Richard Dawkins: I can't be sure God does not exist

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
reply to post by reaxi0n

 

I hold a degree in physics thank you very much

Holy crap mr. 100% sure physicist, you hold the proof humanity has been waiting for?!

lay it on us!

reply to post by truthinfact


Actually many Americans have heard of him. A number of his books have appeared on the New York Times Best Seller List and I'm pretty sure he's even done a guest spot on The Simpsons. He's probably the most well-known scientist in the world with the possible exceptions of Hawking and Kaku.

Ultimately, because of the actual point of contention no one can be certain of anything.

It would appear that even the 'spiritual master' of Atheism must acknowledge that "logically" the 'claim of certainty' require faith either way you choose to frame your argument.

Sadly, this is probably much ado about nothing.

In the matter of what one chooses to believe, the minds of others are irrelevant. It is not a matter of 'convincing argumentation,' 'populist rhetoric,' or even 'high-minded devotion to notional intellectual honesty.' It is about being willing to establish one's level of existence within the framework of one's life. To deny or affirm a reality which extends beyond the rational is a personal decision, not a matter of social control..., or theatrical presentation.

This has always been Dawkins' position. This is nothing new. He has also stated that he cannot be 100% certain that Santa Claus does not exist.

reply to post by silent thunder


It's not a development or a change. He has always referred to himself as an 'agnostic atheist' i.e. absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. He doesn't believe the existence of any Gods is very likely, but he cannot say for certain there aren't any, no one can.

I'm not sure if this quote is from him but it explains his position exactly. "I cannot know for certain but I think God is very improbable, and I live my life on the assumption that he is not there."

This is not the big revelation some want it to be. A scientific mind knows that this negative hasn't been proven. We CANNOT know that God doesn't exist. The chances are slim to none that he exists (I'd put them about equal to the Flying Spaghetti Monster's existence) but there's a chance, still, and to deny that is just ignorance.

I am an agnostic atheist, too.

reply to post by silent thunder

Dawkins has long been what some might consider an "aggressive athiest," using his public position to argue heatedly and pointedly against religion.

Religion and the belief in a creator are different things. Religion is a man made thing where humans tell you how to live your lives using their rules.

You can believe in a creator without being part of a religion.

reply to post by silent thunder

Sorry...this post was intended for the OP.


I have never been a fan of Dawkins although I did read his books.
I don't think he is hedging his bets...just being honest.
But in a way we should admire him...
After all he is doing what we should all be doing.
He is confronting the madness that surrounds us.

I remember some time ago seeing him on television talking to an Imam.
He was treading a little warily...being careful with his words.
I think it was a carefully arranged meeting in Palestine...a little tense.
Anyway Dawkins went into a little preamble...talking quite honestly.
I think he brought up the question of religion and violence.
After five minutes or so Dawkins paused...waiting for a response.
And the Imam...who I must confess was a little unsavoury.
Looked at Dawkins with half closed eyes and says...
'Why you let your women dress like that?'

And therein lies the problem.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


we cannot know that the god measly humans create exists..... but can we know that "something" created the universe in all its splendor, size, ability, capacity, potential,... and the most intelligent thing known to man.... man is born within this creation?

agnosticm is the bisexuality of beliefs

Honestly if you want to play both fields go right ahead, but I am sure you aspire ultimately to one side when a gun is drawn to you

This just tells me that Dawkins is a reasonable man. No one can be certain that a god does not exist, just like we are 99.9% sure that the flying spaghetti monster is just a myth. You never know. It is theoretically possible that he exists just outside understood reality, adjusting the world with his noodly appendage.

Dawkins, like much of the scientific world, believes in evidence and logic as methods of determining reality. Of course you cannot be sure something exists or does not exist when there is no way to test for its existence. At the moment though, no evidence has come forth to prove that a god does exist, so that is why he offers only that .1 chance that a god may exist.

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
reply to post by reaxi0n

 

I hold a degree in physics thank you very much

Perhaps you could shed some light on how someone who is a degree-educated scientist can make a statement like yours, that you are 100% certain of god's existence?

Surely a scientist should recognise that a hypothesis can only be proven by the application of testing - so how have you come to the conclusion that god exists (with 100% certainty)?

Isn't fallibilism one of the underlying concepts of science?

Richard Dawkins is a voice of reason and critical thinking. He rages against blindly following corrupt and self serving churches and religious leaders.

He may be 100% sure that the god of the Old Testament is not god and that organized religion's ideals and Papal infallibilty fly in the face of good science. I am!

Is there a human spirit? Is there a spirit of planet Earth? Is there a spiritual collective consciousness? No one can say.

Originally posted by Jordan River
agnosticm is the bisexuality of beliefs

Honestly if you want to play both fields go right ahead, but I am sure you aspire ultimately to one side when a gun is drawn to you

This just proves you don't know what agnosticism is. Not a big surprise. Many people who use the word don't.

He has always said this. This isn't new. The only reason he's not willing to say he's 100% sure is because there is no way of completely disproving the existence of a god.

Hell, he says as much in "The God Delusion," which came out in 2006. This new smear campaign is just digging up old facts and presenting them as new.

Originally posted by ComeFindMe

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
reply to post by reaxi0n

 

I hold a degree in physics thank you very much

Perhaps you could shed some light on how someone who is a degree-educated scientist can make a statement like yours, that you are 100% certain of god's existence?

Surely a scientist should recognise that a hypothesis can only be proven by the application of testing - so how have you come to the conclusion that god exists (with 100% certainty)?

Isn't fallibilism one of the underlying concepts of science?

I'm pretty sure it's because he doesn't hold a degree in any science

All he is implying is that he isnt saying for certain whether a creator(s) exists or not. Nobody can.

He will tell you with all certainty that the god of Abraham doesnt exist though. That is for sure.

He will tell you any day that the supernatural is bs.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


South Park reference! Yeah, he was in South Park too. I do want to understand the mentality of things like that, I've spoken to Americans who don't know who Stephen Hawkings is, is that because they're not American they don't exist in their sphere of thought. Or is it just blind ignorance? I digress.

This doesn't change anything, he's just pointed out an obvious fact. HE can still express his belief that there is no good, still making him an atheiest. Regardless of that fact that he will never be able to prove that he doesn't exist.
Also, I think he's never told people God doesn't exist, he's encouraged debate into his existance. He's expressed his belief, but never told people that God doesn't exist, his books are just questions with his beliefs. His stance has not changed, he's just agreed with the fact that he can never be 100% sure of the existance of a creator.

reply to post by reaxi0n

I asked what degrees you hold. Simply "A degree" does not answer this. I would also like to know what university this 'degree' came from where faith trumps logic. And how does physics play into a 100% certainty of god, or the existence of god what so ever? Physicists deal with empirical data. If you held any degree in any science, you would know this. There is no room for faith in science, that's why they are separate. One uses logic, the other does not.

And I told you what degrees I hold. Those topics I told you are subsets of physics.

If you held any degree in any science, you would know this.

I do know this, I will show you all my college physics textbooks when I get home that were required for me to get my degree, not that you would understand if you had any science degree.

Many people with physics degrees (like myslef) know that god exists. You would know that too if you got your degree.

Here is a thread where I use my physics knowledge to debunk people like you:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by Jordan River
agnosticm is the bisexuality of beliefs

Honestly if you want to play both fields go right ahead, but I am sure you aspire ultimately to one side when a gun is drawn to you

This just proves you don't know what agnosticism is. Not a big surprise. Many people who use the word don't.

You can dazzle and beautify words all you want, its not going to change anything