Total deaths caused by direct US actions in the world compared to total US deaths by terror...

Well....

Even if the United States has been directly involved with the deaths of millions over the last two hundred years, they have still done such a good job at hiding it that all of you spouting anti-american rhetoric on this post look like total kooks and nutjobs, unable to mount a non-hateful reasonable post.

My, My God it's good to be American, with a country that is the most powerful...AND smart and crafty too.

DeltaChaos


It's very sad to see so many young people that poor education In public schools in this country have bypass the teaching in world history or perhaps young people find it to boring to even care.

Go back in history and see how the US humble begining were built on blood and how this nation has done it's deals through history with the rest of the world.

When you are at it take a look at what another irrational act did to the country of Jappan.

But that is ok they are peachy and living the american way of life with American help. We made then forget the A-bomb.

And again we tend to forget that some mistakes does cause death. Look at Iraq.

[edit on 21-9-2004 by marg6043]

Wow, with that holier than thou voice, are you related to John Kerry, by chance?

Originally posted by soulforge
Wow, with that holier than thou voice, are you related to John Kerry, by chance?

Actually I was a bush believer from a Republican family, but for some reason my believes in bush die between Aghanistan and Iraq.

That's ok I am not the only one.

Nothing harmfull meant, just a joking jab...

Hey FlyersFan,

I agree with what you say, but I have to correct you about the Soviet Union in World War 2. You mentioned that the Soviet Union could not defeat Germany by themselves.

Let me correct you, the Soviet Union could have defeated Germany, and overran all of Europe if they wanted too. The United States and Britain landed in Normandy to absolutely stop what I just mentioned, a �Soviet Europe.�

Since Stalingrad, where Field Marshall Von Paulus 6th army was annihilated and near 250,000 Elite Germany troops were killed or captured Russia began rapidly advancing toward Berlin with impunity. Later when Germany�s main tank army and shock troops were killed in Kursk, their was no hope whatsoever for a German victory.

Russia defeated the German�s mostly on their own� United States shipped them some trucks and Sherman tanks, but they did not play a decisive factor in the war.

Germany used 75%-80% of their forces on the Russian front alone!!!! The allies only had to fight through 20%-25%. On top of this lower percentage the Allies had to wade through, they also fought mostly the �worst troops the Germans had to offer.� Old men, boys, and OST battalions. Ost Batallions were captured enemy soldiers, that were usually Russian or Polish. OST battalions manned the Atlantic Wall. What if the Allies had to combat against �6th� army quality troops in France? Well, they wouldn�t have made it off the beaches.

Now, before people say� See, American invaded France for their own damn dirty interests! Let me remind you� Stalin was a far worse man than Hitler. More women and men were killed by Stalin than any other ruler in the history of the world. Undoubtedly, American and British and forces saved MILLION of lives from the Russians.

If you don�t believe me� look up what the Russians did to the �liberated Russian POWs,� and read up on Stalin�s invasion plan of Western Europe that consisted of a �sacrificial� army of one million men.

No, I�m not some Soviet madman. I�m an American who gets upset when people don�t appreciate what the Russians accomplished in World War 2.


-Note-
I do realize the Germans used OST on the Eastern front as well, along with their share of old men and boys. But nowhere near the level on the West.

Originally posted by marg6043
DeltaChaos


It's very sad to see so many young people that poor education In public schools in this country have bypass the teaching in world history or perhaps young people find it to boring to even care.

What? Are you talking to me? First of all, I'm old (enough to spank you), and second, my mind is currently burning laps around your blue turban.

Go back in history and see how the US humble begining were built on blood and how this nation has done it's deals through history with the rest of the world.

Yessss. I'm going back in history now...

I'm seeing young people, born to the colonists of the new world on American land, who were once considered loyal subjects of the King. They're being stripped of their basic civil rights by a heavy handed overlord faction comprised of soldiers who had been away from their homes, wives, and children for spans of years. The King, not about to let go of his ultimate goal, which is to control the new land and strip her clean of her lumber and vast resources, decrees that any colonist not willing to work overtime will feel the bite of a whip.

Now I see riots in the streets! The colonists are pissed! They're crazy!!! They're dressing up as indians and dumping tea off the bow of a ship! What the hell good is that going to do? Stupid Americans.

Wait!!! Now I see bombs bursting in air! TAKE COVER!

Just in time, here come the French, who have been sick of Englands BS for 250 years and counting, to save our arses! They sure do dress funny, and stink like hell, but who cares? They've got the bombs, right?

Look, the historical fact is that America was born out of a similar condition to all the other countries that eventually declared their independence from an exploitive and oppressive uber-nation. And that is to include Iraq, which I believe will win its independence from its occupier. With our help.

And that's about it, other than that since then until about 1900, we've fought and killed each other to the tune of about 4 million heads. But only in order to secure freedom from slavery for the blacks initially, and then to try to see if we could get some equality up in this piece!

You see, we've killed ourselves in an amount pretty much equal to those we've killed in other places around the world just to secure our own freedom and justice. The simple fact of the matter is that we want to be free, and we will fight for that freedom. Even if it is from ourselves.

But that is ok they are peachy and living the american way of life with American help. We made then forget the A-bomb.

They wanted to forget the A-bomb. They wanted everyone to forget it. They wanted it so much so that they actually wrote an entirely new national constitution exclaiming to the world that they had no intention of ever directing an unprovoked attack on anyone around the world. EVER!

Of course, that's all old news now, and they seem to be ready and willing to get back into the war game. The Japanese were born to fight. It's in their blood - it's in their genes. They are relentless...

Besides, I don't know if you know it yet, my confused little friend, and I'm sure you'll be happy when you do, but America too, will soon be nuked. It's no longer a matter of if, but when.

But maybe that's what we get from building the bomb in the first place. Maybe if all those German scientists and engineers had not defected to the US, but rather stayed in Germany, then Hitler would have had the bomb first. And wouldn't that have been pleasant?

And again we tend to forget that some mistakes does cause death. Look at Iraq.

Yes, the invasion of Iraq, the manner in which it was carried out, and the absense of planning on which its execution was based, was indeed a mistake.

George Bush for the guillotine!!!

DeltaChaos


Calm down, calm down, don't get a hard attack now, I going to agree with you only in the base that as humans we will be the end of our own race.

Originally posted by marg6043
...I going to agree with you only in the base that as humans we will be the end of our own race.

Untrue. We humans will be the champions and the victors of our own race. We will strive and strive and strive until our ultimate redemption, as we always have.

This is based on the fact that when you fight and struggle in the face of a challenge, and never quit, you will inevitably win.

We are in a situation that the collective human race will look back on a few hundred years from now and laugh... Man we were IDIOTS!

Mark my words...


Oh, and buck up, little cowboy!

Originally posted by bet555
We have won every war that we have fought ... except for Korea and even that one we have killed many a person. You know why ?

Because the Japanese bombed us at Pearl Harbor so you are d*** right we are going to fight back and we are going to DESTROY anything that stands in our way. If we haven't proven that then by all means attack us. You see people like Chechen rebels attack Russia and they offer 10 Million dollars for people to get information. You notice U.S. doesn't do that ... it is because we are smart and realized that you have to have intellegence to survive. Therefore, we have the most intelectual country in the world. We are so intellectual that people hate us, because we are so real. We tell you what we think, well most of the time we will there are those YANKS and there is Kerry who changes his mind depending on the crowd and what other people think at the time.

You are very wrong, do some research.

So Russia offers $10 million for info resulting in capture or killing of Chechnyan leaders? Well, Colin Powell announces: US puts $ 25 million bounty on Osama's head .

Also you lost the Vietnam war as well as the Korean war. In fact, try listing the Wars that America has won since the Allies defeated the Axis in WW2.

Oh and no, as much as Hollywood will have you think, America didn't win WW2 alone. And no, Americans didn't really capture the Enigma machine as the movie U571 suggests, It was the British. And no, the Americans weren't the only ones in Northern France during WW2. I think a lot of you have been relying on Hollywood to educate you and have been playing too many EA games.

As for being the most intellectual country in the world... there really wasn't anything in your post that could be considered intellectual. Which speaks for itself.

I think the one thing that we all have to get into our heads are a few theories...

1. Humans, when pushed into despair, or when faced with adversity, commonly lash out at others. It is human nature to kill. It is a bological function of predators such as were are....

2. Humans will lash out to protect themselves and their progeny, however irrational. ( The whole mother bear thing...)

3. Civilizations in general are created to organize and collect resources and to control the means of resources, namely people.

4. Everyone gets hurt, even when you try not to.

Given this, there is not a single country or civilization that has not killed. Justified or not.

But, in the case of the United States, there has never been a country that has controlled such a large portion of the world's resources and captial, yet has not acted throug war to increase their resouces. The US did a lot of evil through the Manifest Destiny policies. But, I think we've seen our errors since. We are not an empire, nor do we aspire for conventional empire. We aspire to expand our ways of life, right or wrong.

Personally, I'd rather we'd have been eviler during our wars. We go over to Europe and Japan in WW2, blow everything up, then spend our own money to rebuild it for others. We occupied for a time, then left. Of the troops we do have left over there, we plan on pulling a large number away now. Now, I see us trying to do the same in Iraq and Afganistan. Really, I'd have seen no problems with Japan as the 51 state, Portions of Germany as the 52( the Soviets deserved the other part), Italy as 53, and Afganistan and Iraq as 54 and 55. I really hate it when the radical left calls us imperialists when we gained nothing. If the war was for Oil, why's gas $1.89.

I think the biggest blunder of General Zia ul Haq (may his soul burn in the lowest ebb of hell) that he fought with USSR as an American stooge. With becoming unipolar, America has become the biggest rouge and terrorist state on the surface of the earth.

America is the criminal of the death of more than a million Iraqi Children. Even American survey reveals that more than 1.1 million people have died in Iraq since 2003.

The American adventurism has taken toll of many Afghani civilians. In my opinion to fight against the occupation forces is not a crime but a holy cause. Why should infidels voilate the sanctity of the Pakhtoons motherland? Of course, one should differentiate between criminals and those who are fighting for the liberation of their mother land. Hamid Karzai and Maliki of Iraq are both puppets of America and both do not have popular support in their countries.

Well, I must appreciate the courage of the Iraqi journalist for throwing his shoes at bastard Bush. What do you think Bush should have been garlanded for massacre of hundreds and thousands of innocent Iraqis. Bush is very shameproof person (not human being) because he has himself admitted that Iraq was attacked on wrong intelligence reports and no weapons of mass destruction were ever found there. Now what justification America, UK, Australia and NATO forces have to stay either in Iraq or Afghanistan? America must apologize to the Iraqi and Afghani people for voilating the sanctity of their mother land and should compensate them. It is not War against Terrorism but it is War for Petroleum.

America must be ashamed for her misdeeds in the past too, e.g., waging wars in Viet Nam, Cambodia, Korea and other Latin American countries.

Besides, America has blood stained hands by killing million of citizens of Japan by dropping Atomic Bombs on her two cities in WW II.

America is also responsible for letting loose Israel the mad dog of the Middle East. Israel has been killing innocent and armless citizens of Palestine for the past many decades.

In short all the American Presidents (in future) must undergo thorouogh pshcho analysis before assuming their office so that he/she may not pose threat to the peace on earth.

MQS

I have a question, do we put the 500,000 to 1 million killed on the Iraq war in the US column, or do we separate those that were killed by terrorists and those that were killed by Americans troops and American airstrikes? Sure, the US invaded Iraq, which caused an influx and upraising of insurgents, but the US did not kill these people, the terrorist did.