CIA and Pentagon Plan for Worse Case in Mexico

reply to post by dreamstalker


It's funny, but in my younger days I used to joke about that very same thing; hey man, I wanna be Johnny Hempseed, ha ha. Where are the Doritos?

Meanwhile your average Romney, Santorum, Gingrich supporter and Neocon thinker supports invading countries abroad for 'regime change'.

And we have a Narco Country with citizens who invade our borders and drain resources while secret groups profit from the Drug War.

What a country.

Mexico has always had it's issues, but it's actually the first victim of peak oil.
www.energybulletin.net...

The cartel violence can actually be linked to the first declines in oil production. It will only get worse as production continues to decrease.

Nope I have to say this



Given Long term cost and what we are facing...

It is cheaper and easier to defend Mexico's southern boarder... As america's new southern boarder


The reason truthfully,

give the cartel 72 hours to pay state and federal back taxes for the drugs they sell


note the IRS does not distinguish between legal sources and illegal sources of income..

Ask Capone, and no offense, the cartels are not capone.


Collect the billions in back taxes

reply to post by ripcontrol

I think any opportunity to directly work with Mexico on their borders was shot 20 years ago and back in the days following Reagan and the Cocaine cowboys and wars of the 80's. Mexico went from corrupt to downright organized about the corruption which morphed into very well organized crime. That is my take on it. Now the cartels literally have billion dollar budgets and private armies which may do more than give the Mexican army a run if it ever came to a fight for survival. They MAY just defeat the Mexican army outright.

That is no insult or slight to the Mexicans either. I don't sell their military skills or equipment short. After all, we trained them and we equipped them. However, if the cartels are holding their own and GROWING while fighting years of civil war down there, I'd say it's a snake pit we want absolutely nothing to do with. Ever. Not there.

Besides.... Ask the Army guys who had scenic service in South America in the late 80's and early 90's. We've tried that direct intervention stuff in the drug war and tried it for years. Real quiet like..... I sure don't see where anything is better today than it was in 1986 or 1990. Heck... Build a moat. Dig a whole new Canal to replace the Panama.....but close the border until their war is over.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Yes, government forces might as well give up the battle and find a new strategy at the Americas Summit this week in Cartagena. The narcos have all the money and the best and latest military equipment money can buy, like this custom-built assault vehicle, which BTW is air-conditioned too:
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/388a1d5639d5.jpg[/atsimg]
Not to mention the cartels are also well-armed, courtesy of the US ATF.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
I came across this while sorting my pics and thought I'd hop back and share it.

The image is courtesy of Stratfor and among their public offerings during the open/free period.

After looking at this map and considering it's implications, I think the best solution might just be to build that wall but make it a proper one with consideration toward physical defensive ability.

The whole nation down there is in turmoil and chaos, if not full blown civil war.

Good Lord, what a distorted, convoluted, obfuscated and unreal view of Mexico many people in this thread have conjured.

Originally posted by PulsusMeusGallo

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000

After looking at this map and considering it's implications, I think the best solution might just be to build that wall but make it a proper one with consideration toward physical defensive ability.

The whole nation down there is in turmoil and chaos, if not full blown civil war.

Good Lord, what a distorted, convoluted, obfuscated and unreal view of Mexico many people in this thread have conjured.

It would appear they are getting the view the media intends for them, and along with it the ideas desired for them to propogate. Here the resulting dialog bespeaks the agenda. Read the OP "news" link to see it was just a fear propoganda piece from fugitive.com, its entire article quoted in whole in the opening post

A thread was trashed by ATS mods that was announcing this week's Summit of the Americas conference in Cartagena, Colombia that will be attended by 34 American countries' leaders and an agenda to discuss new drug policy directions aimed at stopping corruption and violence. Ostensibly since legalization and liberalization of drug laws was mention that sort of talk could not be allowed on ATS. Apparently fomenting violence with talk of raiding foreign countries and killing brown people is perfectly fine though.

Let them build that wall. Please, build it high, build it strong so that it cannot be breached in either direction.

reply to post by PulsusMeusGallo

Good Lord, what a distorted, convoluted, obfuscated and unreal view of Mexico many people in this thread have conjured.

Well, I would be more than happy to hear precisely how you feel we're all wrong and totally ignorant of the Mexican situation and geopolitical considerations where the Calderon Government is concerned...for the very short time he has left in power there. (July is election day).

Frankly, you're running down and belittling intelligence product that our Government, among others, pays for and that map is part of that commercial end product. If it's wrong, by all means please DO enlighten us. In the mean time..and lacking anything more specific than lashing out to say we're all totally wrong.....I think I'll take the word from professionals who do this for a living and do nothing BUT produce analytically products like the above map.

It's just one of those things..... You're not presenting anything but your word and saying you're not only right but everyone else is wrong. Sorry.... That isn't enough for more than amused laughter at such a statement.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000

Well, I would be more than happy to hear precisely how you feel I am wrong and totally ignorant of the Mexican situation

Sure. the overwhelming majority of Mexico is perfectly safe.

Any other questions?

reply to post by PulsusMeusGallo

Well... Umm, Yeah.. Several. Source? Stats? Safe in what context? I know we have a running talley near 40,000 dead people in Mexico from this civil war of theirs.

LA Times 2010 estimate of 35,000 dead.

The Guardian 2010 figure of 34,612 dead.

That was 2010 and the fighting down there has gotten worse since then, not better. The majority of Mexico would be referring to where? I'm looking at Mexico on the map...and not the one I posted for this thread...and wondering where the populated areas would be that haven't seen Police and Politicians murdered and scattered around public streets for the locals to learn from. Acapulco has even had it's share of horrific public violence and assassinated local figures. The BBC has a rather informative timline here:

BBC Timeline of Mexican Domestic Problems

Just a couple excerpts from the timeline to illustrate what I'm confused by in saying Mexico is largely safe?

2008 Drug-related killings soar. Murders linked to organised crime leap to almost 1,400 in first five months of year.

2008 May - Attorney-general Eduardo Medina Mora says more than 4,000 people have been killed in 18 months since President Calderon took office and declared war on drugs cartels. About 450 of the dead are police, soldiers or prosecutors, and many of the killings have been concentrated along the US border.

2009 December - One of Mexico's most-wanted drug lords, Arturo Beltran Leyva, is killed in a shoot-out with state security forces. The authorities put the number of drug-related killings for 2009 at around 6,500, the worst year of bloodshed since President Felipe Calderon declared war on the drug cartels in late 2006.

2011 August - An attack on the Casino Royale in Monterrey kills 52 people, after gunmen douse the building with fuel and set it alight. President Calderon describes the attack as "an abhorrent act of terror."

Busy place down there..... Of course, that's a tiny sample of the chaos and carries to present day. Finally though, there is one closing thought. In the United States, corruption is sure a problem. No question. It makes everything a little dirty by it's presence. In Mexico, it's not just a problem......Even the President himself is reminded from time to time that he can be killed quickly enough by the Cartels if they choose to.

WIKILEAKS: Mexican President's Guard Leaked Secrets To Drug Cartels

Call me paranoid and I'm sure I won't be getting any Christmas cards from Mexican tourist officials any time soon....but I'd sooner go vacation in Jerusalem with a side trip to the ruins of old Babylon on my shiny new American Passport than go south of the Mexican Border for so much as a day trip to party.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000

Well... Umm, Yeah.. Several. Source? Stats? Safe in what context?

Truth About Mexican "Violence"

Think what you like and trust what you want, but when you blunder through the door with an anti-Mexican chip on your shoulder claiming something's that is patently false, expect some of the people sitting in the room to snicker and point out that big piece of toilet paper hanging off your shoe.

reply to post by PulsusMeusGallo

Well, it was interesting chatting with you. You begin with insults backed with no source. I counter with facts, figures and statistics drawn from the major media around the world and sourced back to Mexican Government Officials and their own Security infrastructure spokespeople. Your reply is another backhand to my effort and a Mexican Tourist promotion website that should be taken as authoritative and definitive.

I know MSM isn't unbiased....but countering an argument about the ongoing security situation in another nation with a website dedicated to promoting that nation's tourist industry is something entirely new.

Umm... Wouldn't that be like sourcing GOP Headquarters or the Democratic National Committee for the "dirt" on their own party? Why..there is no dirt. Never has been...never will be. Err... yeah.. Anyway, I'm off to catch up on neglected class work. I'd still say anyone going to Mexico for anything but required business is patently insane....but that's just me.

Reply to posts by PulsusMuesGallo and Wrabbit2000

Living in the central highlands of Mexico I will say without links and sources that life goes on here fairly normal and quietly and with our state government of Michoacán sponsoring many cultural and arts events most of which are free and all are open to the public and at very regular intervals in our many parks and plazas. Life is pleasant here. Be that as it may, Mexico has been seeing more than its share of violence though even at its present peak still has a much lower than average homicide rates among most Latin American countries with 15 per 100,000 population compared to El Savador at 71, Honduras 67, Venezuela 52, Colombia 39, Panama 24, Brazil 23, Ecuador, 22, and so on with the US now seeing a low of 5 per 100,000 which they had not experienced since around 1968, just before Nixon took office and started his War on Drugs. I checked Wikipedia to get some homicide stats if you would care to review the information I was observing. I did find some interesting correlations to share here. Wiki has recent information, perhaps not the newest so one may wish tp argue my observations.

As this subject has to do with the War on Drugs I looked at the homicide rate in regards to that timeline of events. During Mexican President Felipe Calderón's first year in office and just prior to his Drug War getting into full swing Mexico's homicide rate was about 10 per 100,000, comparable with the US during the 70's, 9.6 in 1975 then 9.8 in 1981 with 8 or more in intervening years, 9.8 again in 1991 and then falling to 6.8 in 1997, and by 1999 to present has remained under 6 homicides per 100,000. This drop occurred at the time medical marijuana was passed in California and declining as more states have passed similar laws. So far this is no proof of anything and just a general observation but enough to kindle some curiosity to look a bit further.

There is no doubt that Mexico's spike in violence and its rise in homicides from 10 to 15 per 100,000 coincided easily with Pres. Calderón's drug war policies. The US's drop in homicides handily matched-up with the various States liberalizing their own drug laws though US federal law doesn't recognize the States' rights in this matter, except as a matter of degree. Though GW Bush's administration did enter the States to enforce federal drug policy under Obama there has been much less federal interference with States' Medical MJ policy and there has been a corresponding further decline in the US homicide rate down to its current 5 per 100,000. Curiouser and curiouser...

The most liberalized nations with regard to drug policy are The Netherlands and Portugal and curiously enough they have fairly low incidence of homicides, 1.22 per 100,00 for Portugal and .93 per 100,000 for The Netherlands.

I don't make any claim to this being a scientific study but just a casual observation. Your mileage may vary.

reply to post by Erongaricuaro

Thank you and I appreciate the time to give so much local perspective and detail. I always love hearing the local perspective in trying to understand a place. By your 1st hand account, it sounds like the violence isn't across the rural areas. Thats great to hear. If I might ask someone who does live there, is the Kidnap and Ransom problem in a few of the major cities as large a problem as Media has occasionally mentioned on it?

Personally, I hope nothing but the best for Mexico...I just have a rather pointed and hard attitude toward the U.S. first getting out of the mess we've helped make down there...and then staying clear out of it. If the Mexican people can solve the problems down there despite the issues from not only the U.S but other nations in South America for making things worse, then nothing would be better for everyone.

Originally posted by Erongaricuaro

It would appear they are getting the view the media intends for them, and along with it the ideas desired for them to propogate. Here the resulting dialog bespeaks the agenda. Read the OP "news" link to see it was just a fear propoganda piece from fugitive.com, its entire article quoted in whole in the opening post.

It's these constant, repetitive and purposeful distortions that lead those who take no time to properly research the truth about Mexica viloence, b/c it does not fit their agenda and/or their obfuscated viewpoints on life in Mexico, that fuels these nutcases.

FYI. I have a place in Merida and share one in Tulum.If peeps don't want to come to Mexico to live, fine by me.

Originally posted by ErongaricuaroA thread was trashed by ATS mods that was announcing this week's Summit of the Americas conference in Cartagena, Colombia that will be attended by 34 American countries' leaders and an agenda to discuss new drug policy directions aimed at stopping corruption and violence. Ostensibly since legalization and liberalization of drug laws was mention that sort of talk could not be allowed on ATS. Apparently fomenting violence with talk of raiding foreign countries and killing brown people is perfectly fine though.

One of the many reasons I spend less and less time on ATS.

Originally posted by Erongaricuaro
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

Yes, government forces might as well give up the battle and find a new strategy at the Americas Summit this week in Cartagena. The narcos have all the money and the best and latest military equipment money can buy, like this custom-built assault vehicle, which BTW is air-conditioned too:
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/388a1d5639d5.jpg[/atsimg]
Not to mention the cartels are also well-armed, courtesy of the US ATF.

edit on 11-4-2012 by Erongaricuaro because: (no reason given)

All that equipment and weaponry would become useless if we just ended the war on drugs.

The only way to win this war is to not fight it.


Time to start treating drug dependence as a public health issue instead of as a crime.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by PulsusMeusGallo

 

Well, it was interesting chatting with you.

I won't lie and agree, it wasn't interesting "chatting" with you as I tire of people who misrepresent facts by distorting them to prop up their own misdirected opinions. Opinions which as I have shown, in your case, are completely fool's fodder.

Originally posted by PulsusMeusGallo

...constant, repetitive and purposeful distortions ...does not fit their agenda and/or their obfuscated viewpoints on life in Mexico...

FYI. I have a place in Merida and share one in Tulum.If peeps don't want to come to Mexico to live, fine by me.

I would like to spend some time visiting your pueblos, they are both beautiful places of historical interest. I'm afraid I would miss many of the sights being entirely distracted by sampling your regional cuisine. I live in Morelia which is another remarkable city with many attractions, though I believe the only thing we may have on you is our weather. It is a three-hour drive to the beaches from here.

Coming to Mexico is a bit like visiting the Louvre or claiming to have no interest in doing so after seeing a photograph of the Mona Lisa.