American Exceptionalism....Where?

So, the other thread discussing this was about some politicians nonsense comments being taken seriously for some reason, and I didn't want to discuss what liars tell people during election season.

So let's talk about how American is Exceptional, or really how it isn't in today's 21st century.



Now this chart can be found in many many different forums with many different stats. The main point is that the US is NOT #1, or anywhere close to those figures.

So why does your government, your leaders and your general mentality revolve around you thinking you are the best nation on the planet? The fact literally state you aren't.

Perhaps America would still be #1 without this blind patriotism and "My crap doesn't smell" mentality that exists within American today. That feeling however was compounded and encouraged after the events of 9/11 among other things, so the brainwashing most Americans are under isn't entirely their fault.

So back on topic, this idea that America is exceptional. I'm not disputing that it use to be wonderful and use to be the place that you needed to be if you wanted to get anywhere in the world, become rich, become successfull, become relevant and actually make a difference.

And it COULD be that way again. Reminds me of the speech given by the character on the News Room series of HBO we've all seen lately. Here it is again just for those who haven't listened.



So you tell me America, why do you feel like your nation is better today, than those who are out performing you in almost every area?

Would you be better off if nationalism and patriotism were toned down so that people realized what state your country was in? Would there then be more motivation to get involved and change things?

Or does the Narcissism run that deep?

~Tenth

reply to post by tothetenthpower


The sad fact is most Americans can't handle the truth, and they go into denial mode. The majority of people, when you bring up these statistics, will say something along the lines of "well if you don't like it then get the hell out". They are just dodging the truth because it contradicts what they've been taught their entire lives. Americans who have travelled around the world typically understand these facts, but unfortunately not a lot of Americans have travelled out of the country. Good thread though.

But I bet we are ranked pretty high when looking at corporate profits.

And that is all that matters...right? That is what the Right wing tells us...as long as our corporations make huge profits...everything else will be butterflies and rainbows.

So who cares if our babies die...at least we have good profits. And who cares if our education sucks...as long as the corporations make their profits...we will be better as a society.

The truth is we no longer have American Exceptionalism...we only have American Greed.

reply to post by tothetenthpower


I also noticed that those statistics show Finland, Iceland and Sweden are doing exceptionally well in most of those categories. It's interesting to note that they are some of the most open and free countries on Earth... for instance they are extremely open about their sexuality in most of those places, they don't associate guilt and shame with natural human desires, and they are also not very religious nations. They are also very open concerning drug policies and in general most of their laws are rather lax. For instance, their degree of freedom concerning copyright laws, particularly in Sweden, are very minor and not very harsh. Just some observations that may be worth consideration...

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
reply to post by tothetenthpower

 

I also noticed that those statistics show Finland, Iceland and Sweden are doing exceptionally well in most of those categories. It's interesting to note that they are some of the most open and free country on Earth... for instance they are extremely open about their sexuality in most of those places, they associate place guilt and shame with natural human desires. They are also very open concerning drug policies and in general most of their laws are rather lax. For instance, their degree of freedom concerning copyright laws, particularly in Sweden, are very minor and not very harsh. Just some observations that may be worth consideration...

One of the things to note however is those are countries that have significantly less population, so that does skew the numbers a bit.

But looking at GDP and the ammount of money available; the US should be able to out perform them no problem IMO.

And this isn't to bash America, trust me, I love America, it's given the world some of it's greatest inventions, societal structures and advancements in culture and forward thinking.

Just not anymore.

That's a problem.

~Tenth

reply to post by tothetenthpower


OP---No, we are not the greatest country in the world any longer. That is the difficult truth for many Americans. But Thomas Friedman, the New York Times writer, wrote a book about this in his "World Is Flat." But he does go as far to say that Americans should be proud that the rest of the world is evolving and becoming great. Many of our inventions, our ideas, our technology, our philosophies have helped to change the world. He goes into great length about why this is so.

We have no reason to hang our heads in shame. We were the purveryors of this changing world. We must now share with others what we have created---and much of it is what we wanted, no? The spread of democracy, for example.

I love my country---number one or number five or number seventeen on any list.

I'm not sure what you want Americans to say, or how you'd like us to respond.

Most of what has changed was caused by powers beyond our control--people who had to weaken this country in order to create something different for the world. We are just simply riding the train, no longer able to stand up and create change.

We are too brainwashed, too tired, too confused, and too often at Walmart now to stop this mighty train on its tracks.

reply to post by tothetenthpower

One of the things to note however is those are countries that have significantly less population, so that does skew the numbers a bit.

That's true, however a lot of them aren't relative to the population count, and the ones that are, are probably measured as a ratio/percentage anyway, so the population count wouldn't make a difference.

American Exceptionalism....Where?

It's been outsourced to India.
(it's cheaper there)

Just call "Steve" (from Bangladesh) at customer support and he'll help you find it.

i'm shocked OP.

apparently Iceland is the exceptional nation among all the others in the world.

I agree the population really throws this whole thing off places like Iceland have a population that is 100 times smaller than California. When you are dealing with numbers of this size it gets to a point where comparing things on a per capita basis really don't paint an accurate picture.

I simply don't trust these kinds of studies simply because they're often done by other Europeans with an axe to grind against America. And sometimes they leave certain things out in order to bash America. In Europe it's fun and trendy to hate and bash America without caring to really find out all the facts.

One good example is the bs about America having the highest prison population in the world. The only thing they are going on is the numbers of people in prison. They don't take the time to examine what our laws say. They don't seem to even want to understand that we don't do things like have political prisoners or debtors prison. And they don't seem to understand that our laws are to protect the American citizens.When I hear people lamenting about how many people are in our prisons I can't help but to think that they simply want to let child molesters, pedophiles, rapists and murderers out and roaming the streets freely when they should be and I've got to ask what's wrong with Europe to want America to let these people roam free? You don't let criminals run free to hurt more people, you lock them up in order to protect people. It just seems that Europeans don't really want to protect people, which is a shame.

Also, when you do the math, America has roughly 320 million people. We only have a few million of them in prison, if you did the math you'd find that that amount is less than one percent of the entire population when the rest of the nations would have much higher percentages.

So, whenever I look at these kinds of things, I just can't take them seriously.

Note: I am not a nationalistic kind of guy, and I'm not a blind patriot. I consider myself a patriot though because I believe in the ideals of the country, just not the people who run it.

If I could have an unbiased source then I could take it seriously. I really don't think there is such a thing as an unbiased source.

reply to post by EvilSadamClone


www.indexmundi.com...

This is also another website to compare stats of various countries against others.

I understand what you are saying, stats can be manipulated, but you must agree that for years now the US has been behind the curve in all of the above mentioned points.

Just because this one chart may or may not be entirely 100% accurate does not defeat the point made.

~Tenth

In sports, exceptional teams always believe they are the best even if they are not #1 in any specific category.

I can't recall the last time I saw an exceptional team pick themselves apart and admit they are not that great.

reply to post by tothetenthpower


I can't agree because I don't have any real data to look at. I want real, unbiased data before I can make any real conclusions.

But the United states does have some problems it's facing, that much I'll agree on.

But you Europeans should leave us to fix it in our own ways and stop trying to turn us into another little Europe.

The point of America was to do things differently than Europe. That's something you guys don't seem to understand.

reply to post by tothetenthpower


Those Scandinavians seem to have it sussed - never been there - too bloody expensive, beer costs a fortune over there.

And they have some cracking TV - but their languages seem quite unintelligible and some of their dishes are particularly unappealing - but the women!!

Have met a few on my travels and they all seemed like pretty together and ok people.

Wasn't it once pretty much accepted that the Scandinavian nations also had the highest levels of suicide?

reply to post by EvilSadamClone


I'm not European.

Clearly doing this the "American" way has led to a gross failure in the last 50 years considering your economy, your rankings in various different areas as reported by multiple sources.

Look I can't give you the facts your looking for, you must research and find them for yourself. I don't know why they would have an "axe" to grind against America, considering they didn't put them last, but put them where they belong.

Your refusal to accept information, or research it further is kind of what I meant by blind nationalism and patriotism. You claim to not be affected by it, but you clearly are.

~Tenth

reply to post by tothetenthpower


Except the American way did not fail.

What has hurt America are the bankers doing what they can to subvert the American system so they can erode the Constitution and loot America through regulating everything all to hell and back so that nobody has any freedom and money to do anything and all money goes to the bankers and the wealthy elite. Kind of like the Rhine River in Germany, from where we get the name robber baron.

That is not the American dream, nor is it the American system.

And your own bigotry is showing too.

If every country had the same form of government, a comparrison could be made.

But since they don't, this is an exercise in futility.

(with all due respect)

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone
reply to post by tothetenthpower

 

Except the American way did not fail.

What has hurt America are the bankers doing what they can to subvert the American system so they can erode the Constitution and loot America through regulating everything all to hell and back so that nobody has any freedom and money to do anything and all money goes to the bankers and the wealthy elite. Kind of like the Rhine River in Germany, from where we get the name robber baron.

That is not the American dream, nor is it the American system.

And your own bigotry is showing too.

What Bigotry?

What you say is partially true. However the American Electorate let this happen. Let's remember that as much control as people have over the decisions made in your country, the results of civil apathy are very apparent in America.

Other nations on that list have flourished because their governments were too afraid to attempt to usurpt them the way that Americans have been.

Your current situation, is the result of decades of government inaction, bad policy, bad decision making when action was taken and an electorate that cared far too much about hollywood and sports to give a damn about the details.

~Tenth

It is not the government that does this, it is the people whom it represents.

Government gets blamed because it's far more visible than the people who really run it.