Calling All Carnivores Tell Us Why It’s Ethical to Eat Meat: A Contest, A Summary, A Winner

Originally posted by Isayeva
reply to post by DevineWisdom

 

If you think that evolution happens over night, then, yes, it does look pointless.I don't think that your teeth are considerably different than carnivores' teeth because of your ability to use tools, I see it as a hint that evolution is going in a certain direction. It is possible that you're in an evolutionary intermediate state, I don't know how you can be 100% convinced that you're not.

Maybe you misunderstood me. I never said we wasn't in an evolutionary state, and never mentioned anything about it happening over night, all I was trying to say was that Evolution occurs out a necessity. Why would nature make something that's not needed? We are what we are and the invention of tools helped get us here. Timothy Taylor is a British born archaeologist who wrote a book on the subject called " The Artificial Ape: How Technology Changed the Course of Human Evolution". As for whether or not it's ethical or moral to eat meat is something more of a personal choice. I personally eat meat, but i have friends who are vegans. We respect each other enough not force our personal beliefs on one another.

reply to post by Ericthenewbie


We are given the ability as omnivores to eat meat or greens. I don't feel as though I should feel guilty or wrong about eating meat any more then a lion feels guilty about eating a gazelle.

reply to post by GrimReaper86


I don't think you should feel guilty either... but to be clear, a lion doesn't really have a choice, does it?

Originally posted by ThePeopleParty

We are finding out all the time that a lot of what we eat now isn't good for us. Lots of meats can kill us if we don't cook it right and they say some red meats can lead to cancer and other problems

Go eat some beans without proper preparation...I'll stick with raw meat thank you.

Originally posted by gentledissident
I've been a vegetarian for about 20 years. When will I need to start eating meat again?

Well keep that up for another 2 million years and you will be eating poop next to the chimps as our brains shrink back down to 1/4 its size from the lack of protein and fats.

Originally posted by Xtrozero
lack of protein and fats.

I get both, but thanks for your concern.
If my brain does shrink, do you think I can pass that on?

reply to post by libertytoall

Plants have consciousness. There goes the whole moral argument for being a vegetarian.

From your link:

Scientists clipped branches from sagebush (a small bush found in the Western United States) and planted these clipping near to its parent or, as a control, an unrelated bush. They found that "plants within 60 centimeters of an experimentally clipped neighbor in the field experienced less leaf damage (by grasshoppers or other herbivores) over the season, compared with plants near an unclipped neighbor."

There is no evidence of any consciousness or self-awareness. Even single cell organisms such as bacteria do use signalling molecules to communicate, I guess that makes them sentient? The article is sensationalist pseudoscience.

Plants communicate and defend themselves. How is that not being conscious?

www.ted.com...

"Plants are not just able to live; they are able to sense.” (Stefano Mancuso)

reply to post by libertytoall

Plants communicate and defend themselves. How is that not being conscious?

Then bacteria is conscious, too. They do the same thing.

"Plants are not just able to live; they are able to sense.” (Stefano Mancuso)

So do bacteria. There is no reason to antropomorphise them.

The breadth of fields of plant science represented by these researchers reflects the fact that the vast majority of the plant science research community reject plant neurobiology.

Wiki

There is no evidence of any consciousness or sentience in plants.

Originally posted by RandomEsotericScreenname
reply to post by thoiter

 

Well I would consider the suggestion that animals have no values or feelings is a better example of La La land reasoning. I presume you've never owned a dog, or watched a gorilla. If I prevent a lion from eating a child, am I blatantly disregarding natural systems and hierarchy?

I didn't suggest that animals have no feelings, I suggested they have no human feelings. I'm sure that they don't have any values.

Saving a child from a lion is saving a human being from death, it has nothing to do with things.

You are blatantly disregarding natural systems and hierarchy if you think that the way of one lifeform eating the other is fundamentally wrong. It's what nature is based on.

Arguments like the animals have no say in it are purely based on reasoning from an emotional human perspective that is not based on any natural law whatsoever.

Or how about when a person is say in a fire, and the dog drags them out? Theres more to the animals. They do communicate, they have their own microcosmic world (to us). Language and everything.

Originally posted by RifeRules
Ethics... Health...

People get pretty defensive when it comes to "justifying" their diet.
Ultimately, we know what we want to eat, and we don't want people telling us what's good for us.

Everyone knows skinny, pale, sickly people. Vegans are not immune to suntans, and meat eaters are not necessarily going to die of a heart attack.

Our bodies are capable of consuming a wide variety of substances... some things more efficiently than others.
Plant proteins (yes, they do exist) are quickly digested and easily utilized. Hemp seeds are an amazing vegetarian source of protein for humans.
Like anything else, too much protein in your diet can cause severe health problems.

Ultimately, the best foods for us are the ones that are consumed in as close to their natural form as possible.
Talk all you want about our ancestors surviving on meat... they certainly weren't eating hormone, antibiotic-laden, meat that was raised on a factory farm. And they most likely weren't eating meat three times a day, every day.

Personally, I don't eat meat, but I do consume some raw dairy and raw bee products. I am very active and people say I look 25 (I'm 40).

I don't think that not eating meat is the reason that I feel so healthy, however.
I eat organic, natural foods, as close to raw as possible.
I would eat meat again before I went back to processed, packaged crap. Cutting out processed white flour and sugar is, I believe, the most important first step toward health.

I don't know if we "need" meat to evolve mentally. There seem to be plenty of carnivores in nature that aren't particularly bright.
Gorillas and elephants eat a mostly vegetarian diet, and both are extremely strong and don't seem to be lacking in protein.

Thinking about what we eat is a good thing.
Perhaps as we "evolve" it will continue to become more of a topic of concern.

I am totally trying to move closer to raw. So much better. Its one of the best kept secrets.

reply to post by antonia

Doesn't the fact that most American's in this country are fatasses and are suffering from one or more chronic conditions tell you something? Apparently eating meat isn't the panacea you people proclaim. Furthermore, most of the meat sold in this country is absolute garbage-It's laden with hormones, antibiotics and hardly inspected at all so good luck when the next E. Coli outbreak hits.

Ehm, I'm from Holland, and most people eat meat and almost everybody here is lean and in shape. You are talking about bad diets and over processed meat.

That's bad, I know, but it has nothing to do with the concept of eating meat, at all.

Nutritional yeast is produced by culturing a yeast in a nutrient medium for several days. The primary ingredient in the growth medium is glucose, often from either sugarcane or beet molasses. When the yeast is ready, it is killed (deactivated) with heat and then harvested, washed, dried and packaged. The species of yeast used is often a strain of Saccharomyces cerevisiae.

Oh oh, it involves the killing of another lifeform.

Doesn't the fact that most American's in this country are fatasses and are suffering from one or more chronic conditions tell you something?

Yes they eat too much bad stuff, they're too busy, they don't exercise. Nothing of this has to do with the concept of eating meat.

Furthermore, most of the meat sold in this country is absolute garbage-It's laden with hormones, antibiotics and hardly inspected at all so good luck when the next E. Coli outbreak hits.

Correct, this also has nothing to do with the concept of eating meat itself.

I am not a Vegan myself. I ate a piece of meat today. So why do I defend vegans and vegetarians? Simple. You guys keep bringing up the most unscientific crap to justify yourself. You are going to knock a vegan for doing something "unnatural" while you type on a computer.

Please, I never ever saw a thread calling out all vegans. It's always a vegan calling out people that eat meat.

None of the things you said are a reason to be fundamentally against the concept of eating meat.

And don't act like vegans are a victim, cause they are asking for it every single time, always pushing their lifestyle, always acting like they are better than everyone.

Get real.

Originally posted by RandomEsotericScreenname


None of the things you said are a reason to be fundamentally against the concept of eating meat.

And i was never arguing against the ethics of eating meat. If you want to eat a steak go do it. I was addressing falsehoods that keep getting spread about Vegans

And don't act like vegans are a victim, cause they are asking for it every single time, always pushing their lifestyle, always acting like they are better than everyone.

Considering how many of you keep parroting falsehoods in this thread I'd say you have some diet evangelizing of your own going on.

reply to post by antonia

And i was never arguing against the ethics of eating meat. If you want to eat a steak go do it. I was addressing falsehoods that keep getting spread about Vegans

No you weren't, apart from the yeast thing maybe. the rest of your post was clearly directed at meat eaters, giving reasons not to eat meat.

Considering how many of you keep parroting falsehoods in this thread I'd say you have some diet evangelizing of your own going on.

Can you qoute any of these "falsehoods" so that I can respond to them?

And are you suggesting that it is not always the vegans that start these threads, asking for meat eaters to justify their behavior?

Because if we hadn't discovered the massive benefits of eating cooked meats, you would not have the ability to write this thread or understand a concept like ethics.

Eating cooked meat, meant we spent less time chewing fruits and veg, more time hunting, gathering and making more humans. It also increased the size of our brains. So without this discovery our evolution would not have been the same or as advanced.

Originally posted by RandomEsotericScreenname
reply to post by antonia

 

No you weren't, apart from the yeast thing maybe. the rest of your post was clearly directed at meat eaters, giving reasons not to eat meat.

I believe I stated earlier that I eat meat. There are legit reasons not to eat meat. It devolved into that because you wanted to talk about it. You wanted reasons and you got them.

Can you qoute any of these "falsehoods" so that I can respond to them?

Your original response to me was regarding one of those falsehoods. Maybe you should go back and read what I was talking about. I was talking about B-12 and I was stating you don't have eat meat to get it since another poster proclaimed that. Really, if you can't take the time to read and understand what I'm don't respond.

And are you suggesting that it is not always the vegans that start these threads, asking for meat eaters to justify their behavior?

Well, if you read the OP's thoughts, he said it wasn't Vegan..So I think you might be reading too much into this. He said he found it interesting and wanted to discuss it.

Here's the problem: Diet is very personal and for some odd reason people take offense to the diets of other people. There are non-preachy vegans and there are preachy meat eaters. Live and let live I say. You don't have to listen to preachy vegans, just like they don't have to listen to you.

Originally posted by woodwardjnr
Because if we hadn't discovered the massive benefits of eating cooked meats, you would not have the ability to write this thread or understand a concept like ethics.

Eating cooked meat, meant we spent less time chewing fruits and veg, more time hunting, gathering and making more humans. It also increased the size of our brains. So without this discovery our evolution would not have been the same or as advanced.

That is a theory, there are many anthropologists with differing views. Furthermore, are you stating that if we don't eat meat we are suddenly going to devolve?

reply to post by antonia

I believe I stated earlier that I eat meat. There are legit reasons not to eat meat. It devolved into that because you wanted to talk about it. You wanted reasons and you got them.

Like I said, the reasons you gave are not reasons to not eat meat at all.

Well, if you read the OP's thoughts, he said it wasn't Vegan..So I think you might be reading too much into this. He said he found it interesting and wanted to discuss it.

it is pretty clear from what standpoint the article in the OP was written.

Calling All Carnivores Tell Us Why It’s Ethical to Eat Meat: A Contest, A Summary, A Winner,

It doesn't matter what the OP thinks, this clearly beagan with the calling out of meat eaters.

Your original response to me was regarding one of those falsehoods. Maybe you should go back and read what I was talking about. I was talking about B-12 and I was stating you don't have eat meat to get it since another poster proclaimed that. Really, if you can't take the time to read and understand what I'm don't respond.

I didn't say you can't survive without meat, but that naturally, it would be nearly impossible to aquire the nutrients from other sources, making eating meat perfectly natural.

And like I said, although you are right about the B12 yeast being a natural product, it still requires another lifeform, and killing it, Also the B-12 is added.

Because nutritional yeast is often used by vegans, who usually need to supplement their diets with vitamin B12, there has been confusion about the source of the B12 in nutritional yeast. Although yeast is closer to animals than plants in their genome and metabolism, they cannot produce B12, which is only naturally produced by bacteria. Some brands of nutritional yeast, though not all, are fortified with vitamin B12. When fortified, the vitamin B12 is produced separately (commonly Cyanocobalamin) and then added to the yeast.[4][5][6]

Not exactly natural, and not something that exists in natural form, like meat.

Well, if you read the OP's thoughts, he said it wasn't Vegan..So I think you might be reading too much into this. He said he found it interesting and wanted to discuss it.

Again look at the title and tell me it is not a vegan viewpoint that this thread originated from. Regardless of OP's feeling on the matter.

It's always a vegan standpoint calling out meat eaters. Never the other way around.

Here's the problem: Diet is very personal and for some odd reason people take offense to the diets of other people. There are non-preachy vegans and there are preachy meat eaters. Live and let live I say. You don't have to listen to preachy vegans, just like they don't have to listen to you.

BS, it's always the vegans that have to bring it up. Meat eaters don't care what vegans do, as long as they are not calling them out and pushing their views.

Originally posted by RandomEsotericScreenname

Not exactly natural, and not something that exists in natural form, like meat.

Hot dogs don't exist in natural form, neither does sausage. It's called cooking. I don't see the big deal. Humans learned how to do it. It's not hurting any vegans out there so who cares? The point is they can get B-12 without eating animal products. You are just nitpicking the way they do it.

BS, it's always the vegans that have to bring it up. Meat eaters don't care what vegans do, as long as they are not calling them out and pushing their views.

If meat eaters didn't care you wouldn't see them arguing that vegans are pale and sickly. I've seen plenty of threads around here over the years calling vegans out. Don't play like it doesn't happen because it does.

It's tasty. Anything that good can't be wrong.