Born again... and again?

reply to post by Deetermined

Really? What question do you have, Jhill?

Is your question what I'll do with the information you give?

I would take it into consideration just like any other answer you give.

Thank you for answering. But, I was referring to someone from above, like in spirit form.

If you say that some people sit in a suspended state after they die until they make up their mind about Jesus, I can accept that. I'm not against the idea.

No, I never stated this. Once you are in that suspended state, their is no decision making, you must wait until judgement.

I think I might have seen you make a post in this thread about a possible place other than Heaven where souls are kept until they are designated a body?

I didn't say this either. I said this place is in heaven.

My question then would be, how does God decide which body is going to be resurrected? Once a life cycle ends, wouldn't they already have access to the truth? Why would they need to return to a new life cycle?

I can't speak on this, as I have said, those details are not to be mentioned. Plus, it doesn't work like that at all. Once a new cycle starts, everything restarts. I am back where I was once an undisclosed event takes place.

reply to post by Deetermined

I don't believe there's much to be learned about God or Jesus on this earth today in the state that it's in.

Wow.
Okay, that answers a lot of the questions that I had for you (that you didn't answer directly).

Wow. I also recall you saying that it would not improve, no matter how many people "will it" (with positive thoughts) to happen.

I distinctly recall you saying, "It will never change."
and me challenging you, that as long as there are people who believe it will "never change", and it will never improve, those people are the hindrance.

Negativity is counterproductive.
Just, in my humble and earthly opinion.

reply to post by jhill76

I can't speak on this, as I have said, those details are not to be mentioned.

You couldn't just state this to begin with? Why all of the questions then?

Originally posted by wildtimes

Wow.
Okay, that answers a lot of the questions that I had for you (that you didn't answer directly).

Wow. I also recall you saying that it would not improve, no matter how many people "will it" (with positive thoughts) to happen.

I distinctly recall you saying, "It will never change."
and me challenging you, that as long as there are people who believe it will "never change", and it will never improve, those people are the hindrance.

Negativity is counterproductive.
Just, in my humble and earthly opinion.

Yep. It's all true. That's what I've said and that's what the Bible says will happen too. Sorry.

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by jhill76

 

I can't speak on this, as I have said, those details are not to be mentioned.

You couldn't just state this to begin with? Why all of the questions then?

You brought up a question on the process of the new cycles. That was an entirely different question than the original question about soul creation.

From your link:

Paul (originally as Saul of Tarsus) was an admitted persecutor of Christians who might have found a more effective way to undermine the followers of Jesus. Perhaps he infiltrated their ranks and taught a doctrine that opposed teachings attributed to Jesus on several fronts, replacing Jesus' alleged teaching of universal, compassionate, selfless action with a selfish teaching of desire to gain a "free gift" of salvation based only on faith and completely devoid of any behavioral requirement or obedience to law, and distracting us from the selfless teachings attributed to Jesus.

Not true. Paul never told anyone that the "free gift" of salvation was a free pass devoid of any behavioral requirement. He gave them plenty of instruction on keeping God's commandments. The "free gift" just didn't require sacrifices for the cleansing of sins. Ask for forgiveness and you receive. No animal sacrifice required.

Paul disagrees:

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Paul clearly states that salvation is free, whether you accept that is up to you.

Not true. Paul used the following verse after 1 Corinthians 13:11 to confirm what Jesus taught.

1 Corinthians 13:11-12

11 When I was a child, I spoke and thought and reasoned as a child. But when I grew up, I put away childish things.

12 Now we see things imperfectly, like puzzling reflections in a mirror, but then we will see everything with perfect clarity. All that I know now is partial and incomplete, but then I will know everything completely, just as God now knows me completely.

So him saying he put away childish things means he was as a child? Paul did go to heaven right?

I'm not really sure how you can just dismiss that so easily.

In his last teaching before going to the upper room for the Last Supper and the "beginning of the end," Jesus described in Matt. 25:31-45 the final judgment as being based solely and entirely on behavioral responses to internalized compassion. And Jesus makes it very clear that those who DO express universal compassion in behavioral action WILL BE SAVED, and those who do not will NOT be saved. Period. There is no other qualification.

Not true. The sheep and the goat judgement is not the final judgement. It is only the judgement that takes place before the start of the Millennium, not the New Jerusalem.

I was under the impression that the final judgement took place during the second coming. Matthew 25:31 says "When the Son of Man comes in his glory" refers directly to the second coming which is when final judgement takes place, so yes it is the final judgement.

Do I really need to go on?

Sure.

reply to post by jhill76


If you had an answer at all, you would have provided the detail by now.

I'm getting the impression that you just don't want to answer the question in detail about soul creation at this point.

reply to post by Deetermined

Yep. It's all true. That's what I've said and that's the way the Bible says will happen too. Sorry.

Perhaps you are being sarcastic. I really don't know at this point.
As far as the above statement and "apology" are concerned: Says you.

Hopeless, and predetermined.
I'm not buying it.

I have access to the Bible, too, Dee......
and I still don't feel that your personal "interpretation" is the correct one.

Fancy that?????!!!!!!!!!!
Hmmmmm.....

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


I'll tell you what, I'll go on and give more responses about Paul as soon as you can give me one thing from your own observance that Paul said that was against Jesus' teachings. If you have to, pick one from the link that you really think is viable and I'll address it, but let me know why you think Paul is lying about that pick.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

So him saying he put away childish things means he was as a child? Paul did go to heaven right?

I'm not really sure how you can just dismiss that so easily.

I have no idea what you're talking about. Can you elaborate??

As for Romans 6:23, yes the free gift of salvation is accepting that Jesus Christ brought us eternal life without having to give any other sacrifices as a repentance of sins. Jesus died for those sins so we wouldn't have. (As in permanent death).

Jesus said he would die for his sheep. Jesus told them to repent for their sins. Jesus told us he came so that we all might have eternal life.

So, once again, what is your point?

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by jhill76

 

If you had an answer at all, you would have provided the detail by now.

I'm getting the impression that you just don't want to answer the question in detail about soul creation at this point.

As I have stated before, I have parameters in which I must stay in, if something is outside of those parameters, I must ask to reveal. But, I will not leave this thread tonight without answering one way or another.

Do not let silence imply intent.

That's like saying, well God is not answering me now, I guess he has no intention of answering my prayers. It does not work like that.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

I was under the impression that the final judgement took place during the second coming. Matthew 25:31 says "When the Son of Man comes in his glory" refers directly to the second coming which is when final judgement takes place, so yes it is the final judgement.

No. Jesus comes (second coming) before the start of the Millennium. He'll reign from Jerusalem himself for 1,000 years before the final judgement. This is why I told everyone that I thought it was important that they study up on the Millennial period.

reply to post by wildtimes


Matthew 24:12-13

12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

There's plenty of mention of the increase of wickedness in the last days and how it will get continually worse. I'm not sure how you overlooked it.

reply to post by Deetermined

Jesus Christ brought us eternal life without having to give any other sacrifices as a repentance of sins

Again, I'm confused.

He brought us eternal life without having to give any other sacrifices??? ......

so "us" don't have to give any other sacrifices as repentance of sins"?

I'm probably misunderstanding you.

reply to post by Deetermined

I'm not sure how you overlooked it.

Deetermined,
I didn't "overlook it"......
I don't study the Bible. I go with what is in my heart, mind, soul, and gut.

But, again, it's all good. No worries.
I still believe we'll all get there, and that there are infinite reasons to explore the concepts of God and Jesus....and that collective positive thinking CAN change the trajectory of this world.

Where you have told me earlier "It will never change."

I beg to differ.
It CAN, and it MUST change.

reply to post by wildtimes


Actually, there's more to it than what I've stated.

Back in the day, people gave animal sacrifices to the Lord as a cleansing/toning of sins. Today we don't have to do that. Jesus sacrificed himself instead.

Even though people were performing animal sacrifices for their sins before Jesus, they still were not guaranteed eternal life until Jesus came. All souls went to Paradise or Sheol after they died. After Jesus died, and before he resurrected into his heavenly body on the third day, he went to release the souls in Paradise, so that they might have eternal life with God. It was not automatic that anyone would have eternal life WITH GOD until after Jesus came.

I hope that makes sense.

reply to post by Deetermined

I hope that makes sense.

I, too, hope it does..

reply to post by Deetermined


Jesus said you must be as little children to get into heaven, Paul responds with a big **** you by saying he threw childish things away. Do you take the word of Paul over Jesus'?

My point was: What is your point? You said that Paul never said that salvation was free which I debunked, so your "point" is not valid. Seems like you're arguing with yourself here.

reply to post by wildtimes

I beg to differ. It CAN, and it MUST change.

It will, but not until Jesus comes back to reign from Jerusalem and lock Satan up in the Abyss while he's here.

After the 1,000 years, Jesus releases Satan from the Abyss to let him wreak havoc one last time on the earth, but Jesus ends up throwing him in the Lake of Fire afterward. Unfortunately, the Bible only tells us that Satan is released from the Abyss for a short time, but it doesn't tell us how short that really is.

Then, Jesus/God creates a new heaven/earth (New Jerusalem) for all of us to live. A place where Satan has never been or will ever see. In the meanwhile, the old earth will be consumed by fire. For those of you who say that hell is right here on earth, you're probably right. This earth will become the Lake of Fire once the new earth is created.

reply to post by Deetermined


Yes, and the sheep and goat judgement is the final judgement after the second coming. If Jesus picks and chooses who goes to heaven and hell during the sheep and goats judgement then what is the final judgement exactly?