Hello Mr. president, Abortion Is Murder! Life Begins At Fertilization! That's A Fact [snip]!

Originally posted by WinnieDaWho
And you Americans are still wondering what are all the Bull**** happening in your country, go ahead support abortion, your country is all fuc*** up anyway already, and that even came from your own words.

Are you from Singapore? Abortion is legal there up to 24 weeks.

reply to post by Gorman91

You cannot say it's not a human because it has no brain, for the brain of a human is virtually not special until a ways after it is born. Furthermore it is a fact that not all brains of all ages are the same, so having a brain is not an entry right to being a human person, for children do not have adult brains.

We have already been over this, your logic is flawed and subjective. The fact that brain develops further is of no consequence if we choose some point of brain development as an abortion limit. Furthermore, you cannot deduce ethical questions purely from logic.

Originally posted by Oaktree
If I were to drink a bottle of Jack, then go joyriding, blow a red light and kill a pregnant mother, I would be facing 2 vehicular manslaughter charges, right?

Sell some bad "junk" to a pregnant fiend and she dies?
Double homicide.

Yet, mommy chooses to end that same life, it's her right.

Is it or isn't it a life?

Indeed, it is inconsistent. Solution? Repeal fetal homicide laws (or make them applicable only after the fetus passes the limit of abortion).

But this is not always the case, in about half of US states fetal homicide laws either do not apply, or apply only for late-term foetii.

People who are pro-life even in cases of incest or rape are at least consistent in their thinking, even tough I dont agree with them. But I cannot understand those who are pro-life, except of incest and rape. Its completely inconsistent and hypocritical. Is the rape embryo somehow different or responsible? What it indicates to me:
We favor the embryo because it's a tool we can use to punish women who choose to have sex. Of course if the woman was forced to have sex, i.e. she didn't enjoy the sex, the embryo is expendable, even tough its the same, equally defenseless and innocent human.

If you allow abortion in such case, you acknowledge the embryo is something less than a normal person (since you cannot kill normal person if its innocent and does not threaten your life, even if its a rape child).
If its not a person, it must be a thing.

reply to post by beezzer


the woman or young girl should not have to suffer for something that isn't their fault either (in the case of rape or incest)

reply to post by Stormdancer777


I knew this would come up eventually...sigh

To the OP cuz I don't have to read the rest of these posts to see the war.


If it begins at fertilization or a few months in once everything is fully formed or if it begins at 5 months when the now-a-baby can live outside the womb without dying, it doesn't matter. It's all opinion. To each their own.

People need to get outta other people's bedrooms, businesses and lives and just mind their own opinions and beliefs and values. Really.

Wow, talk about a war...I hear alot of different arguments here. Some make sense, others not so much. Science is not infallible, I can think of many times where science "proved" something only to have it disproved with "newer, better" technology. Just the fact that there is not a "standard" answer to when life begins should tell us exactly how little we know. I personally do not believe in abortions but I think that in certain situations it is definately the right decision. It's an individual choice that should only concern the involved parties. I'm sitting here reading very impassioned opinions about both sides, only to hear people then say they don't care what someone else does when it's obvious that you do care, otherwise why bother defending your views so ardently.

Unless you are the women whose body contains the embryo it really is none of your business.

reply to post by DivineFem

Science is not infallible, I can think of many times where science "proved" something only to have it disproved with "newer, better" technology. Just the fact that there is not a "standard" answer to when life begins should tell us exactly how little we know.

Its not really a fault of science, we know a lot about human prenatal development, enough to guide us in this debate. The issue is with ethics, people simply do not agree which one of the prenatal development points described by science should be considered a limit for abortion. Thats not something science and logic alone can explain.

reply to post by Maslo




exactly my point but people keep putting up the science arguement. we know more than we did in the past but the crappy way the world is going, we are by no means experts on everything, though many of us ( occasionally even myself) seem to think so. people will make the choices that are right for them.

Originally posted by newcovenant

Originally posted by The Old American

Originally posted by windword
reproductive rights!

They're not reproducing if they're aborting.

I don't support the murder of children. That being said, I feel I don't have much of a say in it, already being a parent and not in a position to have another. But if women would call it what it is, murder of a human being, instead of sugar coating it with flowery terms like "reproductive rights", "abortion", "pregnancy termination", maybe fewer murders would be committed.

/TOA

Again...is WAR not murder of a human being? In fact hundreds of thousands of them?

Absolutely it's murder. What does that have to do with what I said? If you think I support war, you have never read my posts.

It's also murder to end the life of someone via the death penalty. Yet that's OK in the eyes of the law. It's kinda sickeningly funny how the left decries the death penalty, yet gleefully supports the murder of infants. To them, criminals have rights, women have rights, but children...meh.

/TOA

reply to post by Maslo


And I've said the same to you.

What you are doing is subjective, therefore, I don't care.

reply to post by Maslo

I m talking about the presence of mind, not consciousness in its normal sense.

So you are making up your own words and definitions

I'm for protecting human life...not certain groups that YOU decide are worth protecting...all human life.

I love this topic. It really shines a light on the silliness of the anti-government conservatives.

"Keep big government out of my life! Liberty! Freedom! Except for this! Now please insert big government into a woman's body post haste! My invisible sky daddy commands it!"

The hypocrisy is ludicorus.

Originally posted by spiritualzombie

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
I'm willing to debate anyone in the debate forums on when the biological life of a human being begins.

I say conception...you can choose your position.

I have asked this in multiple abortion threads over the years...no one has accepted...I wonder why???

Irrelevant. I accept it is death of life. And a woman's right to choose. You really think a woman makes this choice out of some belief that there is not a living thing growing in her? You must try to be more sensitive and less narrow minded.

edit on 27-1-2012 by spiritualzombie because: (no reason given)

Yes...of course it is irrelevant...because you know it's true and you can't refute it.

So why not say that you support the killing of humans (read murder)...in most cases just to make a women's life "easier"???

Originally posted by jtap66
I love this topic. It really shines a light on the silliness of the anti-government conservatives.

"Keep big government out of my life! Liberty! Freedom! Except for this! Now please insert big government into a woman's body post haste! My invisible sky daddy commands it!"

The hypocrisy is ludicorus.

Big government made the killing of unborn babies legal.

Try again.

reply to post by Maslo

Irrelevant to me too. I do not value other people just because they are biologically alive and have certain order of nucleotides in their DNA.

It's not irrelevant...it's fact...which is why you won't challenge it.

Great...YOU do not value our youngest humans. Who else don't you value that you think we should kill off? Mentally retarded? Poor? Old?

reply to post by Maslo

Sometimes, abortion is the most responsible choice.

That is funny.

Dumping off your responsibility is never the most responsible choice.

I love abortion threads, because people show just how illogical they are willing to go in order to justify the murder of babies.

reply to post by Gorman91


I agree. All value statements are subjective.
But I hope by "I dont care" you mean "dont try to ban abortion for those who hold different subjetive opinion than I hold".

reply to post by OutKast Searcher

So you are making up your own words and definitions

Nope, I did not make up the word "mind".

I'm for protecting human life...not certain groups that YOU decide are worth protecting...all human life.

This kind of thinking is truly absurd and alien to me.

It's not irrelevant...it's fact...which is why you won't challenge it.

No, I wont challenge it because it is also my opinion that human life in the biological sense begins at conception. I have even stated this at the page 2 of this thread.

So why not say that you support the killing of humans (read murder)...in most cases just to make a women's life "easier"???

I dont know about spiritualzombie, but I do support killing of humans before 5th month. Nothing wrong with that.
Especially if it benefits actual persons with mind, such as women or ill people with ESC therapy.

Great...YOU do not value our youngest humans. Who else don't you value that you think we should kill off? Mentally retarded? Poor? Old?

Braindead people. They also do not contain any mind, the source of our value.