Did the Holocaust Really Happen?

The final solution, a plan to exterminate entire ethnic groups off the face of the earth, starting with, but not ending with the Jews, is a blight on modern-day society. But did it really happen?

Recently the writer of the current thread received a comment that affirms the following (on another thread of mine):
www.abovetopsecret.com...

First of all the Jehovah's Witnesses did not speak out against the atrocities against the Jews because there were no [sic]atrocites.Thats[sic] a fact whether you like it or not.

This statement was made by Viking9019 in response to a comment about Jehovah’s Witnesses speaking out against the atrocities perpetrated upon the Jews, homosexuals, gypsies and others, while the rest of main-stream religion stood by silently, and even helped Hitler achieve the power he needed to perpetrate these crimes against humanity.

Recently another thread created by a moderator of this board talks about the rise in pro-Hitler statements, and the denying of the holocaust (see www.abovetopsecret.com...).

Researching Jehovah’s Witness publications show that we were exposing details about the Holocaust and warning the world about the threat of Nazism long before the world in general knew what was going on. For example the magainze Consolation now known as Awake! stated in 1939:

“How can one remain silent about the horrors of a land where, as in Germany, 40,000 innocent persons are arrested at one time; where 70 of them were executed in a single night in one prison; . . . where all homes, institutes and hospitals for the aged, the poor, and the helpless, and all orphanages for the children, are destroyed?”

In 1929 before Hitler* came into power the journal The Golden Age boldly stated: : “National Socialism is . . . a movement that is acting . . . directly in the service of man’s enemy, the Devil.”

The same journal, The Golden Age January 4, 1933 made the statement:

“There looms forth the menacing promontory of the National Socialist movement. It seems incredulous that a political party so insignificant in its origin, so heterodox in its policies, can, in the space of a few years, develop into proportions that overshadow the structure of a national government. Yet Adolf Hitler and his national socialist party (the Nazis) have accomplished this rare feat.”

Jehovah’s Witnesses were imcompatible with Hitler’s government. Why was that? We believe that God’s kingdom is the only solution to mankind’s problems, and that as true Christians we cannot put any state government above God, and we cannot kill our brother, even if they are of differing ethnic or racial backgrounds. Thus we refused to Heil Hitler, and to participate in his war efforts. Hitler was determined to stamp out Jehovah’s Witnesses from the face of the earth because, unlike the rest of main-stream religions under his government, we refused to support his war efforts.

While the Catholic Church cuddled up with Hitler, and actually the Pope stating that he was God’s means of brining His kingdom to the earth, we peacefully refused to participate in his war efforts. Many, on this site as well, have called those Witnesses who faced abuse by their peers, expulsion from work, abuse from teachers, and classmates, expulsion from school, arrest, torture, and death, cowards for refusing to participate in Hitler’s war effort. But far be it from being a “brain-washed” sect, this small group of true Christians proved that the Bible’s teaching of love was greater than a tyrannical ruler and his entire Nazi regimen. They showed true moral courage and integrity amdist all adversity, willing to give up their lives before harming a fellow human.

Few know that unlike the victims of the Holocaust, such as the Jews, and gypsies, all the Jehovah’s Witnesses had to do to get out of jail, or the persecution camps was to sign a letter rejecting Jehovah God and affirming that Hitler was their leader. All they had to do was put their signature down on a piece of paper. But the majority preferred to suffer and in fact be put to death than compromise their integrity.

The first persons in the concentration camps were Jehovah’s Witnesses. In the early days they made up the largest concentration of prisoners besides the Jews.

After the war Madame Geneviève de Gaulle niece of former President Charles de Gaulle, who spent time in Ravensburk and met the Jehovah’s Witnesses in the camp stated: ““They were among the first deportees in the camp. Many had already died . . . We recognized them by their distinctive badge. . . . It was absolutely forbidden for them to talk about their beliefs or to have any religious books, and especially the Bible, which was considered the supreme book of sedition. . . . I know of [one of Jehovah’s Witnesses], and there were others I was told, who was executed for having a few pages of Bible texts. . . . What I admired a lot in them was that they could have left at any time just by signing a renunciation of their faith. Ultimately, these women, who appeared to be so weak and worn out, were stronger than the SS, who had power and all the means at their disposal. [Jehovah’s Witnesses] had their strength, and it was their willpower that no one could beat.”


So what is this documented proof that the holocaust really did occur?


....continued

On June 20, 1937 Jehovah’s Witnesses who had not been arrested by the gestapo and put in the concentration camps distributed nationwide in Germany a pamphlet that detailed the persecution that they were facing. It gave detailed names of officials of the gestapo involved in their arrests, it gave times, and places. The gestapo was appalled at the organization involved in exposing what they were doing.

The booklet Face The Facts written out of a drive of love for their fellowman was printed in 1938 and exposed the claims of Hitler that his “Third Reich” would lead to God’s thousand-year-reign on earth. In part it stated:

“We must tell the truth and give the warning…We recognize the totalitarian government . . . as the product of Satan brought forth as the substitute for God’s kingdom.”

In the same year of 1938 a resolution entitled Warning! was adopted at a convention of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Seattle, Washington , USA. In part it stated:

: “The Fascists and Nazis, radical political organizations, have wrongfully seized control of many countries of Europe . . . All the people will be regimented, all their liberties taken away, and all will be compelled to yield to the rule of an arbitrary dictator and then the ancient Inquisition will be fully revived.”

During those years the President of the Watchtower Society, known as Judge Rutherford, took to the airwaves regularly to speak out against the horrible nature of the Nazi government. On October 2, 1938, he delivered the radio address, “Fascism or Freedom,” [You can hear the radio broadcast here: archive.org... I urge you to take the time to do so.] In part he boldly proclaimed:

“In Germany the common people are peace-loving…The Devil has put his representative Hitler in control, a man who is of unsound mind, cruel, malicious and ruthless . . . He cruelly persecutes the Jews because they were once Jehovah’s covenant people and bore the name of Jehovah, and because Christ Jesus was a Jew.”

This was a very powerful expose of Hitler. Please take the time to listen to this broadcast, and consider the facts as they were exposed, even before World War II even started!

The Nazi could not stand how utterly Jehovah’s Witnesses were exposing what they were trying to do in private, they stepped up their persecution of Jehovah’s people in Nazi controlled Europe. The May 15, 1940 issue of Consolation stepped up its attack of that wicked ruler stating:

“Hitler is such a perfect child of the Devil that these speeches and decisions flow through him like water through a well-built sewer.”

And while it is true that the general public was kept ignorant of the holocaust being perpetrated in the heart of Nazi controlled Europe until after the war, it is not because of the silence of Jehovah’s Witnesses. We exposed their camps early and constantly.

For example

Consolation

in 1938 told of experiments of poison gas at Dachau. By 1940 had named 20 different camps and exposed their unspeakable conditions.

Again, how did Jehovah’s Witnesses have such intimate knowledge of the concentration camps? It is because by the start of World War II over 6,000 were already in them. German historian Detlef Garbe stated: “Of the 25,000 persons who admitted to being Jehovah’s Witnesses at the beginning of the Third Reich, about 10,000 were imprisoned for any length of time. Of these, over 2,000 were admitted to concentration camps. This means that the Jehovah’s Witnesses were, with the exception of the Jews, the worst persecuted by the SS of all the religious based groups.”

Consolation June 1940, stated:

“There were 3,500,000 Jews in Poland when Germany began its Blitzkrieg . . . , and if reports which reach the Western world are correct their destruction seems well under way.”

The same magazine in 1943 stated:

“Whole nations like the Greeks, Poles and Serbs are being exterminated systematically.”

By 1946, the end of World War II, Jehovah’s Witnesses had published information identifying 60 different prisons and concentration camps in Nazi Europe.

The book The Theory and Practice of Hell stated about Jehovah’s Witnesses uncompromising love that could not be broken by the cruel yolk of Nazism:

“One cannot escape the impression that, psychologically speaking, the SS was never quite equal to the challenge offered them by Jehovah’s Witnesses.”

Historian Christine King, chancellor of Staffordshire University in England, described the opponents in the conflict:

“One [the Nazis] enormous, powerful, seemingly invincible. One [the Witnesses] very, very tiny . . . with only their faith, no other weapon . . . Jehovah’s Witnesses brought morally to their knees the might of that Gestapo power.”

EXPSOING EXISTENCE OF THE CAMPS

Although Auschwitz, Buchenwald, Dachau, and Sachsenhausen were names unknown to most people until after World War II, they were well known to readers of The Golden Age and Consolation. The reports of Jehovah’s Witnesses, smuggled out of the camps at great risk and publicized in Watch Tower literature, exposed the murderous intent of the Third Reich.

– Awake! 8/22 1995.

In 1938 the book entitled Crusade Against Christianity was published in French, German, and Polish. It documented very meticulously the attacks by the Nazi on the Witnesses and included diagrams the Sachsenhausen and Esterwegen concentration camps.

Nobel prize winner Dr. Thomas Mann wrote: “I have read your book and its terrible documentation with deepest emotion. I cannot describe the mixed feeling of abhorrence and loathing which has filled my heart while perusing these records of human degradation and abominable cruelty. . . . To keep quiet would serve only the moral indifference of the world . . . You have done your duty in publishing this book and bringing these facts to light.”


EFFORTS TO DENY HOLOCAUST PREDEICTED
After World War II on September 26, 1945 the magazine Consolation gave a very enlightened prediction about future attempts to deny the holocaust, under the article “Has Nazism Been Destroyed?”:

“Propagandists think the people have short memories. It is their intention to erase past history, presenting themselves in the modern disguise of benefactors, their incriminating record being covered up…Until Jehovah does fight Armageddon, Nazism will continue to raise its ugly head.”

no i dont think so


You should visit a Concentrate Camp in Germany..

An interesting read for sure, thank you for creating such an elaborate OP!

While I have no sympathy for Jehova's Witnesses as a whole, it is surely noteworthy to point out that they were victims of Nazism just as much as the Jews, Homosexuals, Masons etc. were. Given that, they are a good source to study life in the camps etc.

Just one question: The Reinhardt camps were a thing of the 40's, and the other camps in Poland, to my knowleedge, did not have significant numbers of inmates from Germany proper. My understanding is that the repression against Jehova's Witnesses started early, and thet they were therefore mostly incarcerated in German camps on german soil, such as Ravensburg.

Given that, maybe they are not the best source as far as eye-witness testimony is concerned. Some of the best testimony from Auschwitz, IMHO, comes from non-jewish poles incarcerated there.
Anyway - my question: Are you, who is obviously knowledgable on the subect, aware of any Jehova's Witnessed that were incarcerated in camps on polish soil?

Not to offend you, but not even going to bother reading it.

My recently passed 93 year old grandmother surived through it, along with her parents and brothers. Their stories were not just some made up nightmares. You cant deny the accounts of the many survivors just on the words of a few nuts who dont agree with the formation of Israel after the war.

Originally posted by CalibratedZeus
Not to offend you, but not even going to bother reading it.

My recently passed 93 year old grandmother surived through it, along with her parents and brothers. Their stories were not just some made up nightmares. You cant deny the accounts of the many survivors just on the words of a few nuts who dont agree with the formation of Israel after the war.

Perhaps you should read it, you might learn something.

reply to post by SkullAndBeats235


I'm NOT denying that the Holocaust never occurred but posting a couple of images without any source really doesn't do it for ATS members.

What i will say on the matter is that 90% of all those dead people look like they starved to death...

Did the holocaust happen? I don't know, i have seen documentaries on it and to be honest i can't seem to make up my mind totally...and to be honest it serves NO purpose for me to make up my mind, it is in the past...and there it shall remain!

reply to post by CalibratedZeus


Way to go in not reading the post and COMPLETELY missing the point. Waisting your time, OPs time and everyone elses.

If you didn't even read it then why the hell bother to reply?

reply to post by CalibratedZeus


In order to get the bigger picture you need to see whats on the other side of the fence (no pun intended). To gain total perspective you must see from all sides...whether you believe in it or not.

To close your mind absolutly to such a thing as different points of view make you just as guilty as those whom would have you believe something different in the first place.

Did the Holocaust Really Happen?

Of course it did.

reply to post by SubAce

Lemme' guess .. you are a Jehovahs' Witness ... am I right?

reply to post by jrmcleod


Yes I agree with you. Theose people in the photos look like they starved to death. The americans bombed all day and we brits bombed all night. Every road railway port and any other transport system was bombed. So no food or supplys could get to the camps. In a time of war I would feed my own troops first, rather than any one who was a traitor or who had declared war on my country. Thats why they were in the jail/camp. Just like in the USA. Who rounded up all the japonese and put them in camps.

To the OP ... you speak about the Jews and Gypsies and Jehovahs Witness' being killed off by Hitler. But, somehow, you forget the rest ...

6 million Jews directly kiilled
6 million non-Jews directly killed.
- Orthodox
- Catholics
- Homosexuals.
- Gypsies.
- Physically 'unfit'.
- Mentally Ill
- Free Masons
- Jehovahs Witness'

Hitlers mass killings of Catholics and Orthodox ... especially in Poland and Russia ... are almost equal to the number of Jews killed in the camps. A fact that is often overlooked, especially by holocaust deniers.

Holocaust Victims

Did it happen??
Why dont you ask all those elderly folk with a sequence of numbers tattooed on the inside of their arm and ask them if it happened
Deny Ignorants

reply to post by NichirasuKenshin


Jehovah Witnesses were rounded up in the occupied territories too and incarcerated in concentration camps, including in Poland. Whether they were transported to camps in Poland or in Germany, would depend entirely on their ethnicity and to a lesser extent on their skills. But there were certainly Witnesses in Auschwitz-Birkenau. They were usually classified, in the camp records, as 'Bible Researchers', rather than as Jehovah Witnesses.

Originally posted by NichirasuKenshin
Given that, maybe they are not the best source as far as eye-witness testimony is concerned. Some of the best testimony from Auschwitz, IMHO, comes from non-jewish poles incarcerated there.
Anyway - my question: Are you, who is obviously knowledgable on the subect, aware of any Jehova's Witnessed that were incarcerated in camps on polish soil?

edit on 18-7-2012 by NichirasuKenshin because: grammar

Thank you for the kind remarks and insightful notes about our brothers and sisters. I personally am too young and live too far away from that part of the world to know anyone personally. Here are a couple of quotes about Jehovah's Witnesses is Auschwitz that I found.

“Values and Violence in Auschwitz,” by Anna Pawełczyńska, states: “This group of prisoners was a solid ideological force and they won their battle against Nazism. The German group of this sect had been a tiny island of unflagging resistance existing in the bosom of a terrorized nation, and in that same undismayed spirit they functioned in the camp at Auschwitz. They managed to win the respect of their fellow-prisoners . . . of prisoner-functionaries, and even of the SS officers. Everyone knew that no ‘Bibelforscher’ [Jehovah’s Witness] would perform a command contrary to his religious belief.”

◆ Rudolf Hoess, in his autobiography, published in the book “Commandant of Auschwitz,” told of the execution of certain ones of Jehovah’s Witnesses for refusal to violate their Christian neutrality. He said: “Thus do I imagine that the first Christian martyrs must have appeared as they waited in the circus for the wild beasts to tear them in pieces. Their faces completely transformed, their eyes raised to heaven, and their hands clasped and lifted in prayer, they went to their death. All who saw them die were deeply moved, and even the execution squad itself was affected.” (This book was published in Poland under the title “Autobiografia Rudolfa Hössa-komendanta obozu oświęcimskiego.”)

Someone gonna get slapped sideways by Springer!!

he's not a happy man on this subject.

Title is a main drawing factor in all writing mediums, and based on this one's title all I can imagine is a certain Iranian president and his views on the ordeal.

Jumping to conclusions? Oh yes, I am indeed, but if it has anything to do other than that, then the author wasted his own time writing all of that and then titling his work a question that brings up nothing but hatred and bad blood from a lot of people.

Post about a touchy subject in this fashion, expect hasty, touchy responses.

Originally posted by illuminnaughty
reply to post by jrmcleod

 

Yes I agree with you. Theose people in the photos look like they starved to death. The americans bombed all day and we brits bombed all night. Every road railway port and any other transport system was bombed. So no food or supplys could get to the camps

This is simply not true, especially not for ALL camps. It is not even true for MOST camps.

People starved there long before the first bombs hit the ground.

Killing off what the Nazis deemed to be "excess populations" by starvation was a plan that was hatched by senior Nazis long before the war and was then implented through Baacke's "Hunger Plan".

wigbertbenz.wordpress.com...

The link is in German. The best scholarly discussion in english about the food situation and Baacke's Hunger Plan that I am aware of, and that is readable and accessible to non-historians, is to be found in Adam Tooze's Wages of Destruction. It's out in paperpack and not all that expensive.

Of course it happened! I don't care if certain people want to question numbers or other things about it, but the amount of people here recently who want to flat out deny it ever happened p***es me off to no end.

And it's not a good idea to quote viking because he is an obvious white supremicist. Nothing he says should be taken seriously. He lives in his own world, with an entirely different version of history.

I don't know much about the history of J.W's, but it's common knowledge that if you didn't go along with the Nazis and/or spoke out openly against them, you'd end up in those camps as well. It saddens me that some refuse to learn from history and go out of their way to glorify Hitler or explain away the events that lead up to his rise as if he was somehow justified in forcing people into these camps.

just to clarify, I wasn't trying to point you out OP. I was referring to the other posters who were denying the Holocaust lately.

By the numbers more Russians and Chinese died than Jews, and by proportion more Gypsies died than Jews.

The Jewish deaths are just a statistic within a very horrible time in history, Please don't let the suffering of the many be used as an agenda of a few.

The term Holocaust should refer to ALL that died (as it used to) and not just to the Jews, otherwise you are placing a group of peoples deaths higher than others.