The Hill Star Map and Exoplanets

I am a believer in the Barney and Betty Hill case. I am also a firm believer in Bob Lazar. (I have some pretty good reasons to.) I set about looking at some of the Extra Solar Planets (Exoplanets) that Astronomers have been finding over the last decade. I wanted to see if out of the Hundreds of Thousands of stars in our Island Universe of the Milky Way, were any of the "found" planets in the Hill / Fish map. To my surprise out of the 400 plus Exoplanets, two of the stars in the star map, actually did have an orbiting body (planet).

The map (as explained by Betty Hill) had lines connecting starts. The Heavy lines were where the Grays have Trade Routes. The Dashed lines were places they had explored. First of all, Trade Routes to me means that they are trading something, with someone! Secondly, places that they "Trade" with and visit are on the map. Two of which we now know has at least one large gas giant orbiting the star on the map. Typiacally when a star is formed, planets (if they are to be formed at all) is formed in the dust and gas cloud that surrounds the star. Therfore, if we find gas giants around these stars on the map (like our Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune) then there is a remote possibility that a good solid planet orbits that star in the "Goldie Locks Zone". Like the one we call Earth.

Here are the Maps along with the starts that FACTUALLY have orbiting planet. What do you think?

PS. BE NICE. I only present this as another way of looking at the Hill map. I was not there and cannot vouch for its authenticity, but it is fun to let your mind wonder...

Really fascinating. It looks like this information maps up with real discoveries. In fact they probably knew exactly where to look.

Am I seeing things. or does the map show a trade route with our own Sun? This is the first time I've seen these maps, BTW...

Trade route and/or places that they frequent

I have my own thread about this starmap, where I link sources about all the stars (or alleged ones) of the map.

Many of those stars are actually targets of the TPF (Terrestrial Planet Finder). Sadly however, it seems that this mission is for a reason or another stopped, cancelled or terminated... The only difference is that those planets that you announce are still today somewhat uncertain.

Please have a look in my own thread here.

Towards the end of it (at this post), ATS user Nicorette offers her own interpretation of the map, that I haven't been (so far) able to go through as thoroughly as I want, but which is a very credible possibilty (and again, huge grats to her for doing this).

It is interesting to notice that one way or another, all stars involved are great candidates for planetary companions that could include earth-like planets.

I don't think it is useful to close your own thread though, as it is slightly not the same subject.

So the only thing we're left with is Betty's star map. In her original written stories, she described the aliens' star map as three dimensional. Under hypnosis, she redrew it on paper, in two dimensions. It's seven or eight random dots connected by lines, and it's quite rough and by no means precise. Several years later, a schoolteacher named Marjorie Fish read a book about the Hills. She then took beads and strings and converted her living room into a three dimensional version of the galaxy based on the 1969 Gliese Star Catalog. She then spent several years viewing her galaxy from different angles, trying to find a match for Betty's map, and eventually concluded that Zeta Reticuli was the alien homeworld. Other UFOlogists have proposed innumerable different interpretations. Carl Sagan and other astronomers have said that it is not even a good match for Zeta Reticuli, and that Betty's drawing is far too random and imprecise to make any kind of useful interpretation. With its third dimension removed, Betty's map cannot contain any useful positional information. Even if she had somehow drawn a perfect 3D map that did exactly align with known star positions, it still wouldn't be evidence of anything other than that such reference material is widely available, in sources like the Gliese Star Catalog. We would not conclude that an alien abduction is the only reasonable way that Betty could have learned seven or eight star positions during those two years.

skeptoid.com...

even though you will probably immediately disregard this because its not some "official" source, if you actually read into it he uses official accounts. i don't believe this story at all

you gotta wonder why the Greys allowed Betty Hill to see that map...

Originally posted by xxblackoctoberxx

So the only thing we're left with is Betty's star map. In her original written stories, she described the aliens' star map as three dimensional. Under hypnosis, she redrew it on paper, in two dimensions. It's seven or eight random dots connected by lines, and it's quite rough and by no means precise. Several years later, a schoolteacher named Marjorie Fish read a book about the Hills. She then took beads and strings and converted her living room into a three dimensional version of the galaxy based on the 1969 Gliese Star Catalog. She then spent several years viewing her galaxy from different angles, trying to find a match for Betty's map, and eventually concluded that Zeta Reticuli was the alien homeworld. Other UFOlogists have proposed innumerable different interpretations. Carl Sagan and other astronomers have said that it is not even a good match for Zeta Reticuli, and that Betty's drawing is far too random and imprecise to make any kind of useful interpretation. With its third dimension removed, Betty's map cannot contain any useful positional information. Even if she had somehow drawn a perfect 3D map that did exactly align with known star positions, it still wouldn't be evidence of anything other than that such reference material is widely available, in sources like the Gliese Star Catalog. We would not conclude that an alien abduction is the only reasonable way that Betty could have learned seven or eight star positions during those two years.

skeptoid.com...

even though you will probably immediately disregard this because its not some "official" source, if you actually read into it he uses official accounts. i don't believe this story at all

This is one time where Sagan is wrong. She drew this map before the second star Zeta2 was discovered. It wasn't seen until 1978.

Originally posted by visualmiscreant
Am I seeing things. or does the map show a trade route with our own Sun? This is the first time I've seen these maps, BTW...

I've been told a few times that earth is in a pretty compromised or bad locale. Its in different routes, in lower frequency space.

reply to post by Unity_99


Lower frequency space, I like that, It gives mean idea - some places even in our universe not other universes the particles may be vibrating at higher frequency and thus space has parts in lower frequncy as ours and higher frequency, imagine it like the Sun having spots and the spots being these parts with higher frequency on the background of the rest of the sun on lower freqency - that's like what this universe is doing

Originally posted by Imtor
reply to post by Unity_99

 

Lower frequency space, I like that, It gives mean idea - some places even in our universe not other universes the particles may be vibrating at higher frequency and thus space has parts in lower frequncy as ours and higher frequency, imagine it like the Sun having spots and the spots being these parts with higher frequency on the background of the rest of the sun on lower freqency - that's like what this universe is doing

That's the very definition of heat. Nothing magical.

The word 'frequency' gets thrown around on here without any context. Frequency of what???

reply to post by 5pooky

I am also a firm believer in Bob Lazar.

what makes you believe Bob Lazar story is factual. His story is very different from the Hills. Was the star constellation that the Hills described known by earth astronomers in the 60s? How do we know she just didnt memorise a known star map constellation and then draw it during hypnosis to improve credibility of abduction story.? Personally i do believe Hills story still this is a questions debunkers will ask.

Originally posted by AthlonSavage
what makes you believe Bob Lazar story is factual. His story is very different from the Hills. Was the star constellation that the Hills described known by earth astronomers in the 60s?

Yes of course, not only the constellation was, but it was already known that Zeta Reticuli was actually 2 distinct stars. As a matter of fact, in a sufficiently dark sky, it is visible to the naked eye, except that you must be at a latitude south of the Cancer tropic (approx.) to be able to see those stars.

What is actually interesting, although there clearly is no evidential link between those facts:
- the Hill's abduction took place in 1961 according to their claims
- it is in 1966 that Marjorie Fish starts to think about matching the drawing and a model of stellar neighbours of the sun
- with new data from the 1969 Gliese catalog, she can correct the positions of several stars, and she produces up to 23 constructions that could match
- it is in 1973, seven years after having started that titan's work, that she concludes on one of her models that it could be a good match
- it is only in 1989, sixteen years later, that George Knapp would interview a guy named Bob Lazar, revealing to the world the existence of the so called Area 51 (please correct if I'm wrong but I could not find evidence for anyone having ever mentioned S4 or Area 51 prior to May 1989, at which time Lazar was not yet identified as such anyways)
- in 1996 a giant gas planet was announced around Zeta Reticuli 2, but the discovery was quickly dismissed as being an error in the interpretation of the star pulsating light.

My comments on this timeline are quite simple.
1. It took someone educated 7 years to produce a plausible match that, by any means, cannot yet be disproven.
2. It is only 16 years after that model story appeared in the public that someone, just out of chance, claims that his secret work involved extraterrestrial stuff (or possibly beings) in the origin of that precise system.
3. 7 more years later, a planet discovery is confirmed then quickly dismissed around the very same star, in fact even around the most sun-like of the twins.
4. I have yet to find evidence that Zeta 2 Reticuli is a pulsating or unstable star, although that is exactly the excuse used to dismiss the results. Although Zeta 1 and Zeta 2 are (were at least, didn't check that again recently) prime candidates in the TPF program, so far no other planet has been found or announced around neither of those stars, while we continue to discover planets around all sorts of stars and even when we would have considered it highly unlikely...
5. Another 16 years and a bit later, i.e. as of now, still no news of those 2, although one could have suspected that given all the above, those stars would be prime target for observations...
6. Given my 5, actually there are 2 ways that this could be interpreted. Either someone wants to quickly disprove all claims about what, or who, could be around those stars, by providing the public with evidence that there is nothing qnd they're not successful at getting that evidence, or someone is trying to protect the fact that they know that there is something or someone there, from the above research or any other possible means.

I am jumping at no conclusion at this, although I can say in a certain manner, I'd like it if Fish was right, if the Hills said exactly what they had been experiencing in all actuality, if Lazar really is who he claims he is or was, etc. At this point in time we have no proof that neither of this all is true or actual. But we also have no proof that it is false or wrong. There is a part missing...

reply to post by SpookyVince

5. Another 16 years and a bit later, i.e. as of now, still no news of those 2, although one could have suspected that given all the above, those stars would be prime target for observations...

I get the impression that any time Nasa. Seti or any other Astronomical search finds interesting data that suggests life could or may of been present that these group then do their best to divert their efforts to look in other direction. Almost as if they are doing their best to ensure we never discover or see anything other than rocks, and gases out there on other planets or regions of potentially habiatable space.

I wonder who invented this story cause its pretty good.
People are not paying for seats in a movie theater for it but helped big time
in starting the ball rolling for alien stories.
The Hills didn't have to say a word as the analyst told them what they said.
After that they repeat what were told they said.
How could they do otherwise.

reply to post by TeslaandLyne


You make sweeping statements about this incident and the evidence provided by the OP, yet you fail to counter with any kind of evidence of your own to back up *your* claims. What lead you to the belief that this incident was conjured up perhaps over dinner one night at the Hill residence? This is one of the better cases in Ufology and will take a much better pseudo-debunking attempt than you just made.

Originally posted by Jocko Flocko
reply to post by TeslaandLyne

 

You make sweeping statements about this incident and the evidence provided by the OP, yet you fail to counter with any kind of evidence of your own to back up *your* claims. What lead you to the belief that this incident was conjured up perhaps over dinner one night at the Hill residence? This is one of the better cases in Ufology and will take a much better pseudo-debunking attempt than you just made.

You figure things your way.
I'll figure things the right way.

Originally posted by AthlonSavage
reply to post by 5pooky

 

I am also a firm believer in Bob Lazar.

what makes you believe Bob Lazar story is factual. His story is very different from the Hills. Was the star constellation that the Hills described known by earth astronomers in the 60s? How do we know she just didnt memorise a known star map constellation and then draw it during hypnosis to improve credibility of abduction story.? Personally i do believe Hills story still this is a questions debunkers will ask.

edit on 29-12-2012 by AthlonSavage because: (no reason given)

You think the Hills came up with that map or is there something with greater
minds and efforts to establish the next step in the alien hoax after the Roswell
hoax. Why don't everyone consider what is being side stepped by the controlled
media and jump out of the box of what the official call is. The technology of
saucers is Earth bound from day one. No need of outer space beings who would
die in outer space like everything else out there.

reply to post by 5pooky

reply to post by whitelam10


How long would it take us do you think to reach these great post