According to the telegraph Ufologie is dying!

Here is one thing I find vexing about ufology. The Bigtime Expert Authorities are mostly people who'v had no experiences. Seems to me like that situation should be reversed.

reply to post by Saucerwench


I have come to find those experts speak on the superficial topic of the esoteric but know nothing of the true secrets of the occult (secret knowledge), the ethereal. That`s why it`s the same old stale data. Take a certain UFO magazine claiming "Open Minds" or a UFO Magazine that features a man dressed in killer military garb on the cover (so crude, so human). I sent pictures better than they ever published, BUT they rejected my narrative, as if they know anything beyond commercial exploitation. They passed on truth because it did not fit their terms, it`s not sterile enough for them. Be very careful with your greatest gift, free will choice, you will be held in account of what you did with it. This is each persons destiny, it will help determine "future placement".

The consolation is the AB`s know who is actually capable of Truth and they are given to it. Imagine all the "so called" Holy Books in the world. You can see them and touch them, yet if the significance is absent and the meaning is lost, how is then that you should BE GIVEN secret knowledge of the invisible ?

You connect from your spirit self within, then you become an attraction to them. Also, just FYI they have a sense of humor, some energy forms I film demonstrate a playful side, real jokers. But talk about compassion and love, OMG, I want go with them better after my mission is complete and I am positive I will, when I leave this realm.

Most all AB`s are soul workers, they serve and also have tons of "rules", that should they deviate, they themselves will be no more.

There is a Universal decree transcending even dimensions, it is this, help those less fortunate than yourself, then you shall be given more and more, forever and forever. There is no such thing as time only directed energy. We exist in a physical and mental and spiritually dense dimension. "Things" are happening in super slow motion (relative to), here, for us, and things are often painful, this is for the benefit of our crude sense`s and body and Soul to learn and grow. Always spiritual growth, even for them, it is the food of Light which garners perpetual life and favor, powers are yielded.

They do not serve ego and material like we do, they kept growing spiritually and tamed energy itself through supreme consciousness. They are there, even when you don`t see them. They are waiting, for something.

Ohhhh boy,

Les

Originally posted by Saucerwench
Here is one thing I find vexing about ufology. The Bigtime Expert Authorities are mostly people who'v had no experiences. Seems to me like that situation should be reversed.

The exceptions that come to mind are Dr. James E. McDonald, who was with three other scientists when he had his sighting and said none of them could come up with a prosaic explanation, and James Fox, who said he had a sighting at an early age. Both said it was the personal sighting that got them interested in learning more about the phenomenon, and both put a lot of work into it.

Oh, and long-time USAF spokesman Col. William Coleman, whose job is was to play down the phenonomen, finally admiited in 1978 that he had been the pilot in a multiplle-witness sighting in 1955 and got a good look at a disc he estimated to be 40' in diameter. Before that, in all his years of speaking publicly about UFOs, nobody asked him on camera if I had ever seen one himself. But when that finaly happened, he freely admitted to it.

One does not need to have witnessed aerial anamolies to become a credible researcher anymore than I need to have stepped on the moon before I can write a report on it. In fact, it usually means one is then more objective going into their field.

Originally posted by DJW001
Ufology cannot die because it is already dead as a scientific discipline. I have been appalled by the complete lack of methodical investigation applied by MUFON, for example. And let's not even look at the hoaxes perpetrated by APIT! Notice how quickly this thread was swamped by discussion of extraterrestrials, confessions of belief and photos of crop circles enlisted as evidence. No-one with any scientific integrity wants to interfere with what has clearly become a religion. UFOs will always be with us, but no-one will be interested in figuring out if there is something to be learned by studying reports of them.

Your point on the lack of the scientific method is a valid one. Hence the problem of these UFO shows that just surmise without reference. However, one is hampered because the phenomena is extremely hard to study as one can never know when something anamolous will happen or where.

Dealing with rare or essentially random phenomena and unpredictable phenomena is very difficult for the scientific method. All swans were white until a black swan was found. It was always possible that black swans existed, and indeed they did exist, but not in Europe and you would be called a fool and a knave if you stated that you had seen a black swan in Europe in the middle ages.

But there is something that could make it a factor more difficult. Imagine if we are dealing with more intelligent beings with ability to manipulate space, perhaps time and even to mess with our memories and perception. There have been many many reports of strange witness behaviour during and after sightings (I'm not including more controversial abductions or hypnoptically revealed memories in this).

Simply put, how do you study beings that are smarter and better equipped than you if they don't want you to detect them or record them?

reply to post by ManInAsia

Simply put, how do you study beings that are smarter and better equipped than you if they don't want you to detect them or record them?

Why do you suppose intelligent beings even enter into the topic?

Consider, does the patient go to study the Doctor; neither then does the human study the Advanced Beings.

Originally posted by DJW001
reply to post by ManInAsia

 

Simply put, how do you study beings that are smarter and better equipped than you if they don't want you to detect them or record them?

Why do you suppose intelligent beings even enter into the topic?

Reports of UFOs can be caused by many things.

But what if the UFO as in an advanced flying machine is more intelligent than us, and not just a little bit, but a factor of 100s to 1000s of times more intelligent. How do we study it if it doesn't want to be studied?

Simple concept.but it seems difficult for people to accept that this could be the case. Until we find intelligent beings/machines or they choose to openly reveal themselves. And then it's obvious.

We have more advanced knowledge in many areas than people did 100 years ago and have much more advanced technology at our disposal, but that doesn't mean we're more intelligent. If anything, when people have tech doing everything for them, the lack of challenge may mean lack or mental exercise and perhaps diminished reasoning skills. They probably had better nutrition 100 years ago and didn’t have TV to rot their brains.

Sudoku seems like a fair test, not requiring the latest knowledge. Do you think people today can solve difficult Sudoku puzzles any faster than literate people 100 or 500 years ago could if they had it available?

Space-faring aliens might be resting on the laurels of ancestors who solved what we still consider mysteries of nature and technological challenges millions of years ago and now couldn’t think their way out of a paper bag, let alone mentally add up the prices of everything in a shopping cart.

How about Sudoku with Roman numerals?

reply to post by ManInAsia

Reports of UFOs can be caused by many things.

Absolutely.

But what if the UFO as in an advanced flying machine is more intelligent than us, and not just a little bit, but a factor of 100s to 1000s of times more intelligent. How do we study it if it doesn't want to be studied?

But what if the UFO was really the soul of a valiant warrior being taken to the hall of Valhalla by Shield Maidens?

Simple concept.but it seems difficult for people to accept that this could be the case. Until we find intelligent beings/machines or they choose to openly reveal themselves. And then it's obvious.

Sherlock Holmes was fond of saying: "Once we have eliminated the impossible, what remains, however improbable, must be the solution." You have a lot of eliminating to do before you can bring intelligent beings/machines into the solution.

reply to post by DJW001


I disagree. You would have to create a far more complex set of rules if you really believed it was a "soul" of some warrior of the past, his consciousness somehow manifesting outside of his body. What are you even talking about?

Is your quote to validate my argument? Is alien life impossible to you? Would Intelligent Alien Life be the more improbable? Ergo the truth of the matter?

More logical to assume life popped up in the universe before us, and MAYBE, just MAYBE... it wanted to travel through the galaxy and found another planet with life on it. You cannot assume to be omniscient nor omnipresent. So to argue about the validity of data that you havn't seen, is really quite ridiculous. Maybe it helps you sleep at night to quell the idea that other life may have evolved in the billions of years before our own birth.

Oh, for crying out loud. The UFO is the Sun. Don't you get it? It is a ''flying'' disc. It rises up out of the water. Whoopty woo woo woo. It is on FIRE!! And of course they were drunk. This, my friends, is my message for you.

It is meant to draw you further in to a study of the hidden wisdom. It is not meant to stupify you and leave you cowering in the corner afraid of the boogie men from outer space.

For you own good, and for the good of mankind, stop believing in Hollywood aliens. Start researching the real reality show.

reply to post by WorShip

I disagree. You would have to create a far more complex set of rules if you really believed it was a "soul" of some warrior of the past, his consciousness somehow manifesting outside of his body. What are you even talking about?

If you cannot identify something, you need to eliminate every other possibility before you can come to a conclusion. Even if you are positive that it is an intelligently controlled craft, there is still a lengthy list of possibilities to eliminate before you conclude that it is extraterrestrial in origin and contains living beings.

Is your quote to validate my argument? Is alien life impossible to you? Would Intelligent Alien Life be the more improbable? Ergo the truth of the matter?

I'm not sure I follow you. What does intelligent alien life have to do with ghosts or optical illusions? It sounds like you are inclined to put your conclusion ahead of your reasoning.

More logical to assume life popped up in the universe before us, and MAYBE, just MAYBE... it wanted to travel through the galaxy and found another planet with life on it. You cannot assume to be omniscient nor omnipresent. So to argue about the validity of data that you havn't seen, is really quite ridiculous. Maybe it helps you sleep at night to quell the idea that other life may have evolved in the billions of years before our own birth.

Yes MAYBE. And MAYBE the Vikings were right about Shield Maidens. You are the one who is taking the position of omniscience. You "know" the Vikings must have been wrong. You "know" life exists elsewhere, and that interstellar flight is not only possible, but happens every day.

reply to post by DJW001


I agree that you must eliminate all other possibilities. But really, it is case to case dependant. I.E some cases are more extreme and leave little room for denial of intelligently controlled objects witnessed from earth. Do you look at the stars much? I never used to spend a lot of time doing it, but after my experience I've taken to looking constantly at the sky to try and collect more data.

I meant intelligent alien life that is potentially in earths vicinity. It has nothing to do with ghosts or optical illusions.

I am not claiming omniscience. Maybe you don't have any data/experiences that make you inclined to consider the possibility of it. Your stance seems rather in opposition to it being a possibility - despite the fact that you havn't witnessed what others may have witnessed, and come to a conclusion about it when in reality, you don't have any data on what you're judging. Do you spend hours a week watching the stars?

By the way, are you of the opinion that life does not exist elsewhere? And that there is no possible method for consciousness to travel vast distances at high speeds? Obviously you cannot answer, and I think you should not have formed an opinion that negates the possibility. (More so because we are late-comers to the galactic scene).

Don't get me wrong, While I may have no way to logically deny the possibility that alien life could be visiting earth, I do not "believe it"... It's just that I have to consider all possibilities and be prepared. And it all stems from an experience with some "UFO" that defied my human perceptions.

reply to post by WorShip

I agree that you must eliminate all other possibilities. But really, it is case to case dependant. I.E some cases are more extreme and leave little room for denial of intelligently controlled objects witnessed from earth. Do you look at the stars much? I never used to spend a lot of time doing it, but after my experience I've taken to looking constantly at the sky to try and collect more data.

But the ancients thought the wind was intelligent. The ancients thought that lightning was intelligent. Just because you think a phenomenon is behaving as though it were intelligent, or even intelligently controlled, does not mean that it is. I look at the stars a great deal, which is why I am so dismayed by the constant reports that the object on the horizon "cannot possibly be Venus," even though that is precisely where Venus was.

I meant intelligent alien life that is potentially in earths vicinity. It has nothing to do with ghosts or optical illusions.

Sure, there might be intelligent life in Earth's vicinity. Why not? It's just not very likely. As far as it having nothing to do with ghosts or optical illusions: are you so sure of that? Explaining a phenomenon you witness as being an "extraterrestrial craft" sounds more "sciencey," but ultimately it is no more illuminating as to the phenomenon's actual nature as calling it a ghost or angel.

I am not claiming omniscience. Maybe you don't have any data/experiences that make you inclined to consider the possibility of it. Your stance seems rather in opposition to it being a possibility - despite the fact that you havn't witnessed what others may have witnessed, and come to a conclusion about it when in reality, you don't have any data on what you're judging. Do you spend hours a week watching the stars?

By the way, are you of the opinion that life does not exist elsewhere? And that there is no possible method for consciousness to travel vast distances at high speeds? Obviously you cannot answer, and I think you should not have formed an opinion that negates the possibility. (More so because we are late-comers to the galactic scene).

I think it highly likely that life exists everywhere. I simply find it unlikely that other species would evolve to the point where they can develop technologies that seem to violate everything we know about the nature of the universe, then using that technology to spend so much time visiting what, to them, must be an extremely obscure and uninteresting planet. Sure, some scout ship may have stumbled across Earth and collected some specimens, but why the alleged close formation flying over the US Capitol? I'm certainly open to the possibility that some unidentified phenomena might be extraterrestrial craft, but I refuse to close my mind to the possibility that it might be something even more interesting.

Don't get me wrong, While I may have no way to logically deny the possibility that alien life could be visiting earth, I do not "believe it"... It's just that I have to consider all possibilities and be prepared. And it all stems from an experience with some "UFO" that defied my human perceptions.

I'm perfectly open to the idea that extraterrestrials might visit Earth, but I don't see it as a very fruitful assumption when it comes to making sense of what people think they are seeing in the sky.

reply to post by DJW001


Haha, well you're doing a good job of being skeptical. However, compairing ancient perceptions with our current "modern technological" perceptions isn't a good example. I don't believe the wind is intelligent, Yet I do believe that when I see a Star-Like orange orb that makes no sound travelling across the sky with slight variations in its course - which suddenly changes direction at 90 degrees, and arcs in two distinctly noticeable bounds, whilst accelerating to speeds beyond my ability to comprehend, and dissapears into the background of space, that there's a high possibility that it's something intelligent - I can't logically think of anything else that would move in such a way and not possess some kind of intelligence. Arguing about the label you attach to it is meaningless. Soul/Angel/Alien. What is an angel? What is a soul? We can't really talk about those things. We can talk about what we know from our own manifest in reality. We can only identify it as possibly intelligent life that occupies physical space.

Even though I've spent many hours looking at the stars since then, I havn't been able to repeat this experience. I have however seen less remarkable things moving in the stars that I am unable to identify. But I don't really put much weight on those sightings because none have been as extreme as the orange orb I saw.

Also, we hardly know everything about physical reality. So to speak as if you know reality intimately and can equate your knowledge that has sprung up in the last few centuries on earth compaired to the potential knowledge of those who popped into existence before us is practically meaningless. It's not logical to say that you think it's highly unlikely, because there's absolutely no way for you to know in the slightest what is contained in this universe, and it's "limits".

I don't see howyou can determine it's fruitfulness. You believe life is out there but are determined to refute that some type of life could possibly have begun exploring the galaxy by means we can't fully understand yet. It's a matter of logical analysis. People try to make sense of what they see. Could be earth origin? Well that's awesome if humans have space-faring technology.. But that makes it important that we get it into the open so the rest of us can experience it. If on the other hand it's not earth origin, then I think it's probably pretty significant.. Making it not particularly smart to make the judgement that it's highly unlikely, JUST because you havn't personally witnessed something. You can't deny that people have seen things that indicate intelligently controlled vehicles(whether they be thought of as traditional space-ship or are something less conventional by our standards), that could be extra-terrestrial in origin, Neither can you verify if they have seen it. You need to keep yourself in a state of non-belief =p

Oh, and also. I researched a bit after my initial experience. Another factor that to me indicates that it may be a valid observation that what I saw was potentially extra-terrestrial in origin, is that there are countless reports in the last 60 years specifically detailing what I've seen. Orange luminous orbs. It's quite mind-boggling to see the consistancy of reports regarding orange orbs. I really want to know what they are.

they are right we are shooting low and even if you had the truth you would think twice about sharing it too.

Sometimes I think the radical changes of the 60s were because of aliens. People were surely, surely, different in the 70s. 80s was a time of musical expression on into the 90s with 1995 being a cold year, filled with a mysterious energy.

What do we have now? Since youtube hit hard the world has pretty much calmed down because they can all see each other. Beside people wanting to stand out for each other, there is no change, there is nothing unique.

I have matched this together with UFO research, and it shows that we were visited, and the aliens left to South America around 2000. So you have a few abductees who are still being abducted because they were part of the program, but you do not have cars being pulled to the side by the aliens, and you don't have cattle being drug across fields anymore. For anyone to believe in aliens we need something like Travis Walton, a person who vanishes and comes back, things like that were common back then.