people as possible. Engineers will work on restoring the power. Security services will keep people safe.

This literally happened. I don't really understand your argument.

What if it happens for a long period of time? In the future there will be a good possibility that you will lose power for a good amount of time. ... In America if we lose power for a week then people will be starving since stores maintain about 3 to 5 day supply at best. If we lose power for months it will be dog vs dog long before even a month is up.

Have you ever thought that just maybe America is a different situation than England? We do have 330 million people to your 50 million. Think of 20 million people in LA without food or water....would London be much better?

All we need to do is look back at Katrina to see how even in a very short period of time TSHTF, just think if you were right in the middle of that with nothing.....

I have guns to hunt and I like to sport shoot, but I also have them for maybe that one time in my life I need them. If that event never comes then great, but if it does then I'm ready as best I can be for my family.

I don't plan on government agencies to be there when needed..... call me stupid I guess...

Originally posted by Kryties

Originally posted by HandyDandy

Originally posted by Kryties
The American gun advocacy argument is delusional at best.

The European and Australian argument of "only our overloards have guns" is what is delusional IMO.

I find it completely delusional that the American people think their peashooters are going to protect them against their governments bombs, missiles, tanks, jets and chemicals.

A.

edit on 22/12/2012 by Kryties because: (no reason given)

They used those weapons in iraq up until the withdraw in 2011, and are still using them afghanistan. and yet they still have people running around. shooting, building ieds and,killing people. now don't say that was different. they were using as you put it"peashooters" and the U.S. were using "bombs, missiles,tanks jets." , and in afghanistan, the taliban were allowed to participate in the in the un meeting recently. that is a group that is still classified as a terrorist organization, still using "pea shooters" against bombs, tanks, jets
that has been recognized by the un.

see this about iraq, it's dated July' 12 2012.
Iraq

Let’s look at some case studies. To take a place like Mosul city as an example of the extreme higher end of the risks: the city, which is 10 miles by 10 miles, suffers maybe 40-60 serious reported attacks a month, and probably suffers around a hundred actual attacks a month if unreported incidents are added.

doesn't seem to have made a deference there.

and just google for violence in afghanistan, and pages and pages will come up.

why don't we hear out cry from aussies, brits and candaians, to ban the gun and rpgs over there.

my guess, is they know they can never take the weapons from the goat hearders and poppy barons.

i think they real reason they cry out is, they are just jealous, that the United States still has somewhat managed to hold on our freedom.

why don't they just mind their own business and let us worry with ours.

Originally posted by hounddoghowlie
i think they real reason they cry out is, they are just jealous, that the United States still has somewhat managed to hold on our freedom.

You lost me at this sentence. What a load of ignorant crap.

why don't they just mind their own business and let us worry with ours.

If only the US would do the same.....

Originally posted by exponent

Originally posted by unityemissions
You know what the country did after this event? They moved on and went about their daily lives.

Sheesh people, get a grip already.

So let me get this right, your response to the murder of 20+ children is to say 'just move on and get on with your life'?

Why? If this could have been prevented (and there's lots of signs it could) then why not try and prevent it?

Your logic is terribly flawed.

First, the event happened.

Second, it's pure speculation that this event could have been prevented.

Third, how the hell is it that bitching about these events will cause much change for good?

Makes no damned sense.

Disturbed people exist. Check.

People may or may not choose to utilize community and social support services which may or may not do any good. Check.

What else do you want? There's already metal detectors, armed police officers, and paranoid idiots in a lot of these schools. What did all of that do? Nothing.

You know why? Because where there's a will there's a way.

For some perspective: we've got over 7 billion people on this here rock, and over 150,000 die each and every day. More kids died in a car wreck last year than a mass shooting.

Yes, move on fool.

Originally posted by Kryties
reply to post by HandyDandy

 

How many tyrants have Americans overthrown again? I mean in America, not elsewhere?

Oh that's right....none.

Put up or shut up.

that's because in the past they knew what could happen and stepped down or were voted out. now if they take the guns what do you think they would have done.
oh i know we can be like the goat hearders i posted about earlier.

Originally posted by hounddoghowlie

Originally posted by Kryties
reply to post by HandyDandy

 

How many tyrants have Americans overthrown again? I mean in America, not elsewhere?

Oh that's right....none.

Put up or shut up.

that's because in the past they know what could happen and stepped down or were voted now if they take the guns what you gonna do.
oh i know we can be like the goat hearders i posted about earlier.

More ignorant nonsense. Precisely how is the Patriot Act not an indicator of a tyrannous government for which you scream so loudly to keep your weapons against?

Originally posted by lewman
reply to post by Kryties

 

Come to think about it, we havent had any school shootings in the UK since they banned handguns after Thomas Hamilton shot aload of kids in 1996.

We have had a couple of guys go looney with shotguns etc.. but not killing more than a couple of people.

Yeah you haven't had any school shootings.... but how many people died on 7/7 and how many guns were used?

Fact is, if someone wants to kill a large number of people, there are other ways to do it. Your gun laws still did not prevent mass deaths now did they?

reply to post by MrWendal


How ridiculous. The bombs that caused 7/7 were hidden. Nobody could have stopped them even if everyone was armed to the teeth.

Try again.

Originally posted by exponent

Do you live in America? Then your safety is entirely dictated by your government. From their regulation of consumer goods to their regulation of air travel. They're what protects you from aggressive nations and corporations alike. Do you really think as civilians you'd be able to defeat even the UK for an example? We have warships and modern generation bombers, ICBMs and nuclear weapons. Without your army a civilian militia poses no significant threat.

I agree your ICBM against my rifle is a win for you....lol

You say these things as Governments continue to reduce their militaries. US military is the smallest it has been in 100 years and after Afghanistan is done it will get smaller while China maintains a 600 million strong call up army. Do you think Europe could handle a Chinese invasion, do you think the human race is past such events? What would happen in America if the Chinese invaded and not only faced our smaller army but a civilian population with a few 100 million guns. If the Chinese invaded Europe it would be a repeat of Germany's march from town to town with little or no resistance.

Internal and external wars are not over with and people can be sheep or wolves as it is their choice, and it is obvious the choice that England has made.

Originally posted by Xtrozero
What if it happens for a long period of time? In the future there will be a good possibility that you will lose power for a good amount of time. ... In America if we lose power for a week then people will be starving since stores maintain about 3 to 5 day supply at best. If we lose power for months it will be dog vs dog long before even a month is up.

Remember what happened in London? It didn't just last a week or two. Yes there'll be food riots, no having a gun won't help you much as everyone else will have one.

What is with this bizarre delusion about firearms somehow making you safer?

Have you ever thought that just maybe America is a different situation than England? We do have 330 million people to your 50 million. Think of 20 million people in LA without food or water....would London be much better?

No? How would having a gun bring you food and water? The people who have this food and water would also have guns.

I have guns to hunt and I like to sport shoot, but I also have them for maybe that one time in my life I need them. If that event never comes then great, but if it does then I'm ready as best I can be for my family.

I don't plan on government agencies to be there when needed..... call me stupid I guess...

I find it funny that I was accused of paranoia. What's wrong with a well secured shotgun with limited ammunition? That's legal in both our countries but doesn't have much gang use and can't be concealed easily. It's about reducing the amount of firearms until they aren't required in normal life, not eliminating them entirely.

Originally posted by Kryties

Originally posted by hounddoghowlie
i think they real reason they cry out is, they are just jealous, that the United States still has somewhat managed to hold on our freedom.

You lost me at this sentence. What a load of ignorant crap.

why don't they just mind their own business and let us worry with ours.

If only the US would do the same.....

Well said, hitting the nail right on the head.

Freedom for Americans these days also comes with the freedom to be shot. That just doesn't register with most, and the ignorant bleating about rights completely overshadows the reality of how a country can unknowingly destroy itself from the inside with what it believes made it (once) strong.

Originally posted by exponent
So let me get this right, your response to the murder of 20+ children is to say 'just move on and get on with your life'?

Why? If this could have been prevented (and there's lots of signs it could) then why not try and prevent it?

Much can be done...why was there zero protection at that school? Why is it at other schools across America that have protection in place do not see these events? We also need more control over storage of guns. I would love to see safes as mandatory to owning a gun, and just like the schools that do have protection already in place, responsible gun owners do already lock up their guns.

A situation where some lady has all these guns in a house with a deranged/mentally handicap son is just stupid, that all the gun laws in the world short of having ZERO guns in the general population would not cure.

Originally posted by Xtrozero
Do you think Europe could handle a Chinese invasion

Probably. China's army is vast in number but hardly a renowned fighting force. There are many nuclear powers within the EU and that alone would stop significant land incursion.

do you think the human race is past such events?

It's hard to say. I feel Europe is past another world war. America I'm not so sure about. China clearly knows where the money lies.

What would happen in America if the Chinese invaded and not only faced our smaller army but a civilian population with a few 100 million guns. If the Chinese invaded Europe it would be a repeat of Germany's march from town to town with little or no resistance.

This is just nonsense, what difference would a firearm per person make to an invading army? If you wanted to resist to the last man perhaps, but shell your town for a week and the vast majority of people would pile those guns up outside of town and surrender.

This is the reality of war, it's brutal, bloody and guns become a commodity with little value when you're facing mortars, artillery, tanks etc.

Internal and external wars are not over with and people can be sheep or wolves as it is their choice, and it is obvious the choice that England has made.

Such an arrogant position to take, yet England has seen its share of war. America is a land that does not know invasion and hardship.

Originally posted by Kryties
reply to post by MrWendal

 

How ridiculous. The bombs that caused 7/7 were hidden. Nobody could have stopped them even if everyone was armed to the teeth.

Try again.

And that sir is my point.

Murders will murder with or without a gun.

reply to post by MrWendal


Yes, but exactly what could guns have done to prevent hidden bombs?

Exactly nothing is the answer. Your example is ridiculous.

Why is it that these anti-gun advocates keep calling everyone else nutcases? They are the ones who keep arguing the same points expecting different results. That's the very definition of insanity....

reply to post by Kryties


I never said guns would have prevented it nor have I suggested that.

Again... my point is very simple. Guns are not the problem. A person who wants to kill a large number of people will still find a way to do so. They do not need a gun to do it.