Jesus Christ keeps us saved forever

reply to post by JesuitGarlic


Failed Prophecies of Ellen White

The Bible test of a false prophet is given in Deuteronomy 18:20-22 as follows:
‘But the prophet which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him
to speak . . . even that prophet shall die.’ (v.20).

Question: ‘If thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the Lord hath not spoken?’

Answer: ‘When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass,
that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou
shalt not be afraid of him.’ (v.22).
Some of Ellen White’s many false and failed prophecies showing her to be a false prophet are:

a) White falsely predicted that some living in 1856 would live to see Christ return:
‘I was shown the company present at the Conference.
Said the angel: ‘Some food for worms, some subjects of the 7 last plagues, some will be alive
and remain upon the earth to be translated at the coming of Jesus.'’ Vol. 1, p.131,132,
Testimonies for the Church. This statement was made in 1856 and everyone present in that
meeting is now dead. None lived to see Christ return. This is clearly a false prophecy. White
made no conditions for the fulfilment of this prophecy.

b) White falsely prophesied that England would declare war on the USA about the time of the Civil
War: ‘This nation will yet be humbled into the dust. England is studying whether . . . to make war
on her. When England does declare war, . . . there will be general war.’
Testimonies for the Church, Vol. 1, p.259.
This was a false prophecy, England did not declare war on the USA during the Civil War, and the
USA was not humbled into the dust.

c) White falsely prophesied in 1850 that Old Jerusalem would never be built up. In 1850 Bible
scholars were teaching about Jews returning to Palestine and the restoration of Jerusalem.
White stated, ‘I also saw that Old Jerusalem would never be built up’. Early Writings, p.75.
However, since Israel’s rebirth in 1948 and the Six Day War of 1967, ‘Old Jerusalem’ has been
greatly built up.

d) White falsely prophesied that the time for salvation for sinners had passed in July 1844:
‘The “midnight cry” was finished at the seventh month 1844 (page 43),’Early Writings, p.42-45.

e) White prophesied the world would end in 1843, 1844, 1845 and 1851.
‘the believers explained their mistake & gave reasons why they expected their Lord in 1844.’
Early Wr. p.237

UNBIBLICAL STATEMENTS OF ELLEN WHITE:

1) White falsely taught that the Tower of Babel was built before the Flood:
‘The Lord first established the system of sacrificial offerings with Adam after his fall, which he
taught to his descendants. This system was corrupted before the Flood by those who separated
themselves from the faithful followers of God, and engaged in the building of the Tower of Babel.’
Spiritual Gifts, Vol. 3, p.301, 1864 edition.
This mistake was later taken out of the 1870 edition of Spirit of Prophecy, Vol. 1, p 266.

2) White falsely taught that we should never say we are saved:
‘Those who accept the Saviour, however sincere their conversion, should never be taught to say
or to feel that they are saved.’ Christ’s Object Lessons, p 155. Yet the Bible says,
‘He that has the Son has life . . . that ye may know that ye have eternal life.’ (I John 5:12,13).

3) White falsely taught that the seal of God is the Sabbath:
‘The sign, or seal of God is revealed in the observance of the seventh-day Sabbath.’
Testimonies for the Church, Vol. 8, p 117; and TGC p 640.
But the Bible states that it is the indwelling Holy Spirit:
‘after ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise.’ (Ephesians 1:13).
‘Grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed.’ (Ephesians 4:30).
‘God, who hath sealed us, and given us the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.’(II Cor. 1:21,22).

4) White taught that there was only one Herod, who tried Christ and executed James:
‘Herod’s heart had grown still harder; and when he heard that Christ had risen, he was not much
troubled. He took the life of James.’ (Early Writings, p 185,186).
However, Bible scholars and historians have proven that Herod Antipas tried Jesus and that Herod
Agrippa I executed James the Apostle.

5) White falsely taught that Satan will bear our sins:
‘the scapegoat typified Satan, the author of sin, upon whom the sins of the truly penitent will finally
be placed.’ TGC, p 422.
‘As the priest, in removing the sins from the sanctuary, confessed them upon the head of the
scapegoat, so Christ will place all these sins upon Satan, the originator and instigator of sin.’ TGC,485.
‘Their sins are transferred to the originator of sin.’ Testimonies for the Church, Vol 5, p 475.
The Bible says, ‘the Lord hath laid on him (Christ) the iniquity of us all.’ (Isaiah 53:6).
‘Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree.’ (I Peter 2:24).

6) White falsely taught that Christ’s Atonement was not finished at the cross:
‘instead of coming to the earth at the termination of the 2300 days in 1844, Christ then entered the
most holy place of the heavenly sanctuary to perform the closing work of the atonement
preparatory to His coming.’ TGC, p 422.
But the Bible says: ‘but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the
sacrifice of himself.’ (Hebrews 9:26). “we have now received the atonement.” (Romans 5:11).
‘after he had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down on the right hand of God.’ (Heb. 10:12).
Christ said on the cross, “It is finished.” (John 19:30).

7) White falsely taught that we can be sinless:
‘Those only who through faith in Christ, obey all of God’s commandments, will reach the
condition of sinlessness in which Adam lived before his transgression.’
SDA Bible Commentary, Vol. 6, p 1118.
‘In order to let Jesus into our hearts, we must stop sinning.’ Signs of the Times, 3 March 1898.
But the Bible says: ‘If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.’
(I John 1:8,10).

8) White falsely taught that a Christian’s sins are pardoned, but not yet forgiven or blotted out.
She taught that one’s eternal destiny will be ultimately determined by weighing a believer’s good works
and bad works in the Investigative Judgment.
‘All who have truly repented of sin, and by faith claimed the blood of Christ as their atoning sacrifice,
have had pardon entered against their names in the books of heaven as they have become partakers
of the righteousness of Christ, and their characters are found to be in harmony with the law of God,
their sins will be blotted out, and they themselves will be accounted worthy of eternal life.’ TGC,
p483.
‘The work of the investigative judgment and the blotting out of sin is to be accomplished before the
second advent of our Lord.’ TGC, p 485.
‘In 1844 began the work of investigation and blotting out of sins.’ Christ in His Sanctuary, p122.
However, the Bible says: ‘I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake,
and will not remember thy sins.’ (Isaiah 43:25).
‘I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy transgressions, and as a cloud, thy sins.’ (Isaiah 44:22).
‘If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all
unrighteousness.’ (I John 1:9).

Note: The Investigative Judgment heresy:
a) Has never been taught by anyone else in history;
b) Has no Bible support;
c) Is the excuse for SDAs’ existence as a separate church.

Noted SDA historian and theologian, Leroy E Froom, states that this teaching is the SDA church’s
only reason for existence:
‘Indeed, if there is 1no actual Sanctuary in heaven, and 2no ministering Great High Priest serving
therein; and 3if there is no judgment hour message to herald from God to mankind at this time, then
we have no justifiable place in the religious world, no distinctive denominational mission and
message, and no excuse for functioning as a separate church entity today.’ Movement of Destiny,
p 542 (emphasis added). ‘Any deviation from (the sanctuary truth) strikes at the heart of Adventism,
and challenges its very integrity.’ p 542.
9) White falsely claimed that in a vision she heard the day and hour of Christ’s return:
‘Soon we heard the voice of God like many waters, which gave us the day and hour of Jesus’
Coming.’ Early Writings, p 15. Yet the Bible says, ‘But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no
not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.’ (Matthew 24:36).

10) White falsely claims that God had to consult others about man’s fall:
She thus suggests that God did not expect it and didn’t know what to do about it.
‘The news of man’s fall spread through Heaven – every harp was hushed. . . . A council was held to
decide what must be done with the guilty pair.’ Spiritual Gifts, Vol. 3, p 44.

11) White falsely claims that Adam kept the Sabbath:
‘The Sabbath was observed before the fall. Because Adam and Eve disobeyed God’s command,
and ate of the forbidden fruit, they were expelled from Eden; but they observed the Sabbath after
their fall.’ Spiritual Gifts, Vol. 3, p 52.

12) White falsely claims that angels have a gold card:
‘There is perfect order and harmony in the Holy City. All the angels that are commissioned to visit
the earth hold a golden card, which they present to angels at the gates of the city as they pass in and
out.’ Early Writings, p 39.

CONTRADICTIONS OF ELLEN WHITE

a) Deity ‘did’ and ‘did not’ sink and die:
‘Men need to understand that Deity suffered and sank under the agonies of Calvary.’
Manuscript 153, 1898 (BC, Vol. 7, p 907).
‘The Deity did not sink under the agonizing torture of Calvary.’
Manuscript 140, 1903 (BC, Vol. 5, p 1129).

b) There is consciousness after death, and there is no consciousness after death:
‘I saw that some were quickly destroyed, while others suffered longer. They were punished
according to the deeds done in the body. Some were many days consuming, and just as long as
there was a portion of them unconsumed, all the sense of suffering remained.’Early Writings, p 294.
‘Upon the fundamental error of natural immortality, rests the doctrine of consciousness in death –
a doctrine, like eternal torment, opposed to the teaching of the Scriptures, to the dictates of reason,
and to our feelings of humanity.’ TGC, p 545.

Challenge to SDAs: Show us one New Testament verse that:

a) Quotes the fourth Commandment, Or
b) Tells Christians to keep the Sabbath holy.

SDAS CLAIM SUNDAY KEEPING IS FOLLOWING AN IMAGE OF THE BEAST.

The SDA church’s official doctrine is that the Mark of the Beast is received by those who worship on
Sunday. Some SDAs don’t know the official teaching of their own church.
‘False teachings like the immortal soul, Sunday worship, eternal hell fire, etc are all from the Beast.
If we choose to worship in a church that follows these teachings, we are simply following an image
of the Beast. Because of their wilful decision to follow the Beast, its false teachings and practices,
the beast’s name is in their forehead and they are lost, having received the Mark of the Beast.’
From Prophecy Seminar Lesson 18, ‘The Mark of the Beast and the Seal of God’ from SDA Pastor
Leo Schreven’s book, Now That’s Clear.
Leo Schreven is a certified official evangelist for the SDA church. Now That’s Clear is an official
textbook of It is Written Prophecy Seminars sponsored by the SDA church.
“The mark of the Beast is the opposite of this – the observance of the first day of the week.”

reply to post by troubleshooter

There is an order to salvation...
...we are first saved through faith and then walk in the Spirit.

We are saved at the beginning and not at the end of that journey.

We are totally presentable to God at the beginning because of Jesus righteousness.

This may be your opinion, probably based on the sayings of men, but not on the Bible.
The Bible says nothing like that.

reply to post by fireyaguns

UNBIBLICAL STATEMENTS OF ELLEN WHITE:

My guess would be that you copied all this off a web site and that these posts do no represent the results of your own research.
If you had researched these claims, you would find them either false on the face of them, or based on faulty biblical interpretation.

reply to post by fireyaguns


Wow, there were six different men from the family of Herod in the Bible.

reply to post by fireyaguns


yeah ..

the once saved always saved .. and I get to the 'badge'/key' to do what I want regardless of the consequence..because Jesus saves forever"

and here's a fly in that cesspool of doctrine~!... which is called .. 'greasy Grace'

Rev 22:16 I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify these things to you over the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the bright and Morning Star.
Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come! And let the one hearing say, Come! And let the one who is thirsty come. And he willing, let him take of the Water of Life freely.
Rev 22:18 For I testify together to everyone who hears the Words of the prophecy of this Book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add on him the plagues that have been written in this Book.

Rev 22:19 And if anyone takes away from the Words of the Book of this prophecy, God will take away his part out of the Book of Life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which have been written in this Book.

Rev 22:20 He who testifies these things says, Yes, I am coming quickly, Amen. Yes, come, Lord Jesus.
Rev 22:21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with all of you. Amen. .

and the ONLY way to get your name in there is ....?

so don't feed on this false teaching which causes desolation~!

and here's another for you ..

"Here is a trustworthy saying:
If we died with him,
we will also live with him;
if we endure,
we will also reign with him.
If we disown him,
he will also disown us;
if we are faithless,
he will remain faithful,
for he cannot disown himself."

II Timothy 2:11-13

The Holy Bible

along with those two, I have a personal revelation of such. U2U me if you like to hear it.. it's something I don't spread around like candy on Halloween...

ETA: it's about a 'relationship'

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by troubleshooter

 

There is an order to salvation...
...we are first saved through faith and then walk in the Spirit.

We are saved at the beginning and not at the end of that journey.

We are totally presentable to God at the beginning because of Jesus righteousness.

This may be your opinion, probably based on the sayings of men, but not on the Bible.
The Bible says nothing like that.

How is this?

We are first saved through faith and then walk in the Spirit.

Ephesians 2:8 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."

Romans 4:5 "But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."

Romans 5:18 "...one man's trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one man's act of righteousness leads to acquittal and life for all men."

Romans 8:1-2 "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death."

reply to post by troubleshooter

Romans 8:1-2 "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death."

Here you are inserting your own definitions again, where you probably believe "no condemnation" means you are now exempt from having to ever face judgment. Then you hake it even a step further, to where it is now impossible to ever have to account for anything you do whatsoever, then create an imaginary status of being irrevocably "saved". In fact the text says nothing like that and is talking about a "life in Christ" as a way of life following the spirit that comes from God and is administered to us by Christ, where as long as we follow that perfectly, then we will rightfully expect to be able to pass through judgment.

Ephesians 2:8 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."

Here the context defines saved as being taken from a life of sin to a life of good works.

Romans 4:5 "But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."

Here justified is being brought into conformity with an acceptable standard, and the agency is Faith, which in the New Covenant takes the position that was held in the old covenant by the Law.

Romans 5:18 "...one man's trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one man's act of righteousness leads to acquittal and life for all men."

I think this will be more understandable if the entire verse is quoted and given in another translation.

Consequently, just as condemnation for all people came through one transgression, so too through the one righteous act came righteousness leading to life for all people.

Paul is contrasting two ways to live, one according to evil which leads to death, and a second way of life that was made possible by Jesus, that leads to life.

reply to post by jmdewey60


My guess would be that you are a SDA.

I have over 24 years of personal research and plenty more information for your review.

Don't be shy just ask and you shall recieve.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by troubleshooter

 

Romans 8:1-2 "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death."

Here you are inserting your own definitions again, where you probably believe "no condemnation" means you are now exempt from having to ever face judgment. Then you hake it even a step further, to where it is now impossible to ever have to account for anything you do whatsoever, then create an imaginary status of being irrevocably "saved". In fact the text says nothing like that and is talking about a "life in Christ" as a way of life following the spirit that comes from God and is administered to us by Christ, where as long as we follow that perfectly, then we will rightfully expect to be able to pass through judgment.

Ephesians 2:8 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."

Here the context defines saved as being taken from a life of sin to a life of good works.

Romans 4:5 "But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."

Here justified is being brought into conformity with an acceptable standard, and the agency is Faith, which in the New Covenant takes the position that was held in the old covenant by the Law.

Romans 5:18 "...one man's trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one man's act of righteousness leads to acquittal and life for all men."

I think this will be more understandable if the entire verse is quoted and given in another translation.

Consequently, just as condemnation for all people came through one transgression, so too through the one righteous act came righteousness leading to life for all people.

Paul is contrasting two ways to live, one according to evil which leads to death, and a second way of life that was made possible by Jesus, that leads to life.

edit on 5-7-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

You seem like a typical nomist who manages to turn 'righteousness', 'justification' and a 'free gift' into some form of personal piety and sanctified behaviour that will be good enough to squeeze your butt through the judgement.

The fact is that you can not produce one good work until you first are His son.

Even a man would first want to own a house before he renovates it...
...if the Lord is doing a good work in you, then you are owned whether you think so or not.

reply to post by fireyaguns

My guess would be that you are a SDA.

I have over 24 years of personal research and plenty more information for your review.

Don't be shy just ask and you shall recieve.

I am in fact an SDA and I do not keep it a secret.
I have seen claims like this presented and most people who are not SDA will not bother to check the quotes in context so are left with a false impression about Ellen White.
To me, she seems to have been someone gifted with special spiritual insight and I would not want to disparage her myself. Another thing that may be important to note is that she never actually ran the church or made its official doctrines and sometimes she just went along with other people's opinions as long as they were not in direct conflict with things she knew.
I would suggest that people would be well served by reading what she had to say and keeping in mind she was only human.

reply to post by troubleshooter

The fact is that you can not produce one good work until you first are His son

When Jesus talked about being a son, as in the parable of the one who stays with the estate of the master, he meant himself.
Yes, to me, Christianity is about piety, and if you choose to eschew piety in favor of reckless abandon, then I would suggest that no amount of rationalization or doctrine making will save you.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by troubleshooter

 

The fact is that you can not produce one good work until you first are His son

When Jesus talked about being a son, as in the parable of the one who stays with the estate of the master, he meant himself.

Even the prodical was still his son.

Yes, to me, Christianity is about piety, and if you choose to eschew piety in favor of reckless abandon, then I would suggest that no amount of rationalization or doctrine making will save you.

Ok so you are a SADventist then.

Listen Jmdewey you can not have personal piety until you first know that you are right with God and have union with the Spirit. It is only from this well-spring that any correct behaviour can come. You must first know the Spirit to produce the fruit of the Spirit.

If you are trying to do it in reverse you have already failed.

reply to post by Komodo


Nobody is talking about or affirming "greasy grace". Anyways, Paul destroys that idea in Romans. Don't straw man.

Originally posted by troubleshooter

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by troubleshooter

 

The fact is that you can not produce one good work until you first are His son

When Jesus talked about being a son, as in the parable of the one who stays with the estate of the master, he meant himself.

Even the prodical was still his son.

Yes, to me, Christianity is about piety, and if you choose to eschew piety in favor of reckless abandon, then I would suggest that no amount of rationalization or doctrine making will save you.

Ok so you are a SADventist then.

Listen Jmdewey you can not have personal piety until you first know that you are right with God and have union with the Spirit. It is only from this well-spring that any correct behaviour can come. You must first know the Spirit to produce the fruit of the Spirit.

If you are trying to do it in reverse you have already failed.

edit on 5/7/12 by troubleshooter because: (no reason given)

You're preaching at a brick wall and wasting your breath and energy bro. You'd spend your time better talking to a piece of wood.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
You're preaching at a brick wall and wasting your breath and energy bro. You'd spend your time better talking to a piece of wood.

The same Son softens wax and hardens clay.

reply to post by fireyaguns


So, I have a couple of questions.....

How EXACTLY is our salvation retained? By what we do or by our relationship?

reply to post by fireyaguns


For the record....

Truthablaze

Originally posted by Komodo
reply to post by fireyaguns

 

So, I have a couple of questions.....

How EXACTLY is our salvation retained? By what we do or by our relationship?

"...the Lord is faithful; he will strengthen you and guard you from evil." 2 Thess 3:3