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Originally posted by six67seven
what are the odds these 'damaging documents' get shredded, or lost, or are released with every word blacked out except the date, or the building that they are being stored in catches fire and implodes into its own footprint after a couple of hours? well, that's highly unlikely I suppose since no building has ever collapsed into its own footprint due to fire, except that one we don't speak of!
Originally posted by Nspekta
reply to post by Indigo5
Certainly juicey stuff I am sure, but NOT within the scope of the investigation and purely politically motivated and aimed at embarrassing the DOJ and White House....as well as being priveldged information.
Why do you say it does not fall within the scope of the investigation? Obviously the investigators think it is, if they asked to see it. Obviously there is something to hide if Obama has used the 'power' to hide the documents...
What do you know that we don't that allows you to say this? To me its absolutely relevant! Do you really think its ok for Obama to hold back potentially crucial documents that may lead back to the White house and Obama being involved/having knowledge of F&F?!
They dont have to go through POTUS for that technology. They can approach LRAD Corp in San Diego directly and/or place their operatives as employees/hackers and/or equipment
Originally posted by Pervius
The Fast & Furious scandal is a Psyop to get the public away from the fact Obama sold China the LRAD weapon.
Originally posted by Indigo5
All of which would be included in the Documents spanning the dates between when Fast and Furious began and when the investigation began.
Originally posted by Indigo5
Agreed wholeheartedly. But that is not what they are investigating, despite the facade...see above...Political fishing.
Originally posted by Indigo5
Not sure where that originates? Because according to both Issa's request and Holder's response...this is in regards to events post investigation and post Fast and Furious.
Originally posted by jimmyx
reply to post by phantomjack
hard work??...ok, i'll tell you what...i'll fire you, spread the work you did onto others, and keep your salary for myself....phewwww!!!!...boy!...i am tired from all that hard work!!edit on 21-6-2012 by jimmyx because: structure
Originally posted by Indigo5
Originally posted by butcherguy
A question for those still drinking the koolaid:
If, as a few of you have posted, the gunrunning was started by the Bush Administration.....
Why sit on the paperwork, risking contempt of Congress and make the President look like Nixon, invoking executive privilege?
Why not treat it like the ECONOMY, and tell the American people that 'It is all Bush's fault'?
Holder has released almost 10,000 pages of documents and every bit of information requested by the GOP that pertains to the start of the Gun Walking scandal up until when the operation ended and hit the news and the senate investigation began...everything they asked for.
Now they have requested emails and correspondance with regards to how the DOJ and White House discussed the investigation, it's implications, likely outcome, political costs etc.
Certainly juicey stuff I am sure, but NOT within the scope of the investigation and purely politically motivated and aimed at embarrassing the DOJ and White House....as well as being priveldged information.
If the White House releases this....then future Presidents will not be able to have candid conversations with thier advisors and a department heads....it is not relevant to the investigation...it is fishing.
During the Bush years...Boehner literally led the entire GOP to walk off the floor in protest calling the Democrats asking for docs related to the Valerie Plame incident nothing more than a "fishing expedition" for political purposes.edit on 21-6-2012 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)edit on 21-6-2012 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)
How about Chairman Issa release all of his cell records, transcripts of every conversation he has had privately, emails and strategy docs relating to any conversations he has had with Boehner, the RNC and GOP leadership about Fast and Furous and the hearing investigations?? Would that be fair game? Cuz I am sure thier is some juicey stuff in those records as well...
Originally posted by Eurisko2012
Originally posted by phantomjack
Does anyone feel like I do, that they wish Bill Clinton was back in office, instead of this Nimrod?
I didn't care for Bill Clinton. But after seeing what Obama has done to this country, Bill was a walk in the park.
Well, if you remember Bill Clinton had a few scandals of his own.
This is a walk down memory lane.
WhiteWater Gate
TravelGate
ZipperGate: Monica Lewinsky - the blue dress
Impeached by the House but not removed by the senate
Pardoning of Marc Rich: Even Stephanopoulos threw a hissy fit over that one.
Obama's decision pertains to documents from February 2011 and afterward examining how Justice officials learned about the Fast and Furious probe.
Holder, in his letter to Obama requesting he assert executive privilege, said those documents pertain to the "deliberative process" on how to respond to congressional and media inquiries.
Originally posted by Pervius
The Fast & Furious scandal is a Psyop to get the public away from the fact Obama sold China the LRAD weapon.
President Clinton put sanctions on China for arming Iran. The sanction forbids America from selling weapons to China. Obama got the State Department to declare LRAD "not a weapon" so it could be exported to China.
LRAD is not a speaker. It's a directed energy weapon firing two signals out of phase that come together at point "A" to create sound. China now has our sound weapon technology.
That's why you are seeing this Psyop over some rifles to Mexico.
Originally posted by phantomjack
Valerie Plame? Are you serious? You are going to compare the outing of a CIA agent -- revealing her name when it was already common knowledge and the fact that she was no longer serving in a critical capacity with the Agency, to selling guns that have killed hundreds? Do you really think the Valerie Plame incident was worthy of comparison, or for that matter, worthy of an investigation? That wasn't politically motivated???????
But the investigation of a dead border patrol agent and finding the truth isnt important?
What kind of distorted world are you living in?
Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by Indigo5
How about Chairman Issa release all of his cell records, transcripts of every conversation he has had privately, emails and strategy docs relating to any conversations he has had with Boehner, the RNC and GOP leadership about Fast and Furous and the hearing investigations?? Would that be fair game? Cuz I am sure thier is some juicey stuff in those records as well...
I guess I missed the part where Chairman Issa was running the Fast and Furious operation.
That would make his emails/conversations mean something to the investigation.
Originally posted by Asktheanimals
Darn shame Nixon didn't think to use this trick. Dick Cheney must be beside himself with joy at how his idea for a unitary executive is now the supreme power with no checks or balances from the legislative or judicial branches of government.
Originally posted by phantomjack
Originally posted by RealSpoke
reply to post by Eurisko2012
So you feel comfortable supporting and voting for a war monger. Great.
You have no clue if Romney would lower the unemployment rate. Presidents do not control the economy. Anyone who is running for president will claim they will lower it, to sucker people like you into voting for them.
A magical unemployment prediction rate that Romney pulled out of thin air holds more weight to you than human lives.
Your view on this is appalling. No wonder why the USA is crashing.
edit on 20-6-2012 by RealSpoke because: (no reason given)
Um, do you mean like how Obama promised to lower the Unemployment rate? Joe Biden, 2010: "we are going to create 500,000 new jobs per month!"
Do you meant Obama who sent troops into Libya without congressional approval?
Do you mean the magical unemployment rate that Obama predicted?
Are you on crack?
I am not going to waste my time citing sources, as this is all common knowledge that apparently only conservatives have heard for the last 3.5 years.
Presidents DO in fact control the economy -- they create an atmosphere that allows business to flourish, or, they create an atmosphere that causes businesses to clamp down on hiring. PERIOD.
If you do not understand that principal, then you have serious issues.
You mean the communications where we might hear Obama say, 'We need to cover this up.' ? Or maybe, 'We need to find another way to get guns out of the hands of the population.'
Originally posted by Indigo5
Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by Indigo5
How about Chairman Issa release all of his cell records, transcripts of every conversation he has had privately, emails and strategy docs relating to any conversations he has had with Boehner, the RNC and GOP leadership about Fast and Furous and the hearing investigations?? Would that be fair game? Cuz I am sure thier is some juicey stuff in those records as well...
I guess I missed the part where Chairman Issa was running the Fast and Furious operation.
That would make his emails/conversations mean something to the investigation.
You don't think Issa's motivations and resultant line of inquirey are relevant to the actual investigation? They ARE the investigation!
They are as relevant as the communications between Justice and the WhiteHouse AFTER F&F was over and was a media crapstorm.
Both would reveal political mechanations...but niether would shed light on F&F.edit on 21-6-2012 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by phantomjack
Originally posted by Indigo5
Originally posted by butcherguy
A question for those still drinking the koolaid:
If, as a few of you have posted, the gunrunning was started by the Bush Administration.....
Why sit on the paperwork, risking contempt of Congress and make the President look like Nixon, invoking executive privilege?
Why not treat it like the ECONOMY, and tell the American people that 'It is all Bush's fault'?
Holder has released almost 10,000 pages of documents and every bit of information requested by the GOP that pertains to the start of the Gun Walking scandal up until when the operation ended and hit the news and the senate investigation began...everything they asked for.
Now they have requested emails and correspondance with regards to how the DOJ and White House discussed the investigation, it's implications, likely outcome, political costs etc.
Certainly juicey stuff I am sure, but NOT within the scope of the investigation and purely politically motivated and aimed at embarrassing the DOJ and White House....as well as being priveldged information.
If the White House releases this....then future Presidents will not be able to have candid conversations with thier advisors and a department heads....it is not relevant to the investigation...it is fishing.
During the Bush years...Boehner literally led the entire GOP to walk off the floor in protest calling the Democrats asking for docs related to the Valerie Plame incident nothing more than a "fishing expedition" for political purposes.edit on 21-6-2012 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)edit on 21-6-2012 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)
Valerie Plame? Are you serious? You are going to compare the outing of a CIA agent -- revealing her name when it was already common knowledge and the fact that she was no longer serving in a critical capacity with the Agency, to selling guns that have killed hundreds? Do you really think the Valerie Plame incident was worthy of comparison, or for that matter, worthy of an investigation? That wasn't politically motivated???????
But the investigation of a dead border patrol agent and finding the truth isnt important?
What kind of distorted world are you living in?
Originally posted by Indigo5
Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by Indigo5
How about Chairman Issa release all of his cell records, transcripts of every conversation he has had privately, emails and strategy docs relating to any conversations he has had with Boehner, the RNC and GOP leadership about Fast and Furous and the hearing investigations?? Would that be fair game? Cuz I am sure thier is some juicey stuff in those records as well...
I guess I missed the part where Chairman Issa was running the Fast and Furious operation.
That would make his emails/conversations mean something to the investigation.
You don't think Issa's motivations and resultant line of inquirey are relevant to the actual investigation? They ARE the investigation!
They are as relevant as the communications between Justice and the WhiteHouse AFTER F&F was over and was a media crapstorm.
Both would reveal political mechanations...but niether would shed light on F&F.edit on 21-6-2012 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)
Fast and furious hasn’t been discussed a lot in the mainstream media, which is why the facts can seem so preposterous when you read them for the first time. But the story is slowly unraveling and the public is catching up with the madness. On Wednesday, the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee voted to hold Attorney General Eric Holder in contempt over his decision to withhold documents related to the “gun walking” operation – documents that President Obama tried to keep secret by invoking executive privilege. The question of why the Prez intervened in this way will surely hang over the investigation and the White House for many months to come. Be patient, conservatives. It took nearly eight months for the Watergate break in to become a national news story. But when it finally did, it toppled a President
Originally posted by Indigo5
reply to post by Xcathdra
Perhaps actually read the letter Holder sent to the President? As well as the letter that Issa sent to Holder?
Because you are repeating falsehoods that are being put forth by Fox etc.
Originally posted by Indigo5
The contempt charge was directly related to SPECIFIC communications AFTER Fast and Furious hit the media and the investigation commenced.
This isn't my opinion...Chairman Issa specified the same.
Originally posted by Indigo5
As for this being some elaborate plan to undermine the second amendment...that is batsh*& crazy...and rational minds on both sides know it, but it doesn't stop the GOP from trying to exploit that ignorance.
Originally posted by Indigo5
Was Pres. GWB trying to erode the 2nd Amendment when AZ ATF began the Gun-Walking? Or is that another reality you refuse to acknowledge?
Originally posted by Indigo5
Not sure what else to say....keep making unsupported claims that reality disagrees with...it works for FOX, why not here...rack up em stars!
Originally posted by Indigo5
It doesn't change facts...what were the dates requested by Issa's letter?
Originally posted by Indigo5
It is a sad thing to sacrifice rational thought and critical thinking to service a political idealogy. Your own measure of truth should always come first.
Here...maybe if Fox News tells you so you will believe it?
Obama's decision pertains to documents from February 2011 and afterward examining how Justice officials learned about the Fast and Furious probe.
Holder, in his letter to Obama requesting he assert executive privilege, said those documents pertain to the "deliberative process" on how to respond to congressional and media inquiries.
Read more: www.foxnews.com...
Issa's request is for docs POST fast and furious media frenzy......Feb 2011 to present.
Originally posted by Indigo5
Since there seems to be little interest in acknowledging the basic facts...i don't see much use in having a discussion or debate on the matter.
edit on 21-6-2012 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)