There can be no Good without Evil

reply to post by getreadyalready


The insignificant nobody me is not important, thus it matters not whom is late or early, as long as a useful message can be shared to all.

What matters more is you, the reader. Anything can be considered as 'good', so long as it can help to elevate us beyond the jungles and its laws, leaving none behind.

We know evil is bad, for it harms and hurts ourself and others, but by itself, as a semantic term, it can be good if we, flawed humans, can reflect upon what had happened, recognise those acts that were evil, correct them, so that we can progress and evolve.

Evil is only a semantic term. It is those acts of evil that are not good and must be avoided, or mankind will only bang its head upon the wall yet again, with the efforts of our forefathers to correct errors go in vain.

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101


I was just trying to be a little humorous, but in reality I don't believe evil exists. I don't believe anyone ever undertakes any activity with the intention of doing evil. They always have some justification that makes them think their act is righteous or serves a worthwhile purpose. This goes from Hitlers and Mercenaries to Serial Killers. None of them consider themselves evil, and therefore there acts might seem evil to us, but it is just a difference of opinion.

Even those that practice Satanism and Luciferianism are not evil. They are acting with what they consider good intentions. They aren't trying to destroy the world, what sense would that make?

There is no such thing as evil, and that is exactly why without evil there can't be any good, because the only way to define either good or evil is to put it on a sliding scale and compare and contrast each unique occurence in your own opinion...... but even then everyone's opinion will be different.

This is also precisely why it is worthless to legislate morality and have nanny-type laws to protect us from ourselves. They don't work, because we can never agree on what is actually right or wrong, because in reality neither one exists.

Originally posted by Astyanax
reply to post by Tecumte

 

There can be no 'good' without 'evil'??? Why exactly?

The suggestion is that good and evil are conceptual opposites, and that we would not be able to define or perceive one except in relation to the other. I agree that this is a conjecture based on unexamined premises and it could very well be wrong. However, since we all know good and evil from our own experience, it doesn't make any practical difference whether the proposition is true or not.

It is a bit cynical to suggest, as the OP seems to do, that it is necessary for there to be evil in the world in order for us (or for God) to be good.

'Free will"??? Is it the same in everyone? Is the will of those coerced just as 'free' as the will of those not?

I have to say I never see the exercise of free will in others – whenever I observe somebody else speak or act rationally, it is clear that they are acting under the impetus as well as the constraints of current circumstances, history and genetics. When they act irrationally it is usually under the influence of some drug, hormone or mental trauma. Either way, their will does not seem very free.

When I perceive myself speak or act, on the other hand, I strongly feel as though my chosen actions are freely willed. I perceive myself weighing facts, considering circumstances, making decisions and acting on them. Quite the man of decision, me.

But when I review all later, in tranquillity, I notice those same forces – circumstances, history and genetics – have influenced my behaviour, too. Often it is clear to me that I could not have acted any other way than that in which I did.

One of the proposed solutions to the Problem of Evil is that free will is a good thing and we recognize it as such, and that is why our Creator has endowed us with it. The price of free will, however, is that we often make the wrong choices, do the wrong things, and hence pain and suffering – evil – come into the world. God could eradicate evil pain and suffering, but only at the cost of extinguishing our free will, which would turn us into his unthinking puppets – so He doesn't, much as it pains Him to look down upon our suffering.

There are several serious objections to this view, which you can probably work out for yourself. However, the whole argument collapses if it turns out there is no free will after all...

Can love exist without hate???

Can pleasure exist without pain???

I think so, but then I'm likely a heratic.

reply to post by mirrormaker326

'Better to shun the bait than struggle in the snare.' You've internalized Blake's words and employ them as a tactic.

If you had simply presented your case, rather than tried to 'catch me out', we might have had a more satisfactory conversation.

You feel your definition of Evil is adequate and I don't.

I am not interested in what you feel.

This discussion has accomplished everything it ever will, and continuing at this point is an exercise in futility.

Why, then, do you continue? I have certainly given you no encouragement.

There is no such thing as "your truth" or "my truth".

Precisely. I am right and you are wrong.

The truth of this thread is that we will not agree, and no number of smug retorts will change that.

Happily, agreement with you is not one of my life goals. Mind how you go.

TextThere is no such thing as evil, and that is exactly why without evil there can't be any good, because the only way to define either good or evil is to put it on a sliding scale and compare and contrast each unique occurence in your own opinion...... but even then everyone's opinion will be different.

reply to post by getreadyalready


You have a good point as far as you go and I might add a very well thought out point to consider. Good or and evil is not the same as cold or hot. You cannot understand or comprehend hot without knowing what cold is. High or low or big or small or sweet or sour etc.. Everything must have an opposite for our understanding in this physical plane. But when it comes to evil or good then that is a horse of another color isn't it? Why? Because evil and or good is a perception of thought and has to be instilled in the brain.

How did evil or good become instilled in the mindset of the human? Was it taught and if taught who taught it? The Creationists tell us that God taught it to the first humans that He created. Now if that is true then good i is a natural element of God while evil is that which is opposite of this element. Instead of showing this on a physical plane, God had to show this in a spiritual plane or mind. Then in effect God is that scale or ruler that shows both physical and spiritual observations.

Why would I say physical and spiritual? Because the Creationists believe that the physical plane is this terrestrial or earthly body which can sense opposites which are determined by our five senses. The mind is a spiritual plane and requires a spiritual revelation. This is explained in the book of Genesis as man being created in the image and likeness of God. The image of God is that visible spiritual realm while the likeness is that of the invisible spiritual realm. Some creationists view this as God having both physical identification and invisibility the very same as He created man. Now if the creationists are right, then the mind must also have rules the same as the body has rules.

This explains, to the creationists, why these mind teachings are to be observed as Laws. They believe that the mind (spirit) controls the body. The physical plane automatically takes care of itself such as when you smash your finger you know that it hurts and that is evil or not good. Some people do not realize that the reason Cain was not punished was simply because he did not understand that the act of murder was wrong. Cain was given a mark of identification to protect him not punish him. After he was taught that he should not kill, then he more than likely instilled this in the minds of his offspring. It is believed that God then gave Adam seven laws to educate his offspring.

Meanwhile the spirit of man controls his or her actions.and this was instilled in people from the onset of civilization. Nevertheless, most acts of transgression of the laws in any culture are a result of deliberately doing evil in that culture. Or as they perceive evil. Yet in another culture that which is evil to the Creationist can be good to that culture. Where then is that ruler? Each culture had its own ruler. This even breaks down to a tribe or family and then down to an individual.


Now all of this works hand in glove with choice. If we were without choice then we would not be liable for our mindset but we have choice in order to know good or evil. You can have good or evil, such as Cain did, without knowledge to choose but then what purpose is there in that to a Creator? So Moses wrote that the tree in the garden was a tree of knowledge to do good or evil. Not that good and evil did not exist at this time because it did exist as they made the choice to eat of that tree which looked pretty good to them. So this shows that Adam and Eve already had choice instilled in the brain. Now that differs with us today because we have both choice and the knowledge to do good or evil instilled in our minds when we are born. We do not have to eat of a tree to know good or evil.

So where am I going with all of this rambling? Well, I guess nowhere cause I can't prove a thing of what I said. Just a little of what I was taught and even then who knows my teacher was not as muddled as I am. By the way this country is going it won;t be much longer that what is good today will be evil tomorrow. Thanks for bending your ear.

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101


I can't even get into everything that is not true in what you've written - it's all pure dogma - false teaching to keep humans from the real truth!

Every step away from the Creator that is the Source of all that exists degenerates more and more - that is why those generations closest to the Creator are the most perfect and each generation creates the one below it. It is like the way data degenerates and is corrupted the more you share it and copy it. Thus at some stage evil came into being and at some stage later humans were created by lesser 'gods' (aliens). The fact is that the Source Creator is incapable of destruction and is incapable of destroying evil; not because it doesn't have the power, but because it is not in its capacity to do so on account of being 100% perfect. It has been postulated by some posters on other forums that perhaps the purpose for which humans were made - is to conquer evil and to destroy it.

Originally posted by IamJoy
It has been postulated by some posters on other forums that perhaps the purpose for which humans were made - is to conquer evil and to destroy it.

Humans have a lot of sex. Thus it seems plausible that humans were made to have sex so that the alien overlords have something to watch while masturbating. Now also this has been postulated on forums.