"Tolerance" bully at Chic-fil-A

Originally posted by BASSPLYR
Calm Down, Take a deep Breath. Stop being so reactionary.

Well I agree that the guy in the video is a jerk. He has made a statement in the one of the least useful ways. Second I never said the guy was gay because he has a lisp. I have a friend who has a severe lisp and he is super straight. No wait I know two guys like that actually. Both totally strait.

What was said is that the guy was "ultra-feminine" and "looked gay". That is perceiving and identifying someone as gay, solely because of gay stereotypes. That's the only thing I am protesting about that. With that being said, I don't know anyone who has a severe lisp, but what I do know is that I don't really know anyone's sexuality, I don't know if this guy is gay or not. None of us truly know what a person does behind closed doors unless their open about it. But I won't assume someone is gay solely based on their gestures.

I will calm down a bit, I'm not trying to attack or go on a warpath but I don't like stereotypes being used to categorize people.

As a guy you know just as well as any other guy if the guy next to you is gay. You yourself admit having gaydar! It's not just for gay people. All guys have it. DO you deny your gaydar is very accurate? Cause you just said it works pretty damned good. SO why would you think that it's not a guy thing to posses gaydar and only a gay thing? All guys have gaydar. For 99.9% of the men in the world its very accurate. If a bunch of guys say some other guy is gay then he probably is.

Gaydar is biological, it is true everyone has at the very least the potential to have it and it be accurate, but actually women have better gaydar than men as a means to identify a man as a potential mate for them. My gaydar is very accurate; the thing is, I don't identify someone as potentially being gay based on their gestures or how they speak. I identify someone as potentially gay based on their aura. Plus since I'm attractive and a natural flirt I can test a guy's reactions to that and see how he responds. A lot of men who say they're straight or are in relationships with women are not straight whatsoever. But to say that all men know a guy is gay off-the-bat is completely false. I don't know many straight men who knew Gareth Thomas was gay, for example, as I read all the time how straight guys are surprised someone as masculine as Gareth is into men. A lot (not all) straight guys identify someone as gay based on if a guy is masculine or feminine and gay stereotypes. That is not an accurate way of identifying someone as gay.

What I don't get is simply because most guys are able to easily tell if someone is gay or not that you automatically assume it means the guys have anything against gays? Most of the guys I know don't care one way or the other which way a dude swings.

Because gay stereotypes are not an accurate way of identifying a person as gay, and are used to look down on gay men.

But one could argue that since humans have evolved into being social animals there is a strong biological need to know who's who in the pecking order of a tribe. Who's the alpha male etc... Ever think that our ability to perceive other sexual preference might have something to do with our biological evolution into a social species with a cast system or order?

That is very much the main reason why gaydar exists, as a means to identify, maybe not as a pecking order per se, but to, as you said, know who's who. Especially for women who seek a mate to come together and create life with. But simply because gaydar exists does not mean it's accurate for everyone. For many, gaydar is very inaccurate.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
All the owner of Chick-Fil-A said was that he supports traditional marriage. He didn't call for any action against gay people or anything .. he just said that his faith is such that he supports traditional marriage. What is pathetic is that people who are screaming for 'tolerance', refuse to tolerate that this fella has a right to his religious beliefs. He didn't hurt anyone and he didn't do anything except answer a question that was put to him ... 'where do you stand on gay marriage'.

I support Gay Marriage as a civil right. I also support the constitutional right of the owner of Chick-fil-a to have his religious beliefs and to be able to answer a question about those religious beliefs. The owner did NOTHING against gay people by answering the question.

The 'boycott Chic-fil-A' thing is absurd and intolerant. But whatever floats their boats ...

I agree and would like to add to this.

I also have no problems with gays or gay marriage. LGBT's have the right to be just as miserable as anyone in a traditional marriage. But I do have a problem with the LGBT's attempts to rectalize the issue whenever ANYTHING does not go their way. The LGBT's shout "tolerance" at the top of their lungs, but allow none in return. Freedom of Speech is a one way street where it's their way or the highway. They want traditional Americans to "sit down and shut up", but we aren't buying that routine.

At some point I would hope that some bit of decorum could be established and that can only happen when the "messengers" realize they are the problem, not the message. It appears to be that it's no longer how to "play the game", it's how hypocritical can you be in attempting to "win" at all costs!! The end does not justify the means!!! This CFO is a case in point.

May I suggest this as a start to a fair and positive discussion of this "issue":

Step One

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone
Yeah, the truth of the matter is militant homosexuals are just bullies seeking to force people into submission, while claiming everyone has to tolerate them.

Very, very true. I would also add anti-Christ and Christianphobic.

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone
Yeah, the truth of the matter is militant homosexuals are just bullies

A militant anything is a bully.

Fortunately - few people are militant.

I'm beyond tired of people TELLING ME I have to tolerate they being anti-gay and tolerate they criticizing and attacking my community.

No, I don't have to tolerate you. I don't and I won't tolerate it. Stop telling me what I need to tolerate. I DO NOT tolerate anything anti-gay. Period.

It's like telling black people to tolerate the KKK or telling the military to be tolerant of Westboro Baptist. Why is it whenever it's HOMOSEXUALITY being discussed, suddenly it becomes valid to be against gay people, against gay marriage, against the gay community. Yet when it's about RACISM, SEXISM, NATIVISM, you don't see many defending those who hold such negative views. It's so obvious, it's so blatant, it's representative of a society that doesn't really see gay people as equal. And I'm not going to take it.

If you don't want to be criticized for being anti-gay, don't be anti-gay. If you choose to be anti-gay, you choose criticism that comes with it.

reply to post by Annee


You'd be surprised by how many there actually are.

But then again, you're one of the militant bullies, so I wouldn't really count on any fairness from you.

Originally posted by crazydaysandnights
The media by and large has turned it into a Christian vs Liberal war because that is a good way to create drama.

Yup I can see how that would work up a nice storm to sell newspapers and get everyone fighting with each other and whilst they are being distracted they wont see what dastardly deeds the big corporations / governments are really getting up to which will affect everyone - straights, gays and bis.

Being 'anti-gay or homophobic' is not 'incorrect', it is just a point of view and how someone feels about something. What is 'incorrect' is forcing that opinion down everyone's throats and thinking that your opinion is the only one that everyone else should have too, that is disrespectful.

I believe in respect, not tolerance. Tolerance is fake. But respect is something that is concrete. Respect people and treat people the way you want to be treated. But as we can all see, social conservatives don't do that with LGBT citizens. They treat LGBT citizens like trash. So they've earned every bit of backlash they are receiving.

I don't see how you can say tolerance is fake. In what way is it fake? Both tolerance and respect kind of go hand in hand because one needs tolerance in order to live in harmony with people who have less respect for others than is your own bench mark of respectfulness. Tolerance allows humans to have differences of opinion, do annoying habits or have annoying behaviour and still be friends/neighbours/ exist together without killing each other. But tolerance has a limit, e.g. your neighbour has a loud party, it doesn't happen often and so you put up with the loud music all night, live and let live, BUT, when it over steps the tolerance level and becomes a weekly or more event and there is shouting and fighting etc happening regularly then this is now no longer a tolerable annoyance but an intolerable aggravation and there are laws set up to stop this happening thus preventing people from killing each other in frustration and anger because some people have no respect for anyone but themselves.
Sadly society seems to be degenerating into a mass of disrespectful selfish brats who can only think of themselves and who openly show hate for everyone out with their groups and treat them like 'trash', however, I don't think this attitude is contained solely within the 'social conservatives' .

Criticism isn't hate, though. Singing God Bless America as a means to bond in support of being anti-gay, and spitting in the foods of people perceived to be gay, is hate.

Criticism can be hate, it depends on how it is done. Criticism, whilst never enjoyed, can be constructive if given with an aim to improvement and not done with malice but with caring, but criticism unleashed with the sole purpose of bringing someone down is indeed done with hate and malice. People who spit on other peoples food are gross and disgusting, but I am quite sure it is not just the gay sector of society that this happens to.

You're right, he isn't the only bigot, and other bigoted corporations/bigoted CEO's of corporations are also being boycotted.

Yup, as I said before, if you don't like the ethos of a company, for whatever reason, then vote with your feet/purchasing power.

Can we be friends now?

reply to post by crazydaysandnights


I'm beyond tired of people TELLING ME I have to tolerate they being anti-straight and tolerate they criticizing and attacking my beliefs.

No, I don't have to tolerate you. I don't and I won't tolerate it. Stop telling me what I need to tolerate. I DO NOT tolerate anything pro-bully Period.

If you don't want to be criticized for being a bully, don't be a bully. If you choose to be a bully, you choose criticism that comes with it.

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone
reply to post by Annee

 

You'd be surprised by how many there actually are.

But then again, you're one of the militant bullies, so I wouldn't really count on any fairness from you.

I make statements. I provide information.

When do I call you names or bully you by attacking you?

You tend to get very personal and emotional in your posts. I don't.

reply to post by Annee


Baloney, you've attacked me quite often in these kinds of threads. It doesn't matter if I show you where you have or not, you will never admit you were wrong in doing so.

You also attack anybody who believes in God as well. You always do what you can to correct people because you and only you have all the right answers.

So don't play your stupid games with me.

And don't try to turn this around as well.

Originally posted by crazydaysandnights

WSJ is notably conservative, so I wouldn't really look to them for anything, due to their bias. Unlike WSJ, there is no bias in brand index scores. Now, I will agree, 6 months, and IMO more like 6-9 months rather than 3-6, we will see what the true impact is regarding the backlash against CFA. Personally, I think it's pretty clear the company has lost more consumers than they have gained, but the consumers of their product are, right now, extremely galvanized and supporting CFA strongly. But after this storyline runs it's course, these people will go back to their old routines for the most part. And that is when we'll see just how damaged CFA is. I don't think CFA will lose too much money out of their bottom line but they have definitely destroyed their chance at going national, and that alone means a loss of billions. Especially since liberals/gays have more disposable income, there is no doubt CFA has been impacted.

BTW, the YouGov brand index scores...........it wasn't a survey. And their methodology did not assume decline, what it does is it takes positive and negative feedback and weighs them together and comes up with the numbers. And what has happened is that there has been more negative than positive feedback regarding CFA since this entire drama began. That won't change, because NOW is when those supporting CFA are the most focused on the issue, the most supportive.

And everything I said about Wisconsin is true.

We will have to agree to disagree... I don't think people are going to hold grudges against Chick-Fil-A and they will net more customers out of this. Now the whole World knows about Chick-Fil-A......that really does mean something. They haven't destroyed their chance at going national and are still a very strongly run company. Like both of us have said, lets revisit their position in about 6 to 9 months and see how they have been affected either way.

Most of the gays I know have rather coarse personalities. They conceal it with a very thin veneer of "openness" with completely shallow and fake "friendliness", which is easily shattered by the slightest misperception that you may not be 1000% supportive of every aspect of every fallacy THEY hold dear....even if it's not part of your own traditional beliefs.

That's just how it is. They are a frail lot, but nature or by nurture, it can't be denied.

reply to post by pavil


Personally, I don't think they'll be hurt in the long run. This is just tempers flaring, is all it is and eventually people will calm down and say how stupid they were and have a laugh over it.

i really don't think they'll be hurt at all, but only time will tell.

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone
reply to post by Annee

 

Baloney, you've attacked me quite often in these kinds of threads. It doesn't matter if I show you where you have or not, you will never admit you were wrong in doing so.

Prove it.

You also attack anybody who believes in God as well. You always do what you can to correct people because you and only you have all the right answers.

Prove it.

Originally posted by Oldnslo
I agree and would like to add to this.

I also have no problems with gays or gay marriage. LGBT's have the right to be just as miserable as anyone in a traditional marriage. But I do have a problem with the LGBT's attempts to rectalize the issue whenever ANYTHING does not go their way. The LGBT's shout "tolerance" at the top of their lungs, but allow none in return.

Again, another individual throwing out the tolerance BS. No-one in the LGBT community is seeking tolerance. I don't want tolerance. Tolerance is fake. Tolerance is disgust and hate disguised as love. Tolerance is disingenuous. So no, no-one is asking for tolerance, we are demanding equality and expecting respect and basic human decency. Since none of those things are coming our way from the other side, don't expect us to be nice. Those days have ended. We're not going to be nice to people who are against our community and our equality. Being anti-gay is wrong and if you choose to be anti-gay or defend anti-gay behavior, then you are opposed to the gay communities' best interest and not a friend nor ally.

That's what it comes down to. You're either a true supporter or a fake friend. Guess we see where you stand.

Freedom of Speech is a one way street where it's their way or the highway.

Nope, you bigots have free speech. But so do we. Free speech cuts both ways. No-one is saying a bigot can't spew bigotry. But I can call them out on that bigotry accordingly, because that's what freedom of speech entails.

They want traditional Americans to "sit down and shut up", but we aren't buying that routine.

No-one cares what you buy. No-one cares what you think. Stop forcing your beliefs on me and my people, stop going out of your way to attack my community, and there won't be problems.

At some point I would hope that some bit of decorum could be established and that can only happen when the "messengers" realize they are the problem, not the message.

Actually, the message is the problem. Being anti-gay is the message, and being anti-gay is the problem. As for decorum, I'm pretty sure beating up LGBT people in hate crimes and saying marriage equality will lead to social destruction is NOT showing much class or civilized decency. You get what you give, and anti-gays sure aren't giving much of anything but garbage and hate.

May I suggest this as a start to a fair and positive discussion of this "issue":

Step One

There is nothing to discuss and I don't care to make friends. No-one is going to grovel to your people and kiss your ass to gain your acceptance. No-one gay/gay supportive cares what any of you think to that extent.

At the end of the day, you either support the gay community or you don't. And if you don't you ARE NOT a friend of ours and not someone we want to associate with.

reply to post by crazydaysandnights


I've read your comments on this thread, to me and others, and you appear FAR more interested in creating divisions between yourself and others, than on creating common ground, much like the guy featured in this video. You use your own emotional anger and try and translate that into how 'all teh gays' feel. Its simply not accurate. I know quite a few 'gays' who dont self-identify with your college-age-gay angst.

Furthermore, you claimed over 12 hours ago that this has hurt CFA's bottom line, but you have yet to provide proof of that claim, even after I directly asked you for it while you were online last night. You ignored this request, and and still are. Why is that?[/b[

That's what it comes down to. You're either a true supporter or a fake friend. Guess we see where you stand.

Hitler said that too, to Jews.

But who cares, right?

Why do you deserve basic human rights and dignity if you're not willing to give it to anybody else? You don't. You're just a damned bully, and not everyone agrees with you either.

Originally posted by bhornbuckle75
reply to post by stanguilles7

 

While I agree with you, that this guy is a bit of a jack-ass.....I think it's a bit wrong to lump all liberals in with this guy's behavior. I don't know of a single one of my lib friends that go around acting like this. Everyone I know that hates Chic-fil-A (including myself) are sending them a message in best most productive way possible...by not giving them any of our service!

It's not easy either.....Why do they have to make such damn good waffle fries!

I totally agree. (well, idont know much about their fries, bu the rest of your point i agree with). I'm not saying all 'liberals' are treating this issue this way. In fact, I dont know any actual liberals IRL who treat this issue this way. My friends and I just think its stupid. But there DO appear to be a lot of peopele on the 'left' who are making FAR TOO MUCH out of this nonissue and this guy highlights it perfectly.

Originally posted by InsideYourMind
I'm sorry, Looking at the replies to this video... is ATS some kind of gay-hate site aswell? (at least a majority of members seem to be).

What is wrong with voicing your opinion about a corporation's stance on discrimination and hate?

The dude did nothing wrong.

I feel that most, if not all, anti-gay rhetoric comes from religon, thankfully for me, I'm not religous and I have ZERO problem with 2 men marrying or 2 females marrying, to each their own...

As far as your comment about not having a problem with the clip, I have to disagree with you there. My only issue with the clip is that the guy took the wrong avenue to be heard, if he had a problem with Chic-fil-a he should have went to their corporate office, not to a local chain where the workers inside have nothing to do with the main story we read about today...

Originally posted by BrutalDictator
Most of the gays I know have rather coarse personalities. They conceal it with a very thin veneer of "openness" with completely shallow and fake "friendliness", which is easily shattered by the slightest misperception that you may not be 1000% supportive of every aspect of every fallacy THEY hold dear....even if it's not part of your own traditional beliefs.

That's just how it is. They are a frail lot, but nature or by nurture, it can't be denied.

Coarse personalities? No. In fact, the opposite is true. We're extremely loyal friends and bubbly and fun to be around, in general more worldly and intelligent compared to the rest of society, more in touch with our emotions, and more real. But that's when we feel comfortable opening up to people, and are associating with people who are, you know, actually pro-gay.

With anti-gays, we don't give you all the time of day. At least that's how me and my friends, gay and straight, operate. I don't pretend to be friendly around anti-gays, and you're right, most gays don't hide the fact we DON'T LIKE anti-gays. Just as much as anti-gays dislike gay people, it's the same in reverse.

What people like you don't get is when you have to hear how dirty, gross, evil, bad, sinful, deviant you are on a daily basis, you become less secure in your surroundings, more aware of the world around you and people you associate with, and more protective and defensive. So if you're somehow criticizing LGBT folk for not immediately being all kissy-kissy and opening up to the first person we see, that's because most of us have been hurt in the past by people who say they support us, by family, by homophobia in general. That is yet another reason why it's clear that homophobia is a social dysfunction, because it harms people, it harms relationships, and it causes polarization and angst between different groups who could conceivably be great friends. But homophobia gets in the way of that.