Where are the ATS military supporters?

Originally posted by Jagermeister

Originally posted by SGTSECRET
Why is it so hard for people to read. The thread is calling for military supporters, so those who are here putting down service members are only doing so to cause problems. If you do not like those who are in the military, make your own thread about how much you hate them for whatever ridiculous reason.

Another thing, there is no point to coming in here spouting off about anti government bs when that has nothing at all to do with supporting the men and women in uniform. While I've been in and even while deployed we(the soldiers I was with) have often had the same opinions on 'what are we doing' 'why' and all that other stuff. OK we get it, things are messed up, and many of us in uniform KNOW this. Blaming those in the military for all the wrongdoing that is happening makes just as much sense as blaming EVERYONE for paying taxes which pay for these sort of operations that nobody wants.

You know what my entire family has served this country in both ww2 and vietnam and I don't appreciate you basically calling me scum for not supporting this war. You should respect the fact that people are trying to get people the hell out of that war zone and actually give a damn about our troops when they come home and the VA refuses to help them. I'm sick of being called anti american simply because I don't support a war that we as a country have no busniess fighting. You are not in some special club becaue you're in the military. Stop acting like you are.

Wow you need to work on your reading skills. I never said you are anti american OR scum. I've also said that I know the current operations don't make sense, which means I ALSO don't support the current wars but somehow I called you scum and other things for the same exact beliefs...interesting. How is it disrespectful to say there's a difference between supporting the military and supporting the government?

reply to post by Adlai


I have never met one person that said all he wants to do is kill. And I have worked with many infantry units. Most of the guys i have met over the years say that it's BS what they're going through and have to do. Most guys would rather be serving in peace time or at least in a war that actually has a good cause. Most of us deal with it because we want to be there when America really needs us. But for some reason it seems like no matter how much i tell you that the military does to help the world, you are too set on the idea that the military just makes the world hate us. Who cares that the Navy and Marine Corps are usually the first on scene for a country that was hit by a natural disaster to provide aid for the country. Never mind that the military always triesto put their best foot forward to build strong relations with countries they are in. The media says we are a bunch of deranged animals that have no sense of humanity, so it must be true.

May I ask what profession you are in? I am just curious.

reply to post by Echo3Foxtrot


I didn't say all soldiers want to kill. Most soldiers are just being arrogant. You may not want to kill, you may want to help, you may want benefits, you may want honor, but you're still working for a murderous and corrupt organization. And said organization could not exist without people who volunteer to be soldiers.

I'm a college professor during the fall, winter, and spring, with 2 anthropology classes and 2 recent(1900 to present) american history classes. I also sponser a political debate group, and I help with the theater department because I enjoy it. I got my masters in anthropology in 07, started teaching part time in 08, got my masters in american history in 09 and started teaching that the next semester. I'm a year round part time journalist for a local paper, though I don't report but 3 or 4 times a month, specialty pieces. Been doing that for seven and a half years, since I was a junior in college. Over the summers I have different humanitarian project I work on around the country that I started doing my senior year in highschool. Sometimes it's community cleanup. Sometimes it's extra education, big brother type tutoring. One year I set up a summer camp. There were some youthful criminals who had to help by court order, and we laid paths and built cabins, and cleaned up a ton of trash, and the kids hated it, but a fewof their parents kept in touch with me and told me they went to the camp the next year. A few still do. I pay my own travel expenses. I got scholarships for act scores and a nice grant for an essay I wrote, and paid for the rest of college with my writing job and a part time cook job at a chili's like restaurant. My mom always bought my books for me. My "honorable" dad wasn't around, but I saved up the checks social security sent me as child support that few months I was still in highschool but also 18 and bought my transportation. I donate plasma 4 to 6 times a year, SNIP , at least by state law. I smoke natural tobacco, and I don't drink or take any other meds, legal or otherwise.

And I turned down a raise this year to keep tuition for my classes from raising. I actually got them to lower my history class 15 bucks for the 3 credit class, but anthropology is too big and popular, so it takes a big room and nice sound and video equipment.

And I'm a buddhist.

Wanna know more?

Originally posted by Adlai

Our military is what makes it unsafe to be american. You make the world hate us.

No, you are wrong... no one hates Americans because of the military... no one even hates Americans period.

What people all over the globe is don't like is United States foreign policy. We are not so ignorant as to place blame where it does not belong.

In that, everyone has their fair share of culpability, every voter. But at the same time, we know the media and government lies and you do not understand or even know, much of what has happened. It is only the truth we want you to know, and through knowledge of the truth, perhaps changes for the better can be made.

No one wishes any American harm, we just wish your government would stop wishing us harm. But we do know it is the government. Please do not place blame where it does not belong, because that is ignorance and not truth, place it where it does belong, with the people who make these foreign policies. Only then, through truth and knowledge, can YOU help to make effective changes for the better, through helping to change the policies that got the soldiers there to begin with.

What you are doing currently is to blame the effect without looking to the cause. If you want to stop an effect, stop the cause. Yes, there are many Americans who refuse to sign up for military service because of all the illegal wars, and you are correct if every soldier refused to fight the government would have no power, but that takes a unity no American has, because Americans believe the lies they are fed, and soldiers are no less American than you.

Fight the cause of the evil, by fighting the evil itself. Truth is the only weapon, and everyone armed with it, must thus fight. The fighter must not consider consequence to self, because it is our future at stake. ALL our futures... and what we are leaving for our children, and our children's children. Complacency is not an option.

Originally posted by SGTSECRET
How is it disrespectful to say there's a difference between supporting the military and supporting the government?

I could ask you the same thing.

Looks like the thread's dead now. I scared the jarheads away wth my being an upstanding citizen and never having to work for a corrupt murderous organization, and helping the needy in my own country without tax money. And I was trying to leave that out to just have a fair argument about what responsibility is, how it is earned/tranfered, and what the main purpose of a standing army is, and what's moral and ethical, ad how a government has the power to feed their corruption(that's what the military is). I started as a philosophy major, but switched to anthropology after a year because I could take similar classes and get a better degree.

And also, I got more starts than op...hehe :-)
here


P.s. bradley manning puts you all to shame. He's an honorable soldier, and I support him.

Originally posted by Adlai
Looks like the thread's dead now. I scared the jarheads away wth my being an upstanding citizen and never having to work for a corrupt murderous organization, and helping the needy in my own country without tax money. And I was trying to leave that out to just have a fair argument about what responsibility is, how it is earned/tranfered, and what the main purpose of a standing army is, and what's moral and ethical, ad how a government has the power to feed their corruption(that's what the military is). I started as a philosophy major, but switched to anthropology after a year because I could take similar classes and get a better degree.

And also, I got more starts than op...hehe :-)
here

edit on 5/3/2012 by Adlai because: (no reason given)

P.s. bradley manning puts you all to shame. He's an honorable soldier, and I support him.

edit on 5/3/2012 by Adlai because: (no reason given)

Are you done talking yet?

reply to post by paradox


I stopped talking around 3, when my class ended. It was a fun review sesson of american history from about 1950 to present. Here I don't talk, I type.

But seriously, that's a good question. I shall answer it with another question. Do you still support the troops? That goes for everyone.

I still haven't heard why you aren't responsible. I hear "you can't blame the wrongdoers for listening to the criminal minds" but no reason why you cankt blame them, and don't tell me naivete is the reason, or even intent, because the intent to do good while doing something not good is still being responsible for the not good things done, not to menion it's using illogic to try to do something wrong without any ngative consequences.

Take some #ing responsibility children.

Admit that those of you who kill are murderers and those who don't are accessories to murder. And stop using you false logic before I have to start listing every logical fallacy with definition so you fools know what's not going to work to try and fool me into thinking you aren't making the world a horrible place.

I have to get in front of two classes and explain to them libya now. Iraq was hard enough. Now I have to present this, like this.

Libya had a happy population and a strong infrastructure. A rebel group less than our own occupy movements got some western coverage, and the un agreed to a no fly zone over libya. Because of this no fly zone america took it as permission to open fire, and then did so, claiming so long as no soldier set foot in libya they weren't doing anything wrong. Now we've killed their leader, turned their gold backed currency into a fiat currency by putting private bankers into the position of a federal reserve type organization, and we've taken over and priviized their oil, and we almost come out and admit that we took the oil as payment for bombing them, killing ther leader, and destroying their wonderful economy.

Originally posted by Adlai
reply to post by paradox

 

I stopped talking around 3, when my class ended. It was a fun review sesson of american history from about 1950 to present. Here I don't talk, I type.

But seriously, that's a good question. I shall answer it with another question. Do you still support the troops? That goes for everyone.

Yeah, I support the troops.
I'm a Marine. Multiple tours in Iraq in Afghanistan. I'm one of the murderers you keep rambling about. Do I agree with the foreign policy? No. But politics goes out the window when you're being shot at.

It's funny having been through it, and looking back on how society has comforted people so much that they have no concept of what fear is so they just keep talking out their asses with their political correctness and utopian views with a narcissistic, holier than thou attitude.

reply to post by paradox


The majority of people the military shoots at are holier and more honorable than you and the rest of your military buddies.

And I am holier than a murder, and an aid to murder, BECAUSE I DON'T CAUSE #ING DEATH!

And you made the decision to work to the corrupt and murderous government before you got shot at, agreed to go get shot at and shoot back. They didn't leave their country to come change our society. You decided to join the military during non stop illegal and immoral war for a failed and corrupt government, and put yourself in a situation where other people have to deend their rights and lives from you. You are the agressor, you are the murderer.

Originally posted by Adlai
reply to post by paradox

 

They didn't leave their country to come change our society.

Remember 9/11? (referring to al qaeda here, Iraq was retarded)

You decided to join the military during non stop illegal and immoral war for a failed and corrupt government, and put yourself in a situation where other people have to deend their rights and lives from you. You are the agressor, you are the murderer.

I joined to take revenge on the terrorist group responsible for attacking our country, and I will gladly take the life of anyone who attempts to take mine, or my brothers lives first. IDGAF if I'm there or if I'm at home.

No regrets.
Like I said, you don't know what you're talking about. You sure try to talk a big game though. ##snipped##

Originally posted by paradox

Originally posted by Adlai
reply to post by paradox

 

They didn't leave their country to come change our society.

Remember 9/11? (referring to al qaeda here, Iraq was retarded)

You decided to join the military during non stop illegal and immoral war for a failed and corrupt government, and put yourself in a situation where other people have to deend their rights and lives from you. You are the agressor, you are the murderer.

I joined to take revenge on the terrorist group responsible for attacking our country, and I will gladly take the life of anyone who attempts to take mine, or my brothers lives first. IDGAF if I'm there or if I'm at home.

No regrets.
Like I said, you don't know what you're talking about. You sure try to talk a big game though. Pussy.

edit on 5-3-12 by paradox because: (no reason given)

You wanted to kill the people who committed 911, even hough they were on the planes and already dead an there was no proof to lead you to believe it was al qaeda or where al qaeda was except the government finding a scapegoat without evidence, and so you joined the army run by proven corrupted and corruptor to kill people in a completely different country than al qaeda, because al qaeda isnkt a contry, and is actually a group started by the cia.

And then the guy with the gun called the guy talking his unpopular opinion a pussy.

Your point about 911 is moot because we don't know for real who did it, read the 911 report. I'm not saying it was an inside job or it was israel, I'm saying the evidence is completely unclear of who did it and compltely clear that the us gov #ed up in some way. It's moot especially because we went to war with pakistan, iraq, and libya, none of whom committed 911.

A pussy is a man who teams with other men to use advanced weapons payed for by taxes to take oil from the third world and to keep them from using gold instead of our patented paper.

Originally posted by Adlai


A pussy is a man who teams with other men to use advanced weapons payed for by taxes to take oil from the third world and to keep them from using gold instead of our patented paper.

Well good thing I didn't take oil or force them to use paper money.

I shot at guys who shot at me and my buddies. I don't care about your politically correct opinion, how right you think you are about my reasons to join, or how third world you think they are. A bullet is still a bullet.
I just wanted to know if you were done with your narcissistic posts telling your life story, school background, degrees, what you do on the weekends, what you do over the summers, how you smoke weed and are a buddhist (lol contradictions), who paid for your books, who pays for your travel fees, how your IQ is so much higher than any service member etc etc. It was annoying.

reply to post by paradox


Someone posted a list of the things they have done working for murder inc. Someone then proceded to ask what I do. Buddhists smoke a lot of hash, which is finely pressed bits of weed. Not all of them, obviously with how many laws there re in so many countries prohibiting it as well as many variations of the religion. The mot evout buddhists own nothing but a bowl and a hashpipe. I find it helps relieve irrational aggression. It relieves all types of irrationallity. The bit about my mom and dad was to show I've had some help, and that I didn't need rich parents or a job as a hired gun to figure out a way to succeed or help the less fortunate.

You can't join an organization for it's benefits without accepting the responsibility of the actions expected of you to receive those benefits.

When you join a group known for dishonorable acts you can't expect to be supported by strangers, and your friends and family should feel uncomfortable supporting you.

Eta an example of narcissism would be starting a thread asking for support in doing what you think is honorable however misguided or unresearched those beliefs may be despite the wdespread opinion that us military intervention and war in general is a hazard to life, happiness and freedom.

"If you create more problems than you solve you are not helping."

All armies need to disband, and that's insanely idealistic. I don't expect it any time soon, if ever. But as the superpower of the world the people have to make the change in our habits to get # started and spread the example. Don't let a damn travesty happen, and if you can't, report it to the media. You're off fighting foreign wars when you need to be here fighting the government with and for the people. Join the strike in may. Make it honorable to be a soldier again.

Originally posted by Adlai

When you join a group known for dishonorable acts you can't expect to be supported by strangers, and your friends and family should feel uncomfortable supporting you.

The group is not known for dishonorable acts. A few within, are. That's like categorizing all Christians as the Westboro type, or saying all black people steal. Whenever you have a society, there will be bad people. There will be murderers whether they are in the military or not. There will be rapists whether they are in the military or not. Do you realize that when you say the military, you are describing a huge scope of people? Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, Coast Guard. Within each of those branches there are entire career fields from lawyers to chefs, to computer and aircraft technicians and so on. Not everyone has a combat job. For you to label the entire military as dishonorable is ignorant and seriously stupid. If you get out and actually talk to people with military experience I'm sure you'll be shocked to know they are normal human beings with emotions, dreams, and problems just like you. You're not a step above like you act you are.

People claim that military members want to be put on a pedestal. That's not true. We do not want to be spat on for our career choice. Do not blame us because the people that YOU ELECT AND PUT INTO OFFICE decide to use us for purposes contrary to your liking.

We are not the scapegoat to place the blame on for your political concerns.

Eta an example of narcissism would be starting a thread asking for support in doing what you think is honorable however misguided or unresearched those beliefs may be despite the wdespread opinion that us military intervention and war in general is a hazard to life, happiness and freedom.

That is not what this thread was created for. It was created because the OP was wondering why only on ATS does it seem everyone is anti military, but not in the real world.

It's a very valid point. I have noticed the same.

reply to post by paradox


Since when do you consider yourself in the real world?? LOL
Gotta link??

Originally posted by longjohnbritches
reply to post by paradox

 

Since when do you consider yourself in the real world?? LOL
Gotta link??

You seem to show up consistently in threads with incoherent interjections.

Please do not reply to me until you can form and convey a comprehensible thought pattern.

reply to post by Adlai


First off I jsut want to say you know absolutely nothing.

I can't believe another human being can be so ignorant. Im in the military USMC, and I would take a bullet for any of the guys in my unit, or any unit id even dive on a live grenade. I doubt you have the balls to do that.

Also you call us murders, or wanna be murders. Well let me tell you something jackass, when I get ambushed and im getting shot at you damn well bet im going to make sure I kill them before they kill me because well to me my life is pretty important.

I understand when I signed my name on my contract that I could possibly die and even if I do go down you can bet your ass it will be fighting.

Where did you find that the Geneva Convention made it a warcrime to go to war against a country that hasn't attacked you?

You know its also a war crime to cut off reporters heads on a live TV feed. Im sorry its a war crime to kill prisoners.

You think we like being over there, away from our families and our homes. We don't but we understand thats what we signed up for. People don't sign up to kill, they join to do something with there lives, be something that will have worth to society, help with school, for a job, there are countless reason. You wouldn't understand though until you actually grew some balls and went through boot camp and laced up your boots with the best of them.

reply to post by Adlai


....you're an idiot.

When I'm both AT war and NOT AT war, my job has nothing to do with "killing people."

Again.

It's actually nice to think that ATS had educated conversations at one point on it. Not just political rubbish from couch potatoes. Get out - meet an actual soldier, learn how the Army, Marines, Navy, Air Force work, then stop and think about what you're saying before you put your chubby little fry grabbers on the keyboard. THINK.

reply to post by mf_luder


Actually, go ahead and pick up "On Killing" by Lt. Col (Ret) David Grossman.

You'll see just how pathetic the statistics are of people in combat over the past 100 years are for those who've actually shot not only AT enemies, but actually killed anyone. They're extremely low due to peoples' ingrained inhibition against killing a fellow human.

I'm not having an argument or debate about that, read the damned book, then argue with it. I won't respond.

Furthermore, this "brainwashing" rubbish I've seen on here since I joined a few years back is pathetic and laughable at best. If I was "brainwashed" by the Army, I'd never joined this site and posted some of the stuff I did. No. - - I'd be all "boogity boogity, I'm a big bad Soldier and I'm here to kill you!"

The fact people actually think the way Adlai does makes me sick to my stomach and are a clear indicator as to what's wrong with this world and why we'll never achieve the things the human race is clearly capable of. No, we have to deal with and coddle flagrant, unyielding, irreparable stupidity.

Cheers.