Power (Freedom) vs Acceptance - Being in the "Now" or breaking one's will!?

reply to post by Itisnowagain


If people are being destructing, and are planning to come for you, you would be enjoying "now" and it would probably be too late when they get to you.

It would be nice to not think and enjoy now, but imagine if others are thinking and coming up with plans to control and actually putting them to action NOW - is it good to just block that out and be silent of now?

You say there is no "other" there is only "this". Well "this" body will feel pain if another "body" is causing harm to it...

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

If people are being destructing, and are planning to come for you, you would be enjoying "now" and it would probably be too late when they get to you.

It would be nice to not think and enjoy now, but imagine if others are thinking and coming up with plans to control and actually putting them to action NOW - is it good to just block that out and be silent of now?

'When' would you be aware that they are coming for you?
Could or would you beable to anything until you are aware of something happening?
Or are we talking proper paranoia?
'Imagine' if others are thinking this or that.........

reply to post by arpgme


Imagining this or that is making images that are not true. The image (that is not true) is seen by the mind and then it has something to work with - it opposes 'what is'. Now we have two images, the real one (reality) and the one formed in the mind. Great. Now we can have conflict and division. Angels and demons. Good and bad. Goals and time.
And a sense of becoming instead of being.
The 'me sense' is trying in time to be what it already is - wholeness.

Believing in the imaginings and living in them is what hurts, that is the suffering, because it conflicts with 'what is' but this is rarely recognized. Mind made suffering can be elliminated.
See with the eyes and hear with the ears the true image that is always here as now.
Delightful presence.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


What if you were told that "they" were on their way to get you? Would you believe in time then? Would you not act as an EFFECT due to the CAUSE of the circumstances?

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

What if you were told that "they" were on their way to get you? Would you believe in time then? Would you not act as an EFFECT due to the CAUSE of the circumstances?

Life is happening now and action would take place now. It all happens presently in (your/the/thou) and as presence.
Is there a 'you' separate from now?

You are where it all takes place.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


But the fact that is, there is "apparently" this body and another, and if another body punches this body , it would hurt, suffering and pain is felt regardless of if we are actually our emotions or not. And to live such a life... ouch...

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

But the fact that is, there is "apparently" this body and another, and if another body punches this body , it would hurt, suffering and pain is felt regardless of if we are actually our emotions or not. And to live such a life... ouch...

Feelings are felt in the moment. If there is pain action happens.
But you are imagining when you say 'if another punches', 'it would hurt'. It is a story in time that the mind scares you with. It is 'not' happening now.

The mind loves to tell stories about what might happen, what could happen, what will happen. How does the mind know what will happen? Have you noticed it doesn't really know what it is talking about? It is confused and scared. It's beliefs about what could, or should happen is just irritating noise that you have to listen to, it moans and complains and is never happy with you or the world.
This incessant judge makes your body lifeless because it sucks the blood out of the body and delivers its full attention on the mind.

This is aliveness. But humans live elsewhere and elsewhen. Lost in thought - lost in time. The life is not felt by the mind which seeks elsewhere and in time. Life is felt here and now in the body.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


So how do you do it? What thoughts are going on in your mind? And since all is one, what do you think when you see another person? "This is also a part of me" or what?

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

So how do you do it? What thoughts are going on in your mind? And since all is one, what do you think when you see another person? "This is also a part of me" or what?

No thinking is required unless i need to add something up. It all happens spontaneously. The mouth opens and it all works very well now.
When there was a 'me' trying to do it, it didn't work at all well.
I don't do it - it all just happens.

Originally posted by arpgme
And since all is one, what do you think when you see another person? "This is also a part of me" or what?

The experience is one. I don't encounter 'other' (people). This is happening and that's that. It all just happens.
Action does not stop.

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

And since all is one, what do you think when you see another person? "This is also a part of me" or what?

It is the thought of a 'you' and a 'me' that causes the fear that humans contend with. The 'me' and 'other than than me' is the conflict, the division.
You will only know this - that is happening - this experience. Yet the mind speaks of 'other'.
This is happening, just this - nothing more.
Know it for sure and there will be a relaxation into boudlessness.

Western freedom reminds m of freedom of a sheep to eating all the grass it can. (suppose that the grass is limited and there are other sheep ,too.)

The sheep is free , but it is just self centered.

reply to post by mideast


When I am talking about freedom, I mean others not controlling another human being, like they are the person's master or something... If we have free-will we should be able to use it (as long as we aren't stopping another's free-will to do what they want)...

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To me, your questions (OP) request something that cannot be done: freeing you; that is, one is not capable of "freeing" another.
You ask "What do you think about these two paths?" I ask, why does it matter what we think?

Are you going to free us from our suffering (which would certainly exist if we were to perceive the problem which you perceive)? Are you going to reason, through Q&A, why our responses are correct, and thus helping you to pick out the path which you must take?
What will that path lead you to? Your freedom [from suffering]?
In case you think the latter scenario is possible, would that then imply that we are able to free you?
We can only point you to a certain direction, hopefully that direction is truly the way to go to free yourself. Then that would mean, the one who is suggesting you take that path already knows that such path is freedom. How would they know? Are they free-have they gone through that path to verify? It would seem that they are free (or at least they want us to believe this), if they have tasked their self with pointing you to your freedom. You can only trust that they really do know the way, and that your path will lead you to the same freedom that they have obtained...

What does the path have to include?

First of all, feeling enslaved has to do with you enslaving yourself.
Or are we your captors, and is it so that only we are able to free you?
So who is your captor, yourself or us? If you are the only one enslaving yourself, why leave the matter of your freedom to somebody else who would not have the "key", the very key you withhold from yourself?

One person here said,"this is your experience, your reality and your 'approach' to existence."

To have an approach is to not see "existence" for what It is.
To have an "'approach' to existence", whatever it is, will not ever free you. You create the approach, therefore you are the one who has enslaved yourself because you are living in the existence/reality/experience that are aware of. If you are seeing suffering, that is your world, and you may even incorporate an "approach" to that too.

It is You, the Moment is You. Awareness of "the moment" is awareness of your Self. To see or consider the numerous other approaches to yourself or the moment (even seeing "moment" and "you" as two different things) is to be enslaved. This is my approach, which inevitably "enslaves" me also. I will attempt to explain how it is so that one would be enslaved.

To be identified as being other than that which Is (the Moment/Now), is to cause suffering, for That Which Is exists not interacting with the world of suffering which we are "unfortunately" tasked with doing. When "That Which Is" does interact with this approach we have set up, it is known as ..."me" or any person individually. Not interacting with this world (by being aware of the Self) is like composing everything for every individual and every iota of matter, which may one day evolve to Be the Moment, in harmony. For we see "the moment" in a distorted manner, when its True Form, undistorted, is All Things.
Therefore to Be is to aid all.

We are living in the world we are seeing, the so called "approach"; though, who can say that the world is the Moment, when they have not even defined the latter, yet defined the former with all sorts of problems and biases of individual significance? This is what separates us. The Moment is You, The Creator, The Creation, The One, Unity, Love, etc., it is all You - what You really Are.
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I find it is not a good idea for me to tell you what separates, as it would be best for you figure out what would be responsible for that which you feel as suffering, if that is what you feel you must do; I would not want to suggest you do 1 certain thing, and thereby change the course of your actions. What I say is as much founded as those thoughts which enter your mind and exit it. My words may not always be correct; use them however you may at your discernment.

reply to post by arpgme


To be fully present in the Now, to be completely free to be who you are, and to be of service are not mutually unobtainable. They can all be congruent.

Thanks for sharing!

This is a very good thought, though seems to be a false dilemma...that is...it is not just an either or question and the two are not mutually exclusive.

Acceptance does not exclude Power...in fact it takes great personal power to accept things - especially those we cannot change currently.

Power does not exclude Acceptance...in fact real power involves accepting limits - like knowing how/when we dispense our propensities.

Both Power and Acceptance are part of ones free-will, and as we are all connected simply by proximity upon this planet, theyre also part of anothers.

Empowerment is key. Forcing ourselves to accept is not true to oneself - empowering. Forcing others to accept (excess power) is not true to oneself - empowering.

We must choose that which is truely personally empowering...that may mean not accepting something, and by proxy, exercising power to change it - and sometimes this may conflict with another person...but truth is, they wer denying themselves in order to deny another in the first place!!!

∞LOVE
mayallsoulsbefree∞

Overt acceptance.
Covert resistance.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


Why make a principle out of something everyone must do anyways? People have no choice but to exist in this 'now.' So why preach it if it's already happening?

I don't find it necessary to make a choice between focus and contemplation as it depends on the context doesn't it? Focus arises when it's necessary. But so does foresight and the contemplation of memories. If one didn't have foresight, one may end up walking off a cliff. The same would happen if one never focused.

reply to post by awake1234


Yes, this is what I was trying to say. Acceptance is powerful, but it can also lead to feeling trapped if you do not like the situation which is causing you (and / or others) harm.

One the one hand, just letting everything go, even your dreams and wants, and just surrendering to life - may seem to make life easy and more happy (less disappointment), but it can still lead you into situations where you suffer and then you'd have to resist the reality anyway (so it is not fully consistent)...

With Power, you can just see yourself and others as powerful beings being themselves and living life and when someone does something you don't like - just know that you have the power to put whatever YOU want in YOUR life - it is yours, you don't have to pay attention to another that you don't like..



Maybe another way of looking at it is choice. Life is like a restaurant - all the food is here (some call some "good" and others call other foods "bad" - but it is personal tastes) and YOU get to choose whatever you like on YOUR plate, you can not pay attention to what is on anyone else's plate and make that non-existent for you... Maybe preference is a better word than power.

reply to post by arpgme

What do you think of this? Walk the path of acceptance - have no individuality, allow whatever happens to be without expectations and never suffer...

OR

do what makes you feel free, and allow others to be free, feel empowered, be yourself, and if life doesn't sometimes go the way you want - at least you tried, now you can stop thinking about that since it makes you feel "controlled" by life and focus on what other things in YOUR life you can control (not people!) - or do to feel free.....

Your trying to create two broad categorises for a persons behaviour, where one leads to loss of individuality and the other amplifyng the persons self individuality. I cant see how pursuing indivduality versus not will naturally lead to less control tendancies pver people. Some people are natural control freaks, and whether they believe in indvidually or not it will unlikely cause to change their natural behaviour. I would take a guess that if you are a idealogical type person with lots of views, your will seek to control.