Romney will raise taxes on the rich by 1 Trillion to pay for his Middle Class tax cuts

reply to post by snarky412

SO TRUE! And so sad.
Split Infinity

reply to post by Annee

Annee...you are replying to me as if I was some kind of Romney Supporter. I am NOT. I just see the reality of what will be needed to fix the economy. I have NOTHING against Obama with the exception of his complete inability to figure out a way to work with Both Sides. I don't care if OBAMA had the whole Legislative Body LOCKED IN A ROOM TILL THEY MADE NICE! He is the President and it is HIS job to make things work.

Split Infinity

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by Annee

 

Annee...you are replying to me as if I was some kind of Romney Supporter.

No.

Romney is the opposition to Obama.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by Annee

 

Annee...you are replying to me as if I was some kind of Romney Supporter.

No.

Romney is the opposition to Obama.

OK...but I am sorry...I do not see what in HELL'S NAME you are trying to say to me? Please explain how what you quoted has anything to do with your reply. I am curious. Split Infinity

Originally posted by SplitInfinity

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by Annee

 

Annee...you are replying to me as if I was some kind of Romney Supporter.

No.

Romney is the opposition to Obama.

OK...but I am sorry...I do not see what in HELL'S NAME you are trying to say to me? Please explain how what you quoted has anything to do with your reply. I am curious. Split Infinity

We don't agree. We don't see from the same base perspective.

That's about as much politics I'm gonna get into on ATS. I've moved on.

reply to post by Annee

No explanation? Oh well. I will live. LOL!
Split Infinity

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by Ghost375

 

GHOST...I agree. I am a Massachusetts INDEPENDENT! I do not like either party. I had hopes for Obama. He is our President and I respect any American President. The issue is that Obama does not have the skill to be able to WORK or CONVINCE the Republican Leadership that to work with HIM will be in their BEST INTERESTS as well as the interests of the U.S.

It is this inability to use whatever means necessary to get the JOB DONE...as far as getting our economy going...that ROMNEY...in my opinion...is better suited for. Romney and TED KENNEDY stood together at NATHANIEL HALL and joked with each other as an almost total Democratic Mass. Legislature was only too Happy to sign and vote in Favor of ROMNEY CARE. Romney used the Best Economic Experts available along with the Insurance Companies and with any issues raised by the Mass. Dems. to develop MASSACHUSETTS UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE. I am WEALTHY and my Insurance Premiums have GONE DOWN! EVERYONE IN MASS HAS HEALTH CARE! EVERYONE!

ROMNEY CARE was the template that OBAMA used as well as Obama bringing in Mitt Romney's Expert Team to construct the current U.S. Universal Health Care. The problem is that the DEM's when they had a Majority in both House and Senate...would not use the Current and Working Mass. Universal Insurance Coverage Plan as it was designed to WORK AND BE VIABLE! The DEM's started squabbling when they had those Majorities and the Current U.S. Universal Health Care Plan is not like the plan that is working in Mass. as some parts were GUTTED by the DEM's.

If ROMNEY CARE is used as is in every State...it will work on the National Level. It was developed by the FINEST MINDS IN BUSINESS AND ECONOMICS...not like the current...DOOMED TO FAILURE and a plan that will SKYROCKET COSTS because the DEM's could not STAND to use a REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR from MASSACHUSETTS PLAN...which is STUPID as ROMNEY used the BEST PEOPLE SUITED TO DEVELOP THE PLAN!

So Split, does this mean that the hidden taxes in Obamacare are present in Romneycare, for example, the real estate tax?

Secondly, I don't believe that your healthcare premiums have gone down. I HAD a Blue Cross/Shield policy with no deductible and it cost over $8,800 dollars. Why shouldn't I just pay the $2,000 fine to the IRS and have the same? Or would it really not be the same?

If a gallon of gas is $3.50, and the government says they will give you a gallon of gas for $1.50, who pays the other $2 dollars? The gas company is not going to absorb it for they won't be in business very long.


Mikado

reply to post by Mikado

Mikado...at issue here is the Mandatory Mandate that everyone have Health Care. In Mass...the Emergency Room costs of people without Health Care were Bankrupting the State. When everyone was required to have Health Care the state which was in the RED quickly returned into the BLUE.

Now the problem with Obama Care is the Democrats Gutted one aspect. In Mass...if you have a job that provides you with Health Care that is fine and you can keep you same Job Coverage it is those who did not have Health Care that had to get it so that those Emergency Room Costs would be covered.

The Obama Plan is trying to make mandatory that ALL PEOPLE IN THE U.S. get under the same Government Health Care Plan regardless if they already have coverage. This will NOT WORK as if there is one thing we can all agree upon is the Government has a POOR TRACK RECORD of running any program and costs will SKYROCKET!

If the Federal Plan was limited to mandate that everyone just have Health Care and if their Job does provide it or if they do not work...they would be covered by the Federal System...then it will work. It will NOT WORK the current way it is written and as I have said...my overall costs have gone down under the Mass Business Health Care Plan. Split Infinity

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by Mikado

 

Mikado...at issue here is the Mandatory Mandate that everyone have Health Care. In Mass...the Emergency Room costs of people without Health Care were Bankrupting the State. When everyone was required to have Health Care the state which was in the RED quickly returned into the BLUE.

Let me see if I have this.

The state was picking up the tab for a bill, just for reference we will say $1,000. Now if everyone has health care and pays premiums into the state run system, I am assuming, the books are now in the black? or did you intentionally mean blue?

Now those that can afford the insurance usually have it and can pay premiums. Those that don't have insurance can't afford it and of course this is a general rule. Now , where did you say those premium payments are coming from?

Mikado

reply to post by Mikado

Blue is a Satire Word for what the State calls Black! LOL! They state they are in the Black and we say...AND BLUE! LOL! The way it supposedly works is that EVERYONE must have Health Care and if you don't make a lot...you pay a smaller amount that others who make more.
There are Companies who use their own Insurance Carriers but the State worked out plans for Businesses that make it much more affordable than it was for us to employ and insure our people under the old system. Basically...the State is paying less money out overall by having to pay for some folks premiums and others who could not afford Health Care pay a smaller amount that goes into the General Fund.

But as compared to the amount of money the State was paying to cover Emergency Room Costs...the actual amount of money the State is putting in is less than it was paying these Hospital Bills.

All I know is that we are without a doubt on the verge of a Massive Recovery. We will have a down turn in Winter but I believe a HUGE Upturn in the Spring. Split Infinity

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by Mikado

 

Blue is a Satire Word for what the State calls Black! LOL! They state they are in the Black and we say...AND BLUE! LOL! The way it supposedly works is that EVERYONE must have Health Care and if you don't make a lot...you pay a smaller amount that others who make more.
There are Companies who use their own Insurance Carriers but the State worked out plans for Businesses that make it much more affordable than it was for us to employ and insure our people under the old system. Basically...the State is paying less money out overall by having to pay for some folks premiums and others who could not afford Health Care pay a smaller amount that goes into the General Fund.

But as compared to the amount of money the State was paying to cover Emergency Room Costs...the actual amount of money the State is putting in is less than it was paying these Hospital Bills.

All I know is that we are without a doubt on the verge of a Massive Recovery. We will have a down turn in Winter but I believe a HUGE Upturn in the Spring. Split Infinity

If I take what you have stated as fact then what about the illegals who use the emergency room as a doctor's appointment for every little sniffle and cough?

That is a big problem here in the county I live in and other counties as well where there is a large illegal immigrant population. They are like locusts, they consume all in their path and return nothing. So, how would that work in the system you have mentioned? In other words, if an illegal immigrant goes into an emergency room and has no insurance whatsoever...who pays?

Mikado

reply to post by Mikado

I believe the State pays for them although we do not have a large illegal immigrant problem in Mass...but I see your line of reasoning. Split Infinity

So Split, you say or seem to be a big proponent of Romneycare, am I correct in this? Assuming based upon your posts and with that, all is well in the great State, excuse me, the great Commonwealth of Massachusetts as far as healthcare and that this reflects upon Obamacare since it was the blueprint for it and if so, then I find the following curious.

I have seen recently in the news that Massachusetts is debating making a law in that assisted suicide would be legal. Now the argument is that the passage of this law would be allowing the ill to pass on...no, I will say it as it is...to die with dignity.

Why does one get the feeling, that the reason this is being considered could be due to the fact that the terminally ill are causing a drain upon the healthcare system? And this Kevorkian law is the solution? So who will decide? Who will recommend the procedure...suicide as a procedure, what a hoot. Would that possibly be a panel who might recommend it? And what would be the result if the patient refuses?...possibly the loss of healthcare?...leaving the family to pick up the tab?

Just some thoughts for pondering.

Mikado

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by Mikado

 

Mikado...at issue here is the Mandatory Mandate that everyone have Health Care.

I need to address this statement. If a "mandate" is "mandatory" then what is a "mandatory mandate"?

Do you understand the totality of a mandate? There is no choice.

In Pennsylvania, insurance is required by law to be on a Motor Vehicle. If one wishes to drive a motor vehicle on public roads than insurance is required. No insurance means that your registration will be revoked and a fine issued. There are those that define this as a "mandate" but it is not for there is choice...ride a bike...but it is not a mandate.

Now what is the penalty in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts if one does not have healthcare? Is there a fine?

A law can be described as mandatory only if it reacts directly with the person. Car insurance does not but healthcare does for there is choice in the first and not with the second.

See where I am headed with this?

If I can't afford car insurance then I don't drive on the public roads and my registration on the vehicle is revoked. I can ride a bike, I can walk, I can hitch a ride, take a taxi or use public transportation...there are alternatives.

If I can't afford the price of healthcare, what happens to me? I must pay for healthcare regardless of my ability or...

Mikado

reply to post by Mikado

Yes...there is a Tax Penalty as far as a person who refuses to have Health Insurance in Mass. The amount I would have to look up.

As for a person who cannot afford Insurance who does not have the income to do so...Health Care is Free.
Split Infinity

reply to post by Mikado

Mikado...as you know...my Family has companies that are specific to the Practice of Medicine. I have seen and experienced people who are in a Terminally Ill state as well as some unfortunate people who have forms of Cancer or Tumors that are present in their brain which are not only Terminal in their nature but effect the specific areas of the brain that allow for the RELIEF OF PAIN by the use of OPIATES.

In these people who have 2 to 8 months to live yet because of where their tumor lies...cannot receive PAIN RELIEF by using OPIATE PAIN RELIEVERS. It is HORRIFIC! They cannot relieve these peoples Pain no matter what Doctors can try...Surgery, Direct Insertion of a Tube into the Brain, application of Novocaine like drugs...NOTHING WORKS!

This is but one of many Terminal Patient Horrors that assisted suicide can help end. I KNOW what it is to be in INTENSE PHYSICAL PAIN! Now I cannot even IMAGINE the thought of being in THAT level of pain for MONTHS on end never mind HOURS. I WOULD DO ANYTHING TO MAKE IT STOP! It is for these types of people as well as other Terminally Ill people that this Bill is for.

I understand the questions you raise but take it from someone who KNOWS...there are MUCH WORSE THINGS THAN DYING! Split Infinity

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by Mikado

 

Mikado...as you know...my Family has companies that are specific to the Practice of Medicine. I have seen and experienced people who are in a Terminally Ill state as well as some unfortunate people who have forms of Cancer or Tumors that are present in their brain which are not only Terminal in their nature but effect the specific areas of the brain that allow for the RELIEF OF PAIN by the use of OPIATES.

In these people who have 2 to 8 months to live yet because of where their tumor lies...cannot receive PAIN RELIEF by using OPIATE PAIN RELIEVERS. It is HORRIFIC! They cannot relieve these peoples Pain no matter what Doctors can try...Surgery, Direct Insertion of a Tube into the Brain, application of Novocaine like drugs...NOTHING WORKS!

This is but one of many Terminal Patient Horrors that assisted suicide can help end. I KNOW what it is to be in INTENSE PHYSICAL PAIN! Now I cannot even IMAGINE the thought of being in THAT level of pain for MONTHS on end never mind HOURS. I WOULD DO ANYTHING TO MAKE IT STOP! It is for these types of people as well as other Terminally Ill people that this Bill is for.

I understand the questions you raise but take it from someone who KNOWS...there are MUCH WORSE THINGS THAN DYING! Split Infinity

Sorry for the late reply, too much going elsewhere that needed my attention.

So, your saying that the root reason that seems to be circulating as to "assisted suicide" is the relief of pain in terminal cases.

Okay, say the law passes. What happens when there is a terminally ill individual, in the pain you describe, and that patient is in under care. And in your own words - "Now I cannot even IMAGINE the thought of being in THAT level of pain for MONTHS on end never mind HOURS. I WOULD DO ANYTHING TO MAKE IT STOP! It is for these types of people as well as other Terminally Ill people that this Bill is for."

If someone is in that much pain is their decision making ability really at it's best? Are they in a position to understand the totality of a decision to "end it all" and not just the ending of the pain only?

When a law is passed, modifications to that law are so much easier to pass for the door is opened. I believe that a person has a right to choose life or death. There are individuals that make that decision in the manner in which they drive or skydive from a balloon to achieve speeds never before reached by a human body in freefall.

A law is not needed. If I give you a gun and you choose to use it in a manner, at a later time of course, to end your life then that is your choice to use it in that manner. The same with a "prescription drug" overdose...the patients choice.

A law such as that is closer to a panel making a decision based solely on fiscal reasons.

As to dying, been there once and not too excited to return.

Mikado

reply to post by Mikado

Of course as always...you bring up valid points. I am also very well much aware that this law may have motives that go beyond what I have described...but believe me...no matter what mental condition a Terminally Ill person is in...they are aware of two very real things.

1. They are going to die.
2. They are in Pain which will NEVER STOP.

As I have told you on several occasions...I was shot multiple times. After the adrenaline wore off...the Pain I was in was beyond anything anyone can handle for any length of time. What made things worse for me is that I was in charge and rather than DOPE UP....I had to wait and with help of my team members who refused to leave me...I had to walk with their help.

In the passing hours of pain that I endured...I reached a point where I would rather be DEAD than go through the pain...but I had a chance of survival which allowed me to press on.

These Terminally ill people have no such HOPE of survival...they only have the knowledge that they will eventually die. It is this reason and this reason ALONE that I support this Bill. Split Infinity