The diminishing Republican brand.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07

Go after the rockefellers and rothschilds?

This is just not realistic. If they were going to give their money to the govt to pay down the debt, they would have already. These people made their fortunes arming both sides of every conflict. Also The Rothschilds and Rockefellers just combined their fortunes recently, and my guess is that it's for keeping the power base of the Totalitarian NWO.

www.telegraph.co.uk... l


You seem to be dreaming up some scenario whereby Obama is going to tax these people in his "Soak the rich socialist redistribution" scheme and suddenly the debt will go down and the problems solved. They are not going to let the govt have their money, and certainly not by edict by the great and powerful Obama. Likely Obama owes his entire political career to these fellows and he will not ask a dime from them(except for show, but I think he made a private deal of some sort with Rothschilds before they dumped BP Oil.)

The GOP is dying because the liberty movement is thriving,they chose this path when they sidelined their only real chance of success Ron Paul

Originally posted by Bilder
The GOP is dying because the liberty movement is thriving,they chose this path when they sidelined their only real chance of success Ron Paul

Not even close.

The "Liberty" movement has been more popular in the past and that didn't do as much damage to the party and their chances as their polices and personalities are doing now.

As much as the Paulsters want the demise if of the GOP to be related to the "rise" of the "liberty" movement, it's not.

EDIT:

In 1980 the LP managed to get over 1.5% of the vote, or .6% more than this year. Considering the huge internerd push, the visibility of Ron Paul, etc., and you'll see just how unpopular the party is.

For comparison in 2000, the Green Party got almost 3x the votes of the LP in 2012 and close to 3% of the vote... people claimed they were going to replaces the Dems etc.

How'd that work out?

The Libertarian Party is not even vaguely popular.

reply to post by marg6043


You're preaching to the choir, ma'am.

Still, it's funny to watch the Republican supporters grasp at straws and act dumbfounded over why their house of cards is slowly collapsing.

It's good theater, even if you believe they're both one and the same (of course!).

Someone on HuffPost seems to agree with me:

The Crazy Base Won't Let the Republican Party Change

In the wake of the election, there's no doubt the Republican Party is capable of making some adjustments to rebrand itself. If nothing else, the party has demonstrated its proclivity for sloganeering and marketing and there are plenty of ways it can adjust its messaging. But it's obvious to anyone paying attention that the base simply won't allow the party to change in any meaningful way.

The base is deeply encased within the twisted, alternate-reality looking glass that the GOP has been constructing throughout the last three decades: a realm of anger, racial resentment, distrust of government, hatred of immigrants and violently anti-choice misogynists and demagogues. The party has deliberately incited these tendencies via the conservative entertainment complex, as David Frum called it on Morning Joe -- AM talk radio, Fox News Channel and the like -- and augmented it with the generous contributions of wealthy financiers who bankroll everything from astroturf campaigns to the bulk-purchasing of every book-length screed by Ann Coulter, Sean Hannity, Michelle Malkin and Glenn Beck.

The problem this creates, of course, is that the Republican Party has been consumed by misinformed idiots with no substantial connection to the real world, and the first post-election PPP poll only serves to amplify this conclusion.

The money quote:

Anyone who thinks the Republicans are capable changing is just as delusional as the secessionists and conspiracy theorists who compose the GOP's base. The far-right entertainment complex is so deeply and inextricably woven into the life-support system of the Republican Party, it's nearly impossible to extract the crazy-cells without killing the host.

www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/bob-cesca/the-crazy-base-wont-let-t_b_2251945.html

More self-destruction:

‘Purged’ House GOPers Seek Answers From Boehner

livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/purged-house-gopers-seek-answers-from-boehner?m=1

Originally posted by Bilder
The GOP is dying because the liberty movement is thriving,they chose this path when they sidelined their only real chance of success Ron Paul

You know, I had to think about what you said here for a moment....but you're exactly right. It's insightful from an Australian on our system, if your location tag is accurate but I'd say it's right.

I had faith in the GOP as the alternative to the DNC until seeing what they did to Paul and how they had to win at any and all costs within the fight for who was nominated. Now, I'll tell you... as much as there were precincts absurdly reporting 99-100% Obama votes, I also recall the one voting machine video recorded as rigged...being rigged for Romney. Oh the tangled web they weave.....and the moment I can see a viable 3rd option, I'm in. No question.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000

Originally posted by Bilder
The GOP is dying because the liberty movement is thriving,they chose this path when they sidelined their only real chance of success Ron Paul

You know, I had to think about what you said here for a moment....but you're exactly right. It's insightful from an Australian on our system, if your location tag is accurate but I'd say it's right.

I had faith in the GOP as the alternative to the DNC until seeing what they did to Paul and how they had to win at any and all costs within the fight for who was nominated. Now, I'll tell you... as much as there were precincts absurdly reporting 99-100% Obama votes, I also recall the one voting machine video recorded as rigged...being rigged for Romney. Oh the tangled web they weave.....and the moment I can see a viable 3rd option, I'm in. No question.

As I noted previously, the "liberty" movement peaked back in 1980, when it did significantly better than in 2012.

There's really nothing but wishful thinking from Ron Paul supporters to back up this assertion, that pro-"liberty" voters are responsible in a meaningful way for the GOP's demise.

The GOP's policies and candidates are not matched to the evolving electorate.

And guess what, the "liberty" movement isn't able to get significant female, gay or minority voters.

In other words, the Libertarians Party isn't popular, it's not even as popular as it was 30 years ago. It's not as popular as the Greens were a decade ago.

Blaming the "popularity" of Libertarians is just another delusion, which those on the right cling to to avoid dealing with reality.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

Please watch roger calero from the socialist workers party during his interview at occupy wall street.

Unfortunately both the socialist workers party and socialist party usa only have ballots in several states, whereas the libertarians and greens have ballots in nearly every state.

It would be good for people to know there are insanely better alternatives to this unbelievably corrupt duopoly.

Call me old fashioned and just a stickler for terms and meanings.....but I'll support a Socialist Party about the same day I hear Satan taking deliveries of Ice down below to serve chilled water to the residents.

No offense intended here but that whole concept and mindset, while just fine elsewhere, is as patently unAmerican as anything I can imagine. Years ago, it wouldn't have even been suggested as a joke and some years prior to that? Well........He'd have needed real security around him to stand in a public crowd in America to extol the virtues of a Socialist World.

Not to put too fine a point on it..but I'd hate to be misunderstood on this either...... I met my share of Socialists in Occupy. When, IF..God Forbid..the time comes, I'll be fighting those people with everything I have and every resource I can muster...to the bitter end if need be. What I saw in those people scared me as an American. I know we disagree here...but just trust that my feelings run as deep or much deeper than yours...equal at best. I'll NEVER be changed on my feelings of Socialist ANYTHING in the United States.

Other countries may do whatever they like. I will fight to maintain a free America to my last breath. (We could debate the meaning of socialism...but I'll pass there too. Cuba, North Korea, China, The Soviet Union and East Europe....these are/were Socialism.) I saw them with all the horror and detail I needed to, to see the inherent EVIL in Socialism as MAN deems to impose it upon others. North Europe and Scandinavia is a fluke and an aberration on Earth. I'm happy the system does work for them there.

(My bad entirely if I misread you... Socialism in *ANY* form WHATSOEVER with America in the same breath is one of those things that at this point? Brings an immediate, visceral and overwhelming response out of me.)

edit on 7-12-2012 by Wrabbit2000 because: dropped a couple lines to tone it down.

Really? What is it about your capitalist utopia that you absolutely love about america? Where exactly is the freedom in the democrats and republicans playing bondage games with the american people? What exactly is to love about it? What is to love about wall street holding america and the world hostage, while people like you pretend the globalists are socialists? Is this not deflection?

It seems to me you have been very deeply propagandised and cannot have an honest debate about socialism. And cuba and north korea are loosely called socialist but in reality are communist. Communism is way different than socialism. Canada is mild socialism. Western europe is mild socialism(used to be moderate socialism).

I almost unsunscribed out of this thread because of other important threads but i am glad I picked up on it, to fight this horrible misinformation campaign against a government by the people and for the people. Your capitalist utopia is a bilderberger-illuminati dictatorship. These are your globalist friends. Deal with it if you can. I rather not be a slave to these billionare pigs. Perhaps mccarthy left his stench and too many folks died fighting the wrong war.

The right hand path is the evil path. Capitalism+mainstream religion(versus spiritualism)+imperialism= EVIL I feel sorry for people like you because you are your own worst enemy. Also it helps to know what you are talking about BEFORE you criticise it. Just saying!

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

 

Go after the rockefellers and rothschilds?

This is just not realistic. If they were going to give their money to the govt to pay down the debt, they would have already. These people made their fortunes arming both sides of every conflict. Also The Rothschilds and Rockefellers just combined their fortunes recently, and my guess is that it's for keeping the power base of the Totalitarian NWO.

www.telegraph.co.uk... l


You seem to be dreaming up some scenario whereby Obama is going to tax these people in his "Soak the rich socialist redistribution" scheme and suddenly the debt will go down and the problems solved. They are not going to let the govt have their money, and certainly not by edict by the great and powerful Obama. Likely Obama owes his entire political career to these fellows and he will not ask a dime from them(except for show, but I think he made a private deal of some sort with Rothschilds before they dumped BP Oil.)

edit on 8-12-2012 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)

And that is precisely why society WILL COLLAPSE and world war 3 will likely happen. Too many stupid people voting democrat and republican ALL THE TIME! Candidates in bed with the axis of evil. These people are said to hold hundreds of trillions of dollars. Lets say 100,000,000,000,000 to be conservative here. You are ok with them stealing your tax money and asking for more?

If these people do not pay, then why should anyone else pay? If the law is so tremendously lopsided then why bother have laws in the first place? Rhetorical questions, not directed at you!

reply to post by longlostbrother


Too bad the libertarians and greens have dropped points rather than gain momentum.

The world NEEDS third parties. I hate D and R more than you can imagine!

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
reply to post by longlostbrother

 

Too bad the libertarians and greens have dropped points rather than gain momentum.

The world NEEDS third parties. I hate D and R more than you can imagine!

It's the nature of our system.

If you really want change accept that the form of Democracy we practice is fatally flawed. The US needs PROPORTIONAL representation. This creates LOTS of parties and forces parties to form coalitions, which CAN create a much more representative government.

"First past the post" systems, like in the US, reward 50%+ of the voters and screw the rest...

If you do that and ALSO took the money out of politics, by outlawing all political action group, limit spending to what can be publicly funded, removed barriers to inclusion in public debates... well... the US would be infinity better.

But that would require changing the constitution...

reply to post by EarthCitizen07
You keep referring to a 'Capitalist Utopia' but I haven't seen much in the way of Capitalism practiced in the United States since Reagan left Office. Quite literally. Daddy Bush came with visions of New World Orders and off we've been ever since to conquer the planet, it would seem. I have no satisfaction whatsoever with what we have right now because what we have now has as much in common with capitalism as it does with socialism. I'll grant you that as it stands now. It's a little Social, a little Capital and a good dose of Oligarchy tossed in for good measure. A real witches brew of accidental happening and deliberate planning that I doubt really was intended to turn out this way.

Now I have seen Socialism on paper. On paper, it's just about the best system ever devised by man. That is, in my view as close to factual as anything comes in describing the ideal of it. The reality of it ...Well,, Mao had his little red book and 10's of million dead by it while Lenin and Stalin had their own ways of insuring people saw things their way. Cuba followed and North Korea has too. We can split hairs on Socialism vs Communism but it really is splitting hairs for intent and end result.

Socialism in the real world is what some Northern European nations have today. It works there and more power to them.

Communism is what has almost always happened when that's been tried elsewhere and the human factor comes into play. Now look around you in the United States and tell me what human factors you see to trust THAT well for their 'pure nature' in making North Europe and not the United Socialist States of America? Personally, I'm not sure any ever could do it with a nation as large, diverse and outright stubborn as ours. I sure see no one I trust to even try right now though.

So perhaps just working to get back to Capitalism and out of this nightmare of near corporate/government partnered totalitarianism it's all become now is a good start. America wasn't so bad a place, by comparison, under Reagan and the DEMS before him as well for that matter. Both sides have become warped versions of what the names and definitions are meant to describe, IMO.

reply to post by longlostbrother


What do you want the Republican Party to change to? You want it to become Democrat? You want it to be Green Party? Libertarian? You want it to go Communist? We already have all these different parties now. What are you looking for Republicans to be?
The conservative base wants smaller govt and less taxes. The liberals want bigger govt and more taxes.

Democrats want conservatives to shut up and go away and leave them to bringing socialism to this country. The Tea Party is NOT going away, likely to your dismay.

reply to post by longlostbrother


What do you want the Republican Party to change to? You want it to become Democrat? You want it to be Green Party? Libertarian? You want it to go Communist? We already have all these different parties now. What are you looking for Republicans to be?
The conservative base wants smaller govt and less taxes. The liberals want bigger govt and more taxes.

Democrats want conservatives to shut up and go away and leave them to bringing socialism to this country. The Tea Party is NOT going away, likely to your dismay.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by longlostbrother

 

What do you want the Republican Party to change to? You want it to become Democrat? You want it to be Green Party? Libertarian? You want it to go Communist? We already have all these different parties now. What are you looking for Republicans to be?
The conservative base wants smaller govt and less taxes. The liberals want bigger govt and more taxes.

Democrats want conservatives to shut up and go away and leave them to bringing socialism to this country. The Tea Party is NOT going away, likely to your dismay.

No doubt the Tea Party won't go away. It's corporate owners have invested too much in it to shut it down.

As for the Republican Party, how about it just tries being honest with itself? Imagine that...

As for you're complete misunderstanding of what the liberals want, well, I can only assume that's some sort of brain rot brought on by too many Tea Party blogs...

Liberals are not pro- more governement and taxs, by definition, if the tax rate was 99% and 99% of the country worked for Uncle Same, we wouldn't be agitating for the final one percent.

We want working systems, where we all pay our fair share to all have the basic stuff we all need, and where we collectively chip in to help those in need, the least in our society... I think Jesus Christ had a similarly wacky idea...

Society shouldn't be based on our selfish fears, but on our aspirations.

I aspire to have a country with a healthcare system that's as least as good as France or Germany's. I aspire to have an education system that doesn't lose to china, and Canada and Belgium. I aspire to have a democracy that's representative of the people and helps them achieve their goals, whenever possible. I also aspire to have a governement that doesn't endlessly start wars. A governement that doesn't defund public education, or allow corporate monopolies.

I don't desire ridiculously burdensome taxes or regulations.... nor do any liberals.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


You know I can't pass that up can I?

Reagan was the king of dirty, secret wars. That's what he brought to the table. Oh and lying to congress.

Reagan also raised taxes, and had a HUGE unemployment rate. He also cursed America to suffer from decades of failed fiscal policies, by promoting the lie of "trickle down economics".

Oh wait, you must mean the two Reagan staffers who were convicted of illegally lobbying?

Oh no, you must mean the S&L scandal, brought on by reckless deregulation?

Or was it cheating the debates?

South American massacres?

Iran Contra?


Oh yes please, let's bring back the "good old days" of Reagan..

--

As for the claim that the US is somehow in any way socialist... sigh... do we REALLY have to play this game?

You know that the founding fathers believed in a lot of what you're calling socialism, yes? Where they Socialist?

When Washington forced business owners to pay taxes, at the end of a militia's gun, was he an oligarch?

--

This is what I mean, yet again, about living in a dream. You guys on the right have been lying to yourself about Reagan and Socialism and American History for so long your lies have become, "just another except version of reality".

I mean, I want you all to fail, even more than you already have, so I should be encouraging these delusions, as they suite me, but... you know... it's hard to just watch the endless lies without saying something...

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


I want it to crash and burn while I cheer it on.

Second line.

reply to post by longlostbrother


When you triple down on the crazy this is the result. The Republicans are having a problem with their ideology and the facts on the ground. The country is not where they expected them to be and Romney got destroyed because of it. The upper establishment GOP members are at war with Tea Party and neither one of them are reaching out to the growing segments of minorities or younger voters. They just look and sound like they hate a Black President.So they are willing to do and say anything. Now this may or may not be true but either way they are looking crazy as heck. There is a mass delusion going on with the GOP and they are sticking to their old guns. It makes no sense for them to be answering to Grover about anything! Signing pledges not to raise taxes to that Man-Boy has stripped them of any way to maneuver in negotiations. Its just crazy talk at the end of the day. They need to open the big tent and start letting other people run the party. These old guys are losing the battle. Obama and the Democrats have pretty much won the 2016 election if the Republicans keep this up.

Originally posted by ltheghost
reply to post by longlostbrother

 

When you triple down on the crazy this is the result. The Republicans are having a problem with their ideology and the facts on the ground. The country is not where they expected them to be and Romney got destroyed because of it. The upper establishment GOP members are at war with Tea Party and neither one of them are reaching out to the growing segments of minorities or younger voters. They just look and sound like they hate a Black President.So they are willing to do and say anything. Now this may or may not be true but either way they are looking crazy as heck. There is a mass delusion going on with the GOP and they are sticking to their old guns. It makes no sense for them to be answering to Grover about anything! Signing pledges not to raise taxes to that Man-Boy has stripped them of any way to maneuver in negotiations. Its just crazy talk at the end of the day. They need to open the big tent and start letting other people run the party. These old guys are losing the battle.


Obama and the Democrats have pretty much won the 2016 election if the Republicans keep this up.

And beyond..

The sad truth is that the GOP should've fought the insanity of the Tea Party, but instead coopted it and tried to rebrand themselves as, "the little guy" trying to stop the mean ol' big government.

Again I say, let them continue with this delusion - long may it last...

Another year and a half of them playing ridiculous political and obstructionist games and it'll be a Democrat Congress and Senate and Presidency... and then some ACTUAL work can be done...