Have we as a civilization out-grown god?

Not sure which forum to post in move if needed.

Most educated adults today would agree on the fact that religion is the cause of most of the world's problems. The bible is bunk. We didn't get created by a man in his own image. I'm sorry if this is news to you.

Like a teenager who has outgrown a fairytale book, most of us are searching for a deeper understanding of the universe we live in. Science has many times over shown the story of humanities beginning just doesn't add up. We are finally beginning to comprehend the randomness and complete lack of need for logic in nature. Scientist's now believe there to be billions of planet's capable of supporting life. Can we really be so self absorbed to think that all of this is for us? Hell no, we are just along for the ride.

Could you accept that the universe is pointless?

If we as a species want to survive the next 100 years we are going to have to take the training wheels off and accept some responsibility for our own fate.

So our next step would be to make organised religion in western society illegal, remove the church and pope from power. Each religous building (including masonic lodges) in each town can be changed from church to "community centre". If people such as my grandmother want somewhere to go on a sunday, they can go and socialise with other people from their community.

Then we would want to investigate the backrounds of all government staff and officals and remove those of any religion.

I believe these steps to be fundemental in humanities recovery and advancement. Very interested in what other people think about this?

Could it be done?

No i disagree, we have not outgrown God, religon yes but never God. God will always be there. Technology means nothing to the faithful.

Originally posted by Samuelis

Most educated adults today would agree on the fact that religion is the cause of most of the world's problems.

Not this educated adult
MONEY is the cause of most of the world's problems, not religion. When (and only when) we realize that we don't need money anymore, then our societies can begin to heal.

reply to post by Samuelis

So our next step would be to make organised religion in western society illegal, remove the church and pope from power.

Well, you can't do that. No sooner are you creating an authoritarian state far worse than any religious organization.

I would agree though, that the churches be prosecuted for their crimes. Extremist churches or mosques as well. There is enough crime in them to warrant proper investigations. No more leaving them out because they supposedly worship deities.

reply to post by Samuelis


As much as I agree with you, and share your standpoint, making organized religion illegal would be a breach of basic human rights.

Religion in various forms has been with us humans since we first developed language and started experiencing altered states through the ingestion of hallucinogens. Spiritualism is our right as individuals. It's institutions like the roman catholic church that should be gotten rid of IMO, but that probably wouldn't solve anything. People just need to stop being stupid, and well, alongside religion stupidity is one of mankind's most prevalent and traits. Stupidity may not be as antiquated as religion though, for example a stupid caveman was a dead caveman, nowadays we have professional uber-idiots who breeze though life and sleep soundly at night like big man-sized stupid babies.

Originally posted by Haites
No i disagree, we have not outgrown God, religon yes but never God. God will always be there. Technology means nothing to the faithful.

Yeah sure, the faithful use technology when it suits em.

So the goal of a world you want to make has no freedom or choice in it. Sounds like you re reinventing the spanish inquisition on the other side of the coin.

I notice that you say you do not have a religion but a religion is just a set of ideas. Seems you have created youre own religion whose worship revolves around the dismissal of religion. Irony, I love it!

Also money is not the root of evil. i like my money, I like spending it and I like having it. Those that dont have money dont deserve it if they wont earn it so their better off without it. For me I like to be able to sue a drive through without having three goats in my back seat to barter with. Also people without money or who dont have enough should be places as wards to those who have money so they can be useful since their life never had purpose or direction it would be good to let those who are successful guide them to a future where they are useful to society rather than a drag on the socioeconomic environment of the people around them.

As was stated earlier money is root of all evil.

People are just using religion as a means of accumulating wealth.

While I disagree with religion, I think an outright ban is improper. People should be free to do as they will. A comprehensive ban would result in martyrdom and increased extremism.

The most one can hope for is that religion will putter out as more facts to the contrary are revealed.

Most adults I meet/know blindly follow whatever religion was prominent in their household growing up. I'd say more of the younger generation rejects organized religion, people in their 20's and 30's, but most adults? No way.

Ask yourself why we don't have a single representative in any branch of government who is an open atheist, or even agnostic.

I was raised in a religious household, now reject all forms of organized religions aside from some Buddhist teachings, but am very spiritual, and constantly questioning life. In my experience among many church goers, is they know next to nothing about other religions, are pretty ignorant to the beliefs of others because generally deep down inside most believe their way is the better way-in organized religion, and even though they subscribe to a religion they have given that religion little thought aside from an hour on Sunday.

Until that changes, and more people actually question/deeply analyze organized religion, I don't think we'll see much change in America, until the generation now in their 20's and 30's is where the baby boomers are now. Many of the older religious people I know also get their mews from Fox News or CNN, which says a lot of the bubble they live in and how little they question life.

And no that isn't all, some older folks obviously reject organized religion and the MSM, but the majority of church goers and the majority of the viewing audience for the fake MSM news channels are older folks.

I would like to think we have but it seems like not everyone in the class is up to speed. Could we get these guys a tutor? I'd like to graduate on time.

God seems to be hardwired in humans. Possibly encoded in the DNA to keep up from eating our young and destroying each other before we even got started. Most of us are old enough to understand the logic and reasoning, for being good for the sake of being good. It's good for you, good for me, good for the whole human race.

I would like there to be a god and the world is so complex and amazing it's either the greatest coincidence ever or?. There are things that are beautiful for no other reason that just to be beautiful. Why would that happen for no reason at all? I want there to be a god just so I could say how grateful I am just to be here experiencing life.

reply to post by tigpoppa


That's why I asked the question, could it be done? I dont accept the fact that as a human right we "get to" be a part of the worlds biggest pyramid scheme.

I never said we as individuals couldn't believe what we want.

Originally posted by Bone75

Originally posted by Samuelis

Most educated adults today would agree on the fact that religion is the cause of most of the world's problems.

Not this educated adult

MONEY is the cause of most of the world's problems, not religion. When (and only when) we realize that we don't need money anymore, then our societies can begin to heal.

Money is the problem, not religion? They're both huge problems. Look no further than the Vatican.

reply to post by Samuelis


I shouldn't say this but religion is poison and fiat currency is the root of all unbalanced thoughts...governments are not the way they should be....dems pols don't mean anything anymore......just my 5 cents(no penny's here anymore soon)

I believe as a society god has been outgrown......

Just as we have outgrown civility, morals, hope and caring about anything of consequence.

I am not religious nor do I believe in god but I believe that back when most of the country was a believer
that we were better off.

Although I feel it was a belief in a false system it did give people a moral compass to follow and many did for the most part.

So I agree with the statement that were in the mess we are in because we have taken "GOD" out of the classrooms and mainstream America even though I don't believe in him being a real entity.

Society has outgrown the idea of God. Yes. But that doesn't mean people have become less religious and dogmatic.

reply to post by Samuelis


Outgrowing our perception of God, yes, but "God" itself, no, because the concept is ineffable by our current perceptions and level of consciousness, so it will always be on the table as long as we remain conscious. When our consciousness expands into the realms of "Godliness", we'll better understand what it all is, and some people are further ahead than others in that understanding. That doesn't mean they are better than others, because they stop to help the rest of humanity catch up - such is the godlike quality of unconditional love. As we evolve, so does God and our concept of God - so we can never really rule out a "God", but we can change our understanding of it.

As for the universe being here without reason: I cannot possibly agree with that. I see the universe as being here because it wants to be here, because it needs to be here. Galaxies form because they want to be galaxies, like an organism coming into being from "seemingly nothing", or the "accident" that the right material just happened to be there at the right time to meet with another material to create an organism - galaxies even resemble organisms in structure. And all the stars, planets, clouds, etc. that make up a galaxy are like different cells within that organism, and as you keep digging deeper and deeper you get the whole fractal thing going on - being able to zoom in or zoom out for infinity. You can say that it's all there because it's conscious. That may be difficult to understand, but if you think about a multidimensional consciousness that permeates everything (my definition of God), then it kind of makes sense. Look at a galaxy again, then look at the process of galaxies merging - doesn't it resemble the "two or more becoming one" thing, like a marriage or the opposite of mitosis? It comes together and becomes more massive. Sooner or later that massive one absorbs another one, and it keeps doing that over billions and billions of years. And the whole universe seems to be going towards a single point, but everything within the universe, like humans, seems to be expanding FROM a single point!

All of this being here by mistake, or by accident... it's absurd to me to consider that, but to each his own.

reply to post by mwood


Babies cry in sympathy when another baby is crying. Studies have shown even lab mice will do without to help another. Have you ever looked into the eyes of a newborn baby? In those eyes is something good something pure. I believe we are all born knowing good but sometimes learn wrong on the way. I have seen people put themselves at risk to save a stranger. Yes I know there are people who do not act human sometimes but most people without even having to think twice about it will jump in a do the right thing for no apparent reason at all. This keep me interested and watching.

I think we should do away with individual churches and have Spiritual Centers instead. Anyone who wants to practice religion/spirituality goes to the same place.

No more priests/clergy - - man representing God. Only a Spiritual place where you connect with your God yourself.

Maybe then they'd all realize we are all the same.

reply to post by Annee


I like where you are going with this. When my children were small I told them they could be whatever religion they wanted to be, just as soon as they were old enough to read the texts themselves and not just because of what someone told them it said. I am proud to say my son has read almost every religious text he could get his hands on from a variety of faiths christianity, islam, sikhism, hinduism, buddhism, bali the list keeps growing and so does he.

Originally posted by Samuelis

Most educated adults today would agree on the fact that religion is the cause of most of the world's problems.

If they do, they are in dire need of further education.

To blame the majority of the worlds problems on religion is shallow tripe. To want to forcibly disallow religion is to show that you are guilty of at least some of what you are blaming on religion, either a thirst for power or a pedantic and narcissistic belief that you know what is best for everyone and will make their decisions for them.

Eric