I think a member here has found a great idea for dealing with insurance...

reply to post by pheonix358

OP, you need a reality check. An insurance claim for a broken arm is 20,000 pounds. Let's say a flood goes through the neighborhood, damages 50 of the insured homes. Insurance works because the companies are huge. Little groups like your suggesting would end the moment a freak storm did some damage. P

I don't think that is necessarily true. Everyone has to start somewhere. And hey why couldn't a HUGE company take this on? It is just a concept that anyone can run with.

reply to post by schuyler

You're not understanding the basics of insurance. You are seeing it in a philosophical perspective. If people could do what you want them to do they would have already done it. You are being belligernt about your lack of knowledge as well. We are trying to tell you how the real world works and you're there fighting for your idea rather than trying to learn and absorb what some of the issues are. I won't bother trying to educate you any more on this topic because you think you've got it down. So go try it and report back. I predict you will have your tail between your legs.

Bye Bye then... I mean honestly how uptight are some of you? This is a concept to be explored!

Talk about taking it seriously...

reply to post by DIDtm

What happens when one of the insured's is at fault and crashes into a 100,000 dollar Mercedes being driven by a neurosurgeon, who because of the accident can no longer work due to nerve problems? He and his insurance company (you can bet your life on this) are going to come after the at fault driver and this insurance group that you have set up. Lawyer fees alone could empty your million dollar coffer, not to mention any settlement made or any award the jury finds.

Well look I know these ridiculous scenarios CAN happen but let's just for argument sake put that to the back burner. It is not important right now... Just explore the concept a little more. I mean as a quick answer adjust the pool size then! Have 100,000 in the pool. Everything is variable and not set in stone.

Lot's of insurance companies offer budget insurance without legal fees being included. The terms and conditions would be up to whomever wants to take it on.

I really hate that, if it could of been done it would of been done. What kind of non-sense is that? So you are saying that nothing new will ever emerge because if it could be done it would be there already. My brain hurts thinking about that. lol

Okay lets take this at another angle...

Let's say that a big huge firm took this idea on and say there was a pool of 100,000 people already. Each person had paid in £100 a month for 1 year. So there would be 10,000,000 in the pot and all you needed to do to join was pay £100 a month for a year. At the end of that year you do not pay any monthly fee! All you do is pay a portion of that months incidents. Say for that month it was £1,000,000 in claims, you would pay £10! And when those people had paid back the money you would receive that back! If they didn't then you wouldn't. But eventually the people not paying would lose their strikes and leave.

Would you join? Any why?

Originally posted by mee30
reply to post by smurfy

 

What if the crasher, and the crashed were scammers and adding personal injury. And what if a crasher is really an innocent party in all three strikes, but loses all three court cases, the figures of which, might be way out of estimate. That's the way the law works, third party claim is mandatory and could be any figure, vehicle crash repair is expensive even to the point that some insurers nowadays might insist on second hand parts be used in the repairs. Your million dollars is mere petty cash in that scenario.

The amount you have in the pot is variable and up to you. The figure is purely an example. Scammers will be quickly weeded out by the 3 strike system, plus why would people want to lose this deal? Also to start with you could keep the cap on the car price pretty low and go from there.

The costs spread over a 1000 people is no big deal. Even if the cost of one crash was £100,000 it would only cost each person a one off £100 payment, which they could well get back if the crasher wants their strike back.

I think you miss the point, repair damage, while expensive, is tiny in comparison to what the legal eagles can throw at you in terms of third party injury, and the courts cannot be avoided, they can also be very singular if a case is proven to their satisfaction. Scammers on the other hand, continue to work every trick in the book, a big problem in insurance, since it always includes mechanical damage and personal injury. There is more, if you as an insurer, are a combatant against a government body, they don't carry insurance, and you have again to prove your case in a court, so you can see there what you might be up against.

Where are you going to find 1,000 people who won't lie and make false claims?

reply to post by smurfy

I think you miss the point, repair damage, while expensive, is tiny in comparison to what the legal eagles can throw at you in terms of third party injury, and the courts cannot be avoided, they can also be very singular if a case is proven to their satisfaction. Scammers on the other hand, continue to work every trick in the book, a big problem in insurance, since it always includes mechanical damage and personal injury. There is more, if you as an insurer, are a combatant against a government body, they don't carry insurance, and you have again to prove your case in a court, so you can see there what you might be up against. signature:

I don't miss the point at all. The cost of a crash (including EVERYTHING) is irrelevant! Split between so many people whatever these rare events cost it won't matter. And if in the event that there was not enough in the pot you would have to ask the people to pay a little extra each until you are straight again. Whatever you chose to do i would be MUCH cheaper for the consumer.

There is always the possibility of a freak accident. You could be hit by a shot down UFO any day now! But I'm sure that fact does not stop you from leaving the house.

I know you want to bring up worst case scenarios but lets just explore how we could get around the problems not only focus on really obscure ones.

reply to post by Socrato

Where are you going to find 1,000 people who won't lie and make false claims?

What would it matter? Make a 2 strike system if you like. How long will they hang around? They will be weeded out and lose out on extremely cheap insurance for life.

Okay but to safeguard yourself you could have a policy that states to join you need 3 years no claims?
The possibilities are endless.

Let me ask you, if you could pay for 1 year then pay next to nothing for the rest of your life would you screw that up?

Originally posted by mee30
reply to post by Socrato

 

Where are you going to find 1,000 people who won't lie and make false claims?

What would it matter? Make a 2 strike system if you like. How long will they hang around? They will be weeded out and lose out on extremely cheap insurance for life.

Okay but to safeguard yourself you could have a policy that states to join you need 3 years no claims?
The possibilities are endless.

Let me ask you, if you could pay for 1 year then pay next to nothing for the rest of your life would you screw that up?

And how will you deal with the rule breakers? How can you enforce policies without violence? A group of 1,000 people can get pretty wild, selfish and back stabbing. Especially when there is a potential million $,$$$,$$$ in the bank. You would have to have a whole governing body set up and hold meetings to decide cases. Who gets paid what and who doesn't. You would have to send out statements and have accountants.

I just thought of another idea. You could have a sort of tier system too whereby if you are on the deal for the second year you move into a pool of people that have not lost any strikes for the first year. If you lose a strike then you stay in the first year pool. And as the years go by, if you have not claimed you will be in a pool with thousands of other people that have not claimed. Imagine how often you will pay out then?

What do you think of that?

Originally posted by mee30
reply to post by randomname

 

that's exactly what an insurance company does.

Why are so many saying this? GRRRRRR

I have never heard of an insurance company that you pay into for 1 year only then only pay a portion WHEN there is a crash!

I know insurance companies invest money for crying out loud! That is not the point here. Please read it again and the other comments. This could really work.

Oh and a meager £20,000 between 1000 people is nothing. £20 each. Which would eventually be paid back by the guilty party.

Because there are car accidents EVERY DAY. Thus, you would never reach your WHEN there is a crash scenario....well actually you would, every day Also, insurance claims are not just about the vehicle. You reach down to turn on your radio, taking your eyes off the road for a few seconds...and run into a mother and her three children crossing the street in a designated crosswalk. You kill the mom and youngest child, permantly maiming the other two children. Nope, you weren't paying attention but that doesn't let the insurance company off the hook. This stuff happens EVERY DAY too. If you have ever worked in the claims department of an insurance company, you would have a different point of view.

reply to post by Socrato

And how will you deal with the rule breakers? How can you enforce policies without violence? A group of 1,000 people can get pretty wild, selfish and back stabbing. Especially when there is a potential million $,$$$,$$$ in the bank. You would have to have a whole governing body set up and hold meetings to decide cases. Who gets paid what and who doesn't. You would have to send out statements and have accountants.

Why would you have to use violence? What insurance company uses violence? Even with the prices they charge! Where are the meetings with the clients to decide policy and agree payouts?

You are thinking of this all wrong. You are thinking like it is communism. I'm saying it's a business. The more people you have on the books the more interest you earn.

Now think of it from the perspective that this deal is being offered by a big renowned insurance company. Would you take it?

Originally posted by mee30
I just thought of another idea. You could have a sort of tier system too whereby if you are on the deal for the second year you move into a pool of people that have not lost any strikes for the first year. If you lose a strike then you stay in the first year pool. And as the years go by, if you have not claimed you will be in a pool with thousands of other people that have not claimed. Imagine how often you will pay out then?

What do you think of that?

Now, this sounds a lot more reasonable and workable. You have to weed out the cheaters and thieves and just plain bad drivers. Something like this gets the people to agree to their place and their benefits before hand with a reward for being good.

Just curious though, if this were health insurance... wouldn't you possibly be weeding some of the people who need it the most?

reply to post by mee30


I totally thought you meant this plan in a communist way. I was thinking it was like the old west all over again... Yea, if it's a business model, then why don't you give it a shot? It's worth a try. You'd never know if it works or not without trying it first.

reply to post by Gridrebel

Because there are car accidents EVERY DAY. Thus, you would never reach your WHEN there is a crash scenario....well actually you would, every day Also, insurance claims are not just about the vehicle. You reach down to turn on your radio, taking your eyes off the road for a few seconds...and run into a mother and her three children crossing the street in a designated crosswalk. You kill the mom and youngest child, permantly maiming the other two children. Nope, you weren't paying attention but that doesn't let the insurance company off the hook. This stuff happens EVERY DAY too. If you have ever worked in the claims department of an insurance company, you would have a different point of view.

Oh boy... I just scratch my head sometimes... Yes there are crashes every day but out of how many drivers? 1000? Even if there was a a crash a day out of that 1000 drivers it wouldn't make a difference because the people that crash will pay back the money and you get it returned.

Yes Yes we have had the very rare scenario that happens every now and then out of millions of drivers.. Come on man have some fun with this. Explore it, don't just put up ridiculous scenarios against it. In the unlikely event that it happened then you would just deal with it like any other business. You can also work out things within the T@C.

Things do happen every day but out of millions of drivers. You can't compare that to the 1000 or even 100,000 I'm talking about. But if you had 100,000 clients you would have £10,000,000 in the pot.

Don't think only within the confines of the OP, that was kind of the point... Everything is variable and everything can be ironed out.

reply to post by Socrato

Now, this sounds a lot more reasonable and workable. You have to weed out the cheaters and thieves and just plain bad drivers. Something like this gets the people to agree to their place and their benefits before hand with a reward for being good.

YAY, we're getting there. See there are a ton of things you can do. You can adapt it for all sorts of things and add/remove features as you wish.

Just curious though, if this were health insurance... wouldn't you possibly be weeding some of the people who need it the most?

Well see I only started thinking on this since yesterday and I've only ever really considered car insurance, but I don't see why health insurance would be any different. If you pay back the claim then you would move up the tier also as if you hadn't made a claim if that makes sense? It would be a bit more tricky though I grant you. I would need some time to think that one through some more.

But for now let's stick with the car insurance.

reply to post by mee30


You could simply state that this insurance has a MAX limit... deal with it.

You could register as LLC so your pants could not be sued off.

You would need some damn good lawyers on call though. That would be expensive.

Would work great in a small village with a thousand people and armed guards at the gates of the village to keep outsiders out that may screw the whole thing up.

Not a perfect scenario in the real world,or,at least the world I live in.

reply to post by Socrato

I totally thought you meant this plan in a communist way. I was thinking it was like the old west all over again... Yea, if it's a business model, then why don't you give it a shot? It's worth a try. You'd never know if it works or not without trying it first.

It could be but it would get messy pretty quick for the reasons you already stated... Like most other things this would work better as a business. I'm sure you could earn enough to get a decent salary and pay a good salary just off the interest alone!

Now imagine if you got off the ground and people started to see others paying no monthly premiums what do you think they would do? I'm telling you it would absolutely EXPLODE! Then say you had 2,000,000 customers! That would be £200,000,000 in the pot! Pretty sure that would cover any type of cataclysmic disaster.

In the uk there are 31,035,791 cars on the road! 2,000,000 is a tiny market share! Can you imagine why someone would go elsewhere? Just think about it! The bigger it gets the less every pays when there is an accident.

Lets have some fun...

Lets say I managed to convince EVERY driver in the uk to sign up with me. Okay so I have 31,035,791 policies on my books (as each car would have a policy). That would be £3,103,579,100 in the pot! Now lets say a guy has a Ferrari and he plows into a school bus decapitating every child on board and the company gets hit with a £50,000,000 claim... What would you pay? You know what? I'm going to let you put that in the calculator yourself! 50,000,000 divided by 31,035,791 = .......

Obviously with that many cars you would have lots of accidents going on but honestly it's no big deal as you will see. Besides with the tier system safe drivers would pay less...

reply to post by Socrato

You could simply state that this insurance has a MAX limit... deal with it. You could register as LLC so your pants could not be sued off. You would need some damn good lawyers on call though. That would be expensive.

Indeed you could I like it! Max payout, why not... Protection from losing your pants is always a good thing.

Yes lawyers would be expensive but the bigger you got the more you could get in interest from the pot. I don't think money would be a problem. I don't think you would lack customers either!

Tell you what I want to join it NOW!