Sheriff Joe's posse: 'Probable cause' Obama Birth Certificate a Fraud-now a Criminal Case!

Originally posted by babybunnies
I would challenge ANYONE questioning this copy of the birth certificate to scan their own certificate and make available to the public in the same manner.

This is the key problem I found with the investigation, none of them even bothered to do a comparitive analysis of other birth certificate images, of Hawaiian images. Apparently they just singled out Obama's one, found some digital irregularities that they believe to be inconsistent (without reviewing the tests on other Hawaiian birth certificates) and that's that.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian

Originally posted by babybunnies
I would challenge ANYONE questioning this copy of the birth certificate to scan their own certificate and make available to the public in the same manner.

This is the key problem I found with the investigation, none of them even bothered to do a comparitive analysis of other birth certificate images, of Hawaiian images. Apparently they just singled out Obama's one, found some digital irregularities that they believe to be inconsistent (without reviewing the tests on other Hawaiian birth certificates) and that's that.

What, you mean do some actual work followed by using more than three brain cells?

reply to post by AngryCymraeg


Let the SCOTUS take over and go through all of it.

Then give us a quick decision.

The Sheriff Joe Arpaio Posse has done enough.

Originally posted by Eurisko2012
reply to post by AngryCymraeg

 

Let the SCOTUS take over and go through all of it.

Then give us a quick decision.

The Sheriff Joe Arpaio Posse has done enough.

SCOTUS has looked at it and has dismissed every single lunatic piece of dribble about this. As for the good Sherriff, yes he's done enough. He needs to go back to his actual job instead of being a self-important oaf who dabbles in things that are none of his business.

Originally posted by Eurisko2012
reply to post by AngryCymraeg

 

Let the SCOTUS take over and go through all of it.

Then give us a quick decision.

The Sheriff Joe Arpaio Posse has done enough.

It doesn't help that Arpaio's own state justice has turned on birthers:

Kenneth Allen vs Arizona Democratic Party
Arizona Superior court, March 7th 2012:

Most importantly, Arizona courts are bound by United States Supreme Court precedent, and this precedent fully supports that President Obama is a natural born citizen under the Constitution and thus qualified to hold the office of President. See United States v. Wong Kim Ark (addressing U. S. Const. amend. XIV) ; Ankeny v. Governor of the State of Indiana (addressing the precise issue). Contrary to Plaintiff’s assertion, Minor v. Happersett does not hold otherwise

www.scribd.com...

This after the presentation in Georgia? It just ain't happening.

Surprised birthers have not reported this yet? Had Mr Allen won this court case, would we be so silent?

reply to post by babybunnies

I would challenge ANYONE questioning this copy of the birth certificate to scan their own certificate and make available to the public in the same manner.

Sherrif Joe, Donald Trump, Sarah Palin and any birther questioning the legitimacy of the scanned certificate should all produce their birth certificates in the same type of scan and put them forward for public scrutiny under the exact same circumstances.

I would think that similar "flaws" in their birth certificate scans would be found, as well.

Thanks to the link Southern Guardian posted earlier, the National Review has done just this, and yes their optimized PDF scan resulted in multiple "layers" when viewed in Illustrator.

See the linked PDF here: PDF Layers in Obama’s Birth Certificate

Keep in mind too, that the Health Department in Hawaii is legally required to digitally add the green "anti-counterfeiting" background onto older BCs that did not have them originally, as was the case with Obama's BC.

"Sheriff" Joe and his posse's so-called investigation is so fundamentally flawed, in that he never asked a single Adobe software representative or expert how their software works, he never spoke to anyone at the Hawaii Health Department, he never made a comparative analysis. All he did was copy an equally-flawed birther "analysis" of the BC.

Originally posted by Blackmarketeer

"Sheriff" Joe and his posse's so-called investigation is so fundamentally flawed, in that he never asked a single Adobe software representative or expert how their software works, he never spoke to anyone at the Hawaii Health Department, he never made a comparative analysis. All he did was copy an equally-flawed birther "analysis" of the BC.

And it took him 6 months to do even that!

Originally posted by AngryCymraeg

Originally posted by Eurisko2012
reply to post by AngryCymraeg

 

Let the SCOTUS take over and go through all of it.

Then give us a quick decision.

The Sheriff Joe Arpaio Posse has done enough.

SCOTUS has looked at it and has dismissed every single lunatic piece of dribble about this. As for the good Sherriff, yes he's done enough. He needs to go back to his actual job instead of being a self-important oaf who dabbles in things that are none of his business.

Please present evidence to support your claim regarding SCOTUS and this issue... as a matter of fact, SCOTUS has NEVER considered or ruled on the phrase 'natural born citizen' regarding President Obama or any other potential President of VP.
en.wikipedia.org...
The natural-born-citizen clause has been mentioned in passing in several decisions of the United States Supreme Court and lower courts dealing with the question of eligibility for citizenship by birth, but the Supreme Court has never directly addressed the question of a specific presidential or vice-presidential candidate's eligibility as a natural-born citizen.

Originally posted by OldCurmudgeon

Originally posted by AngryCymraeg

Originally posted by Eurisko2012
reply to post by AngryCymraeg

 

Let the SCOTUS take over and go through all of it.

Then give us a quick decision.

The Sheriff Joe Arpaio Posse has done enough.

SCOTUS has looked at it and has dismissed every single lunatic piece of dribble about this. As for the good Sherriff, yes he's done enough. He needs to go back to his actual job instead of being a self-important oaf who dabbles in things that are none of his business.

Please present evidence to support your claim regarding SCOTUS and this issue... as a matter of fact, SCOTUS has NEVER considered or ruled on the phrase 'natural born citizen' regarding President Obama or any other potential President of VP.
en.wikipedia.org...
The natural-born-citizen clause has been mentioned in passing in several decisions of the United States Supreme Court and lower courts dealing with the question of eligibility for citizenship by birth, but the Supreme Court has never directly addressed the question of a specific presidential or vice-presidential candidate's eligibility as a natural-born citizen.

Orly Taitz. Twice the crazy! wonkette.com...

Originally posted by OldCurmudgeon

Originally posted by AngryCymraeg

Originally posted by Eurisko2012
reply to post by AngryCymraeg

 

Let the SCOTUS take over and go through all of it.

Then give us a quick decision.

The Sheriff Joe Arpaio Posse has done enough.

SCOTUS has looked at it and has dismissed every single lunatic piece of dribble about this. As for the good Sherriff, yes he's done enough. He needs to go back to his actual job instead of being a self-important oaf who dabbles in things that are none of his business.

Please present evidence to support your claim regarding SCOTUS and this issue... as a matter of fact, SCOTUS has NEVER considered or ruled on the phrase 'natural born citizen' regarding President Obama or any other potential President of VP.
en.wikipedia.org...
The natural-born-citizen clause has been mentioned in passing in several decisions of the United States Supreme Court and lower courts dealing with the question of eligibility for citizenship by birth, but the Supreme Court has never directly addressed the question of a specific presidential or vice-presidential candidate's eligibility as a natural-born citizen.

That would work out well. The SCOTUS could rule that ObamaCare is unconstitutional

and they could rule that Obama is - not - a natural born citizen. - 1 -2 punch -

reply to post by AngryCymraeg


Hi AC... but in reading your link, respectfully I still do not see where the purported issue involving President Obama, or the phrase, "natural born citizen" was ever submitted to SCOTUS.

Regardless of the outcome of the 'natural born citizen' issue haunting President Obama, this issue should have long ago been addressed and now must be, and SCOTUS 'must' rule to put this issue to rest once and for all.

reply to post by OldCurmudgeon


The issue isn't an issue. The scotus won't rule because it's been defined and accepted by proxy decisions many times.

All the rulings wherein someone is born here to foreign parents and that enters into decision, have all gone one way for decades and decades.. Being born in America makes you American, unless your the kid if a diplomat or something. Obama was not an exception. He was just another kid born in America, who did something very American; he went from rags to riches to President.

If we had ANY sense we'd be bragging about what an amazing country we have, the land of opportunity, etc., instead of trying to rewrite decades of law to demonise our president, for a short term political boost.

Originally posted by captainnotsoobvious
reply to post by OldCurmudgeon

 

The issue isn't an issue. The scotus won't rule because it's been defined and accepted by proxy decisions many times.

All the rulings wherein someone is born here to foreign parents and that enters into decision, have all gone one way for decades and decades.. Being born in America makes you American, unless your the kid if a diplomat or something. Obama was not an exception. He was just another kid born in America, who did something very American; he went from rags to riches to President.

If we had ANY sense we'd be bragging about what an amazing country we have, the land of opportunity, etc., instead of trying to rewrite decades of law to demonise our president, for a short term political boost.

The fact is Sir, the issue of the determination of the phrase "natural born citizen" stills exists and legally has not been clarified and only SCOTUS will ever put the issue to sleep. Scotus has never ruled, as the issue has never been submitted to them to refuse or recuse:

This fact has been clearly stated over and again and as the following from wikipedia.
The natural-born-citizen clause has been mentioned in passing in several decisions of the United States Supreme Court and lower courts dealing with the question of eligibility for citizenship by birth, but the Supreme Court has never directly addressed the question of a specific presidential or vice-presidential candidate's eligibility as a natural-born citizen. NBC has only been mentioned in passing and this lends no legal opinion whatsoever.

The real question is, and everyone seems to dodge it, "IF" President Obama WAS born in Hawaii then he could be considered a NBC by 'right of birth'.
But what if he was NOT???, and as this Sir still is the question which has never been clearly defined, and regardless how anyone attempts to camoflage or ignore the ssue, if he was not born in Hawaii, Mr. Obama is an American citizen and but NOT a NBC, thus he was never eligable under current constitutional law and opinion to be the President or the VP. No problem having been in Congress and many other offices, just not POTUS or VP.

As research shows currently there are as many opinions by noted legal academics* 'for' as there are 'against' the meaning of the phrase, NBC, so then it rather becomes a 'he said she said' at this point, or a push if you like, and without this issue being formally submitted to and ruled on once and for all by SCOTUS, this will never be resolved and potentially could haunt candidates far into the future.

As to opinions for and against, per wikipedia"

*Gabriel J. Chin, Professor of Law at the University of Arizona believes under the current law that not all persons born OUTSIDE of the United States to U.S. citizen parents are eligible to serve under the natural born citizen clause.
And:
* For example, in her 1988 article in the Yale Law Journal, Jill Pryor wrote, "It is well settled that 'native-born' citizens, those BORN in the United States, qualify as natural born."

I assume you are aware that legally, the United States Congress in amendments, even such as the Naturalization Act may not overrule the Constitution without authority.

So this issue still requires resolution on the highest level, i.e. SCOTUS.

Whether Obama was born in Kenya or Hawaii and for our sake, I hope Hawaii, I am sad as our first black President of which I am proud of the fact (and await the election of our first female President) has been hamstrung by this issue and other failures of previous administrations.

But the fact still remains, from an investigative standpoint, 'probable cause' is evident and makes a full investigation responsible and warranted.

Frankly, I am willing to bet that future public opinion will look more favorably on a President who confronts the issue head on and resolves it for himself/herself and or any future Prezs or VPs.

I would almost guess that public opinion, if this issue is NOT resolved, will lend itself to 'requiring' every Presidential or VP candidate to jump through hoops in proving their status as NBC. BTW, this would be a total waste of time and resources and could be easily resolved.

Respectfully,

Originally posted by OldCurmudgeon
The real question is, and everyone seems to dodge it, "IF" President Obama WAS born in Hawaii then he could be considered a NBC by 'right of birth'.
But what if he was NOT???,

There is no evidence whatsoever to show he was born anywhere but in Hawaii, only silly conspiracy theories not based on any reality.

Even poor Orly taitz is going into meltdown at the moment as she realises she will lost every silly court case she attempts!

Originally posted by spoor

Originally posted by OldCurmudgeon
The real question is, and everyone seems to dodge it, "IF" President Obama WAS born in Hawaii then he could be considered a NBC by 'right of birth'.
But what if he was NOT???,

There is no evidence whatsoever to show he was born anywhere but in Hawaii, only silly conspiracy theories not based on any reality.

Even poor Orly taitz is going into meltdown at the moment as she realises she will lost every silly court case she attempts!

This still does not address the underage mother/foreign father issue that I have seen many argue about.

reply to post by OldCurmudgeon


[rolls eyes]

What if Reagan wasn't born in the US?

What a stupid question...

The ACTUAL fact is sir that the issue has been settled many many times because the law is CLEAR... if you are born in the US you are a natural born citizen...

Read up on Jus soli... that's the basis... it's not in any way controversial...

en.wikipedia.org...

The geographer Jared Diamond has calculated that if the application of jus soli since 1850 were abolished, 60% of Americans and 80% of Argentinians would lose their citizenship, and 25% of British and French.

Originally posted by reaxi0n

Originally posted by jam321
Obama all the way!!!!

Really, man?
Honest question, as a fellow service member....what intrigues you about Obama?

Do you enjoy that he continued us in Iraq 3 years longer than he said he would?

Do you like him cutting healthcare benefits for active duty and vets? What about the corporations? Why aren't their benefits getting cut? We always get the short end of the stick.


What entices you about all the lies he told us?

Do you enjoy that he's about to send our boys off to fight another war and die, just so we can spread our wonderful "democracy?"

These are honest questions because I have never met anyone from any branch - especially a Marine who supports Obama still.

edit on 3-1-12 by reaxi0n because: added a line

My own favorite was the never ending Gitmo story.


or?

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by anon72

 

The problem when you're arrogant (as in Obama's case) is that you constantly underestimate people. Intelligence is underestimated. Resources are underestimated. Abilities are underestimated.

To the validity of his birth certificate.

I've often looked at the whole contreversy with amusement. Now it's switched to skepticism.

The real thing for us to focus on now in the short time until Nov is how can we expose the fraud of the WH release of the BC.

Originally posted by captainnotsoobvious
reply to post by OldCurmudgeon

 

[rolls eyes]

What if Reagan wasn't born in the US?

What a stupid question...

The ACTUAL fact is sir that the issue has been settled many many times because the law is CLEAR... if you are born in the US you are a natural born citizen...

Read up on Jus soli... that's the basis... it's not in any way controversial...

en.wikipedia.org...

The geographer Jared Diamond has calculated that if the application of jus soli since 1850 were abolished, 60% of Americans and 80% of Argentinians would lose their citizenship, and 25% of British and French.

edit on 10-3-2012 by captainnotsoobvious because: (no reason given)

Laughs at eye rolling.... lol
And yes, I agree, you are correct IFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF, and again to the point, IF, IF, IF, IF, IF President Obama was born in Hawaii is the IF here... to this point, there is obviously 'probable cause' per investigative information to believe he may not have been.
And the decision has never been 'clear' by any stretch of the imagination, and will NEVER be until SCOTUS rules on it... so the debate is as to the place of Mr. Obama's birth... and this is quite questionable.
I agree too that the idiocy of the suit filed in your previous link is just that... idiocy and was thrown out on the idocy and lack of legal basis... but again, there is no clear cut decision as to date regarding even your point as there have been NO irrefutable legal proof presented regarding the actual birthplace of Barak Obama, our President. AND, regardless of all the boo hah about what is fair and what isn't, we all left the fifth grade play ground long ago and live in the real world where Law rules.... so where are all the missing documents, why is it so darn difficult to produce a copy of the original birthday certificate as the Hawiian authorities themselves have stated it is in fact 'there' in a bound book... I can go to the county of my birth here in the US, walk in and get an actual copy of the document and if necessary, get a local judge to produce a court document authenticating the original.
And if you're going to say, Mr. Obama should not have to do that, then I say, BS... although President, Barak Obama is afforded no more freedoms under the constitution of the US than I and in fact, his reluctance and insistence to not produce the proof it in itself makes him suspicious and conspicious to conspiracy theory. He should grow a pair and get this behind us.
Oops... almost forgot... and given the fact there are many very notable legal academics across the country, one of whom I mentioned earlier which stated that the law is not even conclusive and fact that someone born outside the US to two parents who are US citizens (and President Obama was not) is in fact considered to be 'natural born'.