Mom calls 911 to help manage autitictic teen/ cops kill him

Seriously, unless someone is armed with a firearm, or weapon that can kill from a distance, there is no need to shoot them. I don't think the whole issue is lack of training. I think it is the officers' mindset. They appear eager to shoot people as that is their first reaction, instead of tazing them or using some other non-lethal method.

reply to post by newcovenant

Over use of force and a bad decision on the cops part, the kid in the pic may be an adult because he is 18 yrs old. But in no way does he look like he is capable of overpowering a police officer even one that may be in bad shape. The cop should of just tazed him, that would of in all likelihood stopped the whole thing, and tazers can be lethal some percentage of the time, but guns are lethal 100% of the time.

Some of these kids literally do not know how to function among people and there mind works differently, and when there off the drugs they do not why or how to respond, which in itself is a whole nother subject. The kid probably did not have any idea he was in deep water when he picked up the hammer and the yard clippers.

But really if they do not, then police should carry tazers or even shotguns with rubber bullets for these sort of situations, seeing as a great number of the populous has some sort of such disorder or is on some drug and seing how big the drug companies are and a whole bunch of other factors we can expect to see more people with autism and such things around. I do believe that it will come in handy and smooth the situation on both sides more effectively then deadly force weapons.

reply to post by ~Vixen~


Just because some cops are heroes, doesn't make every cop a hero. Just like some cops being killers doesn't mean all cops are. But you've got to admit, the number of citizens losing their lives at the hands of the police is downright alarming. The taser that was invented to be used as an alternative has instead found use in the crafty hands of LEO as a 'compliance tool,' which is double-speak for 'torture device.'

The media sold the public on this wonderful new lifesaving tool, and it hasn't saved a single life.

Between the killings, the beatings, the cronyism, the corruption, something is going to give, and I hope it gives soon.

It's not just on ATS that people are fed up with the actions of the police. Not just in America, either. People around the world have had enough of the heavy-handed tactics of the foot-soldiers of TPTB. If history has shown us anything its that the public can only be pushed so far before they start to push back. A great example of that came from Spain recently, when riot police rushed a group of protesters and were forced to retreat when the protestors closed ranks around them. It was glorious.

Originally posted by TheRealTruth84
reply to post by newcovenant

 

The Cop fired his gun six times!! WTF! It's called a tazer dip $h!t

I had 4 grandmal seizures when I was 19, my mom had to call 911 to help control me because I was violently out of control after each seizure, tossing couches and the likes. It took 2 cops and 2 EMT's to subdue and cuff me, they didn't use guns, mase, or tazers, they used good ol' fashioned brute force. After tossing them around like dolls for several minutes they restrained me and were able to get me to the hospital. This happened 6 years ago and up until a year ago I had no feeling in my pinky fingers from the nerve damage the cuffs did.

My purpose for this story is not to ramble about my past but rather show that even when all hell breaks loose, these emergency officials didn't lose their cool, they even took the time to visit me in the Hospital after I woke up from a week long coma.

The official that shot this kid should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law and thrown behind bars for years to come. This kid didn't even lay a finger on the officer and he pulled the trigger 6 times!!!!

Thank you for your post. I'm so grateful you were not injured - what a horrible thing to have to go through! I'm so glad you are here. Your example of how it CAN and SHOULD be done is perfect! And it takes a TEAM of people to help an out-of-control individual. You have solidified my feelings and thoughts (posted earlier) about how to help people in this situation.

peace,
AB

reply to post by Evanzsayz


You know, what you just said makes a lot of sense. These cops chose to put their lives on the line, and when it's threatened, they choose to protect themselves as they see necessary. I'm not making excuses, but you've helped me prove my point.

reply to post by killette82


No, the most dangerous jobs don't have shiny badges, they aren't that glamorous.

Here is a link to the ten most dangerous jobs. Police officer is not on the list.

money.cnn.com...

I don't have a grudge against police officers, but I think it is important to do as much as possible to stop and eliminate those officers who go too far. Danger and stress are not excuses for these over reactions to possible threats.

reply to post by moonzoo7


Considering how cheap and available motion cameras are thes days, I think every police encounter should be recorded. This should be a tool that helps police enforcement. That police agencies fight against recording all encounters, sure makes it look like they are more interested in hiding the truth, than keeping officers honest and increasing their ability to gather evidence.

In a job where you're constantly targeted by people because of the badge you wear on your chest, you tend to be a little skittish. Here's the thing that people don't understand when they hear these tragic stories. This cop is used to his life being threatened and using lethal force to protect himself.

reply to post by Echo3Foxtrot


And here we go...my favotite, shall we say, COP OUT. ( I'm not singling you out, please understand. The previous officer that I responded to complained about being a cop also ).
The last time I checked, you weren't conscripted onto the police force. You applied. You interviewed. You petitioned for the job, and I presume you had some amount of training.
Were you unaware of what being a police officer was like?
Why didn't you become a Fire Fighter? Pararmedic? Therapist?
( Oh yeah, none of those jobs get guns, batons and cool looking riot gear, and unlimited authority...sorry, I forgot about that part ).
But speaking of therapists, I assume you have access to free counseling to find some relief from all of the pressures of being a police officer. Obviously it is hard to work in Law Enforcement, seeing as to how you've been forced into the job and all.

Yeah, I'm being sarcastic, but in all honesty, I get tired of police complaining about the societal and professional repercussions of the job, and yet -amazingly - they stay in the job that they signed up for.
Let's get back to the heart of the issue, not your own personal foiables -
Why are the police so disrespected and disliked?
ANSWER: Because they routinely disrespect and abuse the citizenry. The game-changer has been all of the video cameras and smart phones. The very devices that were supposed to be used on US have been turned to be used on YOU, and you don't like it.

If you wanted to truly protect and serve, you could have chosen to be a Fire Fighter or any other number of jobs. You chose to be a cop. Either accept it or get another job, but please don't continue to whine about being disliked, as we, The Citizens ( or Civilians as you like to call us ), get tired of hearing it.
If you want respect, then treat us with respect. You get what you give.

reply to post by newcovenant


This is pretty awful and shouldn't have happened but the Mother should have called Emergency Ambulance instead of the Police!!

The Ambulance would have arrived with Staff who know how to deal with these people with problems.

To those who say why did she call 911 and ask for help? Well probably because she didn't want her son to get hurt trying to calm him down.She asked for professionals with training dealing with these kinds of situations to help calm him down not an assassin to exterminate. Had she wanted to kill him to protect herself she probably would have herself. I'm quite sure that as a parent she would have chosen to get killed long before choosing to have him killed even in self defense

I am wondering who you would have had her rather call? Batman and Robin perhaps?I migh have but sadly they are fictional characters so the second best to that is well 911 i guess - or am I missing something here?

It is a sad day when those who are there to protect and support us untrained civilians in difficult situations do not have enough training to chose to handle the situation in a way that avoids this kind of event. This whole shoot to kill training is ridiculous. Why not learn how to shoot to injure or perhaps learn to reason under pressure where there might have been a number of other choices the officer could have made. All it takes is enough training because when under pressure we do what we are trained to do - auto response takes over any long reasoning processes. This is kinder garden mentality in my opinion and no better than thugs shooting each other over ridiculous things like what someone said in a song or religious fanatics killing innocent people over books.

I'm usually not one for strong language but it's only to conclude that homo sapiens sapiens is being (d)evolved into Homo Sapiens Tardus.

Originally posted by TruthxIsxInxThexMist
reply to post by newcovenant

 

This is pretty awful and shouldn't have happened but the Mother should have called Emergency Ambulance instead of the Police!!

The Ambulance would have arrived with Staff who know how to deal with these people with problems.

Had the guy came at the EMTs with a weapon, they would have called the police. No EMT wants to get a sharp object in the gut. How do you think they could have calmed him down? Vulcan death grip?

It is a sad situation all around, but it is very easy to say that someone could easily subdue a violent, armed, and irrational individual from the comfort of the keyboard.

reply to post by NavyDoc


Yep ...............I really really wish you guys would go ask your local deparment about doing a ride along. Guarantee you would see something you would not, could not, or wouldn't want to do in that 12 hour shift that cop works. Its so sad that people like me are looked at as being responsible for what a few bad apples do. I mean really.... out of the 1 million cops in america you have a some excessive force issues. I can see that no doubt there are police officers violating rights all the time. Now take a city with 1 million people...like Charlotte NC. Now how many citizens out that population commit assaults, murders and other violent activities on a daily basis. Those are your peers might I add since it seems to be an us against them mentality around here. So whats the percentage of violent crimes the general population commits versus those law enforcement commits while both on and off duty out of the same popluation of said city. Even out of the whole nation vs. that one city I guarantee its a sub 1 percent for lawenforcement even with the things that never get reported.

reply to post by TheRealTruth84

I had 4 grandmal seizures when I was 19, my mom had to call 911 to help control me because I was violently out of control after each seizure, tossing couches and the likes. It took 2 cops and 2 EMT's to subdue and cuff me, they didn't use guns, mase, or tazers, they used good ol' fashioned brute force. After tossing them around like dolls for several minutes they restrained me and were able to get me to the hospital.

Police do not have super strength.
Police are not required to accept being tossed around like rag dolls.
Anyone that can toss a couch around is exibiting abnormal strength.
You are lucky.
If you had a deadly weapon would likely have been shot. Not with a taser.

Now to you arm chair officers out there:
Would you have gotten into a tangle with someone like this if he had weapons? Even if you had a partner.

The police don't hold off running a call until they can assemble a team. They have to show up ASAP even if it is just one officer. This officer likely knew of the potential strength of this or any kid off his meds. He had to handle things until other help arrived. If the kid charged before extra help came...

Now has anyone read where the officer was charged with a crime? Or even disciplined?

If not then he acted correctly.

reply to post by killette82


A few bad apples. That line's a laugh. We've been hearing that one from commissioners and sheriffs and the officers themselves for years now. In Canada, it's the RCMP's favorite line to explain away the rampant abuse and corruption evident in the force.

Judging by the number of times that line has been used, there must be a hell of a lot more than a few bad apples.

Maybe police forces should do a bit of a better job of seeing if said apple is bad or not before giving said bad apple a badge and a gun and a license to run roughshod over the rights of the citizens they supposedly work for.

As I have suggested on this site before: If you call 911 and mention the presence of a weapon, you are going to get police and maybe a SWAT team with guns drawn, fingers on triggers, and adrenaline pumping. Is that the best solution? Maybe yes, maybe no depending on the circumstances. Make sure that's what you really want before you make that phone call.

I've dealt with situations like this many times. Fortunately non ended lethally. I worked with developmentally disabled kids, which include autistic, who have the worst behavioral issues mostly violent toward themselves and others. I was specialty trained in non-violent crisis intervention and became a trainer for my company to teach our employees how to handle such crisis situations. Out of 10 years, I only had to call the police a handful of times. The worst outcome was a situation very similar to this one where the individual's behavior became too violent for even our highly trained staff to manage. The police did end up using a taser after the guy busted out a sliding glass door. It was a tough situation, but due to my experience in this area, I have a few thoughts.

1. If you've never worked with people who have developmental disabilities, you have NO reference point to pass judgement on who is capable of handling the situation. I've seen a 90 lb young girl lift 3 grown adults off the floor as they tried to hold her down.

2. Depending on the area there are different protocols for police. IMO I don't think deadly force was necessary based on the info given, but I wasn't there so I can't say for sure.

3. I'd bet anything that this was not this kids first violent rampage. In my experience, many parents don't seek help until their kids become teens and can no longer physically control them. I blame a complete lack of education on the parents part.

4. I do believe that LE should have more training in interacting with and diffusing crisis situations involving mentally impaired people, however they usually take any act of real or perceived aggression the same as anyone else and when weapons are involved, well that complicates things greatly. They don't know what anyone is capable of and LE act accordingly.

5. I'm interested to know why the mothe said he has autisim and then says he has severe brain damage. Those are two very different things. Autism is congenital, brain damage is trauma. There's a lot of missing background and info left out of this story.

6. If this child was that violent then he should not have been living at home without support from trained professionals at the very least. Here in Cali, developmentally delayed and disabled persons have rights protected by the Lanterman Act and it provides for a multitude of help, treatment, and education. People need to take responsibility and find the help they need for themselves and their special needs kids. The help is out there, and at least here in Cali it is very easy to get started.

7. I realize people are up in arms and outraged about this, but I really don't think most have the frame of reference to make such judgement. Most people don't even understand that autism is a very broad diagnosis and term. There's so many factors and is a spectrum disorder. You can't use your personal interaction with one autistic child you may know and apply it here. There's no cookie cutter cases... I've worked with hundreds of kids and no two were exactly the same.

Bottom line everyone needs more education, training and understanding of special needs people. Intervention is necessary early to avoid out of control violent episodes such as this. I'm very troubled by a lot of the comments to this thread. So many people think they know what they're talking about and in this case they really don't. I hope both the LE AND THE MOTHER ARE INVESTIGATED. There are multiple failures at play here on all sides. I truly hope this young man is at peace and we all can learn a lot from this.

Nets...the ACLU would have a field day with that. Some of you watch too much Spiderman. Now lets get back to reality.
I have tazed, as well as, been tazed with the X26 tazer. It is no joke when it is deployed as designed. Both probes must engage for it to be effective. Both probes can penetrate through 2-3 inches of clothing and must imbed into the flesh for full operation. It will deliver a pulse charge 50,000 volts at 2milliampres. This pulse charge both mimics and jams brain signals to large muscle groups. At the same time, produces a massive pain response. One cycle, is 5 seconds in police models and 30 seconds in civilian models. Recovery time is immediate. So the target is not incompassitated long at all. If both probes do not engage, only the pain response will occur, not disabling the target. Once a cartridge is used, a new one must be loaded. Even if both probes hit, a focused individual can still not be incompassitated (1-2% of the population will not be affected by tazer). If pepper spray is deployed, the tazer cannot be used, as due to the flammable properties of the propellant. If used after being sprayed, the electrical charge could ignite the persons clothing causing serious injury or death.

Now, if the subject cannot be "talked down", the use of force continuum will be continued to be followed by the officer. Yes, moving up use of force could be a matter of seconds.
USE OF FORCE CONTINUUM:
1. Presence - Uniformed presence
2. Descalation - Talking or calming of subject. Giving commands to comply.
3. Soft hands - Physical escorts, joint locks, take downs.
4. Hard hands - Strikes to torso or extremities. Strikes to neck or head is lethal force.
5. Non-lethal force - Tazer, sprays, beanbag rounds
6. Lethal force - Force which could lead to permanent injury or death. broken bones, guns, edged weapons.
Officers are trained to be one level above the subject on the Use of Force Continuum, for their safety and that of others. It does not matter if the subject is deranged, drugged, or otherwise as this does not change the UOFC. The young man was already at the highest level of force. The officer started at the lowest until which point the same amount of appropriate force had to be used. This was a very tragic scenario, however, if you are being advanced on by someone with weapons and do not make a split second decision, you will die. I have seen autistic persons exhibit high pain thresholds and still resist with great strength.
My main issue is why were there no other officers on scene to help contain the situation. Anytime weapons are suspected it is a multiple officer response. Perhaps the situation unraveled at a rapid pace. IDK. One nagging question is still not answered. If this person had a history of violence, why were they allowed access to hedge clippers and hammers?

This is my first comment on this board, so hello ATS.

This story can be seen from two perspectives, obviously, I'm not going to condescend people by forcing them to read what those sides are; I'm guessing they know.

Autism is hard for people to deal with. They don't have the social conscience other people have, and they don't 'rationalize' as we do. Act and react is their way of life.
The police officer in question may have been a brilliant man with an upstanding record, a man of merit who was loved by his community - but, as usual, all I'm seeing is the anti-police brigade have a bash and the pro-police brigade have a go at him, and the mother. What happened to objective opinion? This man may regret this decision for the rest of his life, living in constant moral torment. You should pray for him, not hate or judge him. You fight violence with love, not violence.
I see this all over this site, it's what stopped me from posting about 3000 times. People instantly make an assumption of character; background; class and lifestyle from one segment of one story that may or may not be true. They then juxtapose this onto their world-view and that's it. No further investigation required. Come on guys, let's stop this.

I feel so sorry for this lady, her pain will be unbearably hard. No parent should see their child die. It must of taken a part of her soul with it. Just as it 'MAY' have taken a piece of the officers.
I feel sorry for everyone in this situation. I pray the officer does the right thing and apologises, completely. And i hope the mother can forgive him. I had a friend who was murdered in cold blood, and his mother forgave the killer.
This world has far too much separation and hate. Let's put it behind us.

Again, hello ATS. I look forward to a long, healthy community activity

Shooting never has to occur in these situations ever. Lemme pop the bubble for those that think so; England has citizens with autism and people with other metal imbalances....and NO GUNS. So how do you think they shoot suspects dead? That's right they don't. Someone may catch a billy club...and live to see another day; but here in the US, oh no you're going to catch every bullet, the officer can squeeze off in a panic...

Originally posted by Siberbat
USE OF FORCE CONTINUUM:
3. Soft hands - Physical escorts, joint locks, take downs.
4. Hard hands - Strikes to torso or extremities. Strikes to neck or head is lethal force.
5. Non-lethal force - Tazer, sprays, beanbag rounds
6. Lethal force - Force which could lead to permanent injury or death. broken bones, guns, edged weapons.

For anybody but a cop:

Soft hands - Assault.
Hard hands - Assault.
Non-lethal force - Assault with a weapon.
Lethal force - Murder.

How do you not understand that to a large segment of the population, somebody with the right to do those things to you if you don't follow their commands just doesn't sit right with them?

I'm not naive, I know that I only have the illusion of freedom. But God damnit, I'd like to hang on to that illusion for a little while longer at least.

If an officer orders me to do something because he suspects, in his infinite wisdom, that I might be up to something suspicious, then I do it. Because that officer has the right to assault me if I don't follow his orders, he has the right to beat and tase me if I resist said assault. Even if no crime has been committed.

And if I decided that enough is enough, that I won't have my freedoms trampled anymore by a thug hiding behind a shield, and decide to defend myself, then he has the right to kill me, and will be hailed as a hero for it.