Did the Cop go too far???

Hello everyone, I came across this clip that was made this past weekend here in Chicago, IL during the crazy St. Patrick's Day party that takes over the whole city of Chicago. With Chicago being my neck of the woods, and with this being a story thats circulating around town, I was hoping to get the opinions of my fellow ATSers to whether this cop crossed the line with this kid. It's St. Patrick's Day, of course people are drunk and sometimes get a little out of control, but my question is, should cops show more restraint? Do you believe the cop acted in an appropiate manner on the video? Was the choking around the neck too far? Anyways below is the clip, please let me know what you think...

To the Mods, I was unsure what forum to stick this in, if its in the wrong forum i do apologize...




www.youtube.com...

Looks like the video has been taken down already.

What a surprise!

Originally posted by poet1b

Looks like the video has been taken down already.

What a surprise!

Well I attached the youtube link to it which is good.

reply to post by poet1b


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Originally posted by boncho
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Thank you... I very rarely start topics or post videos to ATS, so I really dont know what Im doing...

I don't even want to comment on this one.

Like to hear xCat's thoughts though. (Sorry brother)

reply to post by jhn7537


Looks like a fun street party, might have to check that out one of these years.

My personal opinion is the cop went overboard with choking the kid out when he did. The kid no doubt was asking for it by yelling in the cops face and maybe 10 seconds before he was grabbed he was putting his finger in the cops face in kind of a threatening matter. Seems like the girl had the situation defused though when the cop finally grabbed him, I dunno.

One thing that gets me about all the police brutality claims in situations like this is that back in the day it was just common knowledge that if you got lippy with a cop you were going to be pile driven into the concrete. Not saying it's right but if you decide to stick your finger in someones face who is probably just waiting for the chance to body slam someone you're kind of asking for it.

reply to post by QuestionsEverything


You should check it out, it's honestly a great time, people do pub crawls all around town, its truly a good time... And for anyone from Chicago you know that you NEVER mouth off to Chicago cops because what happened in this video will typically ALWAYS happen, if not something worse... The only issue i have is should the cops be allowed to get away with this just becasue this is the way its always been? I'm so borderline on this video, I believe the cop acted wrong at first, but once he restrained him on the ground i didnt have a problem with him holding the kid down until his backup came...

If I had been there I would have made a citizens arrest and arrested that freak at gunpoint if necessary. It is about time the citizens of your country grow a spine. All those witnesses and no one acts. Shame on your society.

P

reply to post by QuestionsEverything

One thing that gets me about all the police brutality claims in situations like this is that back in the day it was just common knowledge that if you got lippy with a cop you were going to be pile driven into the concrete. Not saying it's right but if you decide to stick your finger in someones face who is probably just waiting for the chance to body slam someone you're kind of asking for it.

Family member that is with Police Services sees himself as a mediator. He tries to resolve every professional situation he is in with peaceful resolution. I've heard some horror stories where it didn't work, and even then he usually just blames it on some underlying factor that affected the person. Most honest person I know. Should be in politics but they surely wouldn't want him.

Has a great track record of making bad situations good. So I don't see why provocation from LEOs is needed. Sometimes people need to vent (granted it shouldn't be at this authority, venting should probably be directed at your politicians) but, it's not to say that you can't have officers that are good people persons, and know how to bring the best resolution.

Those are the ones that deserve every honor bestowed upon departments. And it's about time they start receiving that honor again because they are not supposed to be the enemy.

reply to post by jhn7537


Yeah I might have to make a road trip next year, not too far from where I am. I'm kinda back on forth on this stuff too, maybe suspend the cop for a week without pay and hit the kid with a drunk and disorderly for being belligerent. Let them both learn something from the altercation.

I kinda feel for the cops in these situations, it'd be hard to have to constantly restrain yourself with d-bags yelling in your face telling you what a piece of @$#& you are all the time. I used to be highly anti-police when I was younger but then one of my best friends became a state cop (he used to feel the same way about them lol) and I got to know some of the people he works with and most of them are pretty stand-up guys.

One more thing to consider is many cops are ex-military or reserves like my buddy and it's probably not the greatest idea to try and start %&^* with someone whose had that kind of a mindset drilled into their very core.

This is a tough one.

I'm leaning toward the cop feeling insecure and humiliated by that kid in front of the crowd and decided to redeem his manhood so he could sleep that night. I don't think the kid deserved the throat hold based on what the video shows him doing, which is basically just mouthing off with a few hand gestures. The cop's ego made him react like he did, which I don't think is a justifiable reason to throat grab the kid...

Now if the cop was smart he would have let the kid escalate the situation more and eventually do something that would require the heavy hand.

SOME Cops think a bruised ego is a reason to arrest someone, pepper spray them, or taze them or maybe even throat grab them etc...

Being mouthy and obstinate is not a crime...

Its hard to tell what happened before to get them in this situation though so really its unfair to make a complete judgement. I'm just judging what I saw...

For all we know that kid assaulted the cop or someone else and the cop was being lenient to trying give the kid a chance to apologize or whatever...then the cameras kicked in...

the period before the altercation is important to make a full judgement imho.

Originally posted by boncho
I don't even want to comment on this one.

Like to hear xCat's thoughts though. (Sorry brother)

Lol no worries... I would prefer people ask questions on these topics and not jump to the 100 meter rush to judgment. If the answer is one that people don't care for then at least they have specific information that will assist them when they challenge the law.

Chicago cop chokes young St. Paddy reveler on camera

Here is the link to the MSN article.

I would like to see what occurred before they started filming and what the initial contact was all about. I really dont want to Monday morning quarterback the officer without having all the facts.

Based on what we see in the video and nothing else the officers actions were not justified in the least. With the officers size difference (case by case argument) I dont see why the officer chose that action. I don't think the officer choked the kid out though. I consider a choke out to be the LVNR (Lateral Vascular Neck Restraint) (lamens terms a crude Vulcan nerve pinch)

For what its worth most agencies will train officers in LVNR. That technique has the officer maneuvering the person they are dealing with into a position where the officers arm muscle pressure presses against the artery in the neck. It creates a decreased blood supply to the brain, resulting in the person "blacking out". Most agencies classify that technique towards the danger side of the force continuum / resistance control. The reason for that is if you dont press hard enough, the technique will not work. If you press to hard there is a possibility of severe damage occurring to the brain which could result in death from lack of circulation .

IF it was an oral argument only then I dont see how the officer can justify the action. Grabbing an individual by the throat in the manner the officer did is nowhere (based on my knowledge) in any training I have ever had. Its possible its a technique Chicago PD might use though being it is Chicago and its located in the Democratic Peoples Republic of Illinois.

Again based on the limited info we have and not knowing what occurred for the officer to make contact I would say the action was excessive. It also looks like the officer escalated the situation, again based solely on the info we have.

Absent information that changes the context / justification the action needs to be reviewed / investigated.

I cant stress this enough - my opinion is based solely on the info we have.

As a side note people need to pay attention to this investigation. Being it occurred in Illinois I am curious to see if Chicago PD goes after the person who recorded the encounter. Even more so since it does place the PD into a bad light based on the officers actions.

Any other Leos / Lawyers in the thread who sees it in a different context speak up.

reply to post by Xcathdra


I definitely appreciate your input on this video... Unfortunately I wasnt the one video taping, and I was also at a different part of the city when this happened so I cant gived you anymore information on how the incident started... But in the video if you listen to the people in the background at the end they say that the kid could have walked away 10 minutes ago but stayed to argue with the officer, so who knows.... I'm definitely on the fence with this one, who knows maybe the kid threatened the cop or something, but you are right when you said the cop is MUCH bigger than that tiny little kid....

Just curious but are you an officer?

Forget the cop....I'm more repulsed by the Romanesque jubilation of the crowd when the situation turns ugly.

I think in the context of what you see in this video, that is just as bad as any perceived impropriety on the part of the officer.

reply to post by boncho


I agree with you that they are catching a lot of flak these days and they also do a good thing in dealing with some of the worst that society has to offer, but like your family member they should definitely first try to peacefully resolve a situation before going with the ole choke slam.

There are some videos out there showing some true police brutality that is unexcusable and those cops should be dealt with more severely then they usually are. I think if a cop has been found to be criminally accountable for beating someone they ought to have enhanced sentencing guidelines imposed on them versus what the general public faces.

There is a lot of responsibility that comes with being in a position of authority like that and it should always be foremost in their minds when dealing with the public.

reply to post by jhn7537


He "Chested up " and was put in his place.

'Nuff said.

There is a saying...

"Don't let your Battleship mouth over run your rowboat ass."

reply to post by TDawgRex

Originally posted by TDawgRex
"Don't let your Battleship mouth over run your rowboat ass."

Classic.

Originally posted by jhn7537
I definitely appreciate your input on this video... Unfortunately I wasnt the one video taping, and I was also at a different part of the city when this happened so I cant gived you anymore information on how the incident started... But in the video if you listen to the people in the background at the end they say that the kid could have walked away 10 minutes ago but stayed to argue with the officer, so who knows....

You are welcome.. Like I said though its my opinion based on the info. I really would like to see the lead up to put it all into context.

As far as the kid being able to walk away it makes me wonder why the officer stayed and continued the back and forth (as well as the individual). I've had a few situations like that where I just up and walked away (there are exceptions of course). As far as the term argument goes, again I would like to hear the exchange.

Originally posted by jhn7537
I'm definitely on the fence with this one, who knows maybe the kid threatened the cop or something, but you are right when you said the cop is MUCH bigger than that tiny little kid....

I usually lecture on the size difference and actions taken, which is to say it generally is not a factor when it comes to the possible damage / injuries that could occur. Ive seen small people beat the crap out of muscular people....

I think a directed escort using the guys arm would have been a better choice, again based on the info we have.

Originally posted by jhn7537
Just curious but are you an officer?

That depends on your point of view lol.

If you hate cops then my title is jack booted thug who puts the gestapo to shame.
If your ok with cops then yes I am.
If your a sovereign citizen type I am an agent of the corporation I work for and am considered a Police Officer instead of a Peace Officer.

Your choice..

While trying to find more information I came across the video on liveleak. Its the same the OP included however, at least to me, the audio is a bit better. The words that set the officer off was a threat. Apparently the kid told the cop he would "# him up".

If the kid was making comments like that during the course of the exchange then it could be taken as a threat towards the officer. We see the kid step back and then jump forward which would go along with totality of circumstances. Its where a chain of actions / events occur that when taken individually does not really escalate the situation. However when you take all the actions / events as a whole, it could lead a person to believe they are in imminent danger.

There are multiple options that could have been taken so I'm not entirely sure why the throat grab was first up.

Again based on my opinion. I really do not want to second guess since I was not present and dont have all the facts / info.