I cried watching this. Americans and NATO bombing babies, Every human much watch. Spread It!

Originally posted by Praetorius
reply to post by seiva7

 

When is what? War the only right thing to do?

Well, in the eyes of this world - which I don't personally see through, but I live here so I recognize it - when one is undeniably under assault and actual self-defense becomes paramount.

Right? Of course. Good? By no means. War is ugly and suffering is inevitable, for all parties.

I am asking you when was the war "the right thing to do" in your opinion, which war?

This is all fine and dandy, feeding the bleeding hearts the images of horror and injured kiddies to emotive music, all presented in a grandiose, skewed fashion.

But what if you replace those on the gurnies with Islamists strapped with C4? Or perhaps clarified that many of these targets were terrorists who they themselves would have taken many more innocent lives had they'd been allowed to blown themselves up in crowded marketplaces for their fictitious deities?

War is not a nice thing, to be sure. But keep in mind that it's kids like these that are brainwashed to carry out atrocities of their own.

You cannot hold hands and sing Kum Ba Yah and hope tyranny and extremism will go away. You have to be a circuit-breaker and destroy the cycle of 'procreation > indoctrination > annihilation' by removing those that purvey the diseased thinking that often accompanies warped deity worship.

The US, NATO etc aren't the good guys per se. But they're the far lesser evil of what's possible if you let extremist ideology reign.

reply to post by v1rtu0s0
The royal bloodline elite leaders of this fallen world,their endless desire for more dominance and power, their perpetual obsession with greed,while suffering from megalomania,are dragging us all down with them into a bottomless abyss of fear and hate.We have been turned into their taxable sheep, their expendable commodoties and their cannon fodder,as our empathy,our compassion and our love for eachother is ravaged and torn asunder...

reply to post by seiva7
I will leave it primarily to the hypothetical I already gave, but I'm willing to give one highly-unpopular example, just for fun ( ) - the Iraq insurgency.

The US invaded their country on the basis of multiple trumped up charges, overthrew their government, wrecked their infrastructure, effectively allowed the looting and destruction of their heritage, and then occupied their country and - supposed good intentions aside - enabled an ongoing string of atrocities and abuses.

The swelling insurgent response was entirely justified, especially after facts such as Abu Ghraib and various other unpleasantries came to light.

I'd like to also give the example of the American Revolutionary War, but in all fairness - while I do consider it justified - the colonists did also egg the british on to a certain degree. Regardless, history is rife with plenty of examples of justified aggression against abusers and invaders. Sadly, we of late tend to be all too often on the wrong side of such judgements.

reply to post by Sablicious
That's a cute argument.

Do a little research and give us some body counts, then we'll decide.

EDIT:
In fact, before you even get there, I'll add some more since your post is simply pissing me off with its ignorance.

As regards suicide bombers, are you aware that since about 1980, pretty much 100% of suicide bombings are political in nature, and have to do with driving occupiers off contested land, as compared to being religious in nature? And I'd have to check, but I believe the majority are committed by non-muslims, with the primary group being the Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka.

As far as your statements on "extremist ideology", what on earth would you consider patriotism and "amercian exceptionalism" rhetoric used to whip our masses here at home up into a frenzy to allow our government to rack up kill counts in the millions over the last few decades? How's that for extremist? "We're good, and we're right, so we're going to kill so many more of them than they could hope to kill of us, and this will make them less likely to want to kill us!"

Retarded crap...

Originally posted by Sablicious
This is all fine and dandy,

No, it's not.

Originally posted by Sablicious
feeding the bleeding hearts the images of horror

What does bleeding heart mean? Someone who has emotions and empathy for their fellow human beings? If so you must be refering to a healthy, intelligent, compassionate, and highly functioning member of society.

Originally posted by Sablicious
kiddies

I must point out that you used the term "kiddies" as a pejorative. It makes them sound like they are mischevious troublesome kids, that got what they deserve.

Originally posted by Sablicious
But what if you replace those on the gurnies with Islamists strapped with C4?

What if a purple unicorn appears out of thin air? What if aliens reptoids land on the white house lawn and start dancing to techno? What if, what if, what if.......

Hey, what if nothing! What if, you stop saying "WHAT IF" as an answer to an uncomfortable subject?

Originally posted by Sablicious
Or perhaps clarified that many of these targets were terrorists who they themselves would have taken many more innocent lives had they'd been allowed to blown themselves up in crowded marketplaces for their fictitious deities?

Those kids are terrorist? What's a terrorist anyways? It seems there are so many of them, how does one define a terrorist? Someone who defends their family?

Originally posted by Sablicious
War is not a nice thing, to be sure. But keep in mind that it's kids like these that are brainwashed to carry out atrocities of their own.

Indeed, this is the common reply almost everyone uses to justify these atrocities.

War is bad, so (Insert justification here). It's easy, works everytime.

Originally posted by Sablicious
You cannot hold hands and sing Kum Ba Yah and hope tyranny and extremism will go away. You have to be a circuit-breaker and destroy the cycle of 'procreation > indoctrination > annihilation' by removing those that purvey the diseased thinking that often accompanies warped deity worship.

I agree.

Originally posted by Sablicious
The US, NATO etc aren't the good guys per se. But they're the far lesser evil of what's possible if you let extremist ideology reign.

Unfortunately the lesser of two evils is still evil. It's like saying you're going to die by lethal injection instead of by firing squad.

all of you be quiet. How dare you question the US or NATO. Don't you know such actions are illegal under NDAA and will result in permanent detention in GITMO?

Originally posted by randomguy0083
all of you be quiet. How dare you question the US or NATO. Don't you know such actions are illegal under NDAA and will result in permanent detention in GITMO?

Thats right,its not socially acceptable to go against the governments war machine and think about this sad and sickening fact.Hundreds,perhaps thousands of soldiers during WW-1 who refused to "go over the top" or who were too shell shocked to kill anymore,were literally taken behind the front lines and shot or hanged...What an evil world we live in...

Originally posted by randomguy0083
all of you be quiet. How dare you question the US or NATO. Don't you know such actions are illegal under NDAA and will result in permanent detention in GITMO?

No need to question anything. We already know what time it is. After it is all said and done, who would you rather be identified with?

World Leaders: who allowed and in some cases arranged for this to happen?
Military Men: who carried this out?
OrdinaryPeople who rose up against the injustice and exposed the lies?
Other people who turned a blind eye and went back to sleep?
Or people who ran around censoring the truth from our eyes and ears?

There are two categories I left out...

Originally posted by Praetorius
are you aware that since about 1980, pretty much 100% of suicide bombings are political in nature, and have to do with driving occupiers off contested land, as compared to being religious in nature? And I'd have to check, but I believe the majority are committed by non-muslims, with the primary group being the Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka.

The Tamils may have come up with going against every fibre of humanity through brainwashing (i.e., martyrdom), but the Islamists made it an art form. Credit where credit is due, please.

Also, I think you'll find they scream "Allahu Akbar" before pulling the pin. Not the name of the particular piece of desert wasteland they're prematurely ascending to heaven to collect their 72 virgin / 28 pearly Dancing Boy reward for.

As far as your statements on "extremist ideology", what on earth would you consider patriotism and "amercian exceptionalism" rhetoric used to whip our masses here at home up into a frenzy to allow our government to rack up kill counts in the millions over the last few decades?

Extremist Christianity is a problem too. All fictitious belief systems / systems of control are. However, Christianity / Catholicism / Judaism¹ / Buddhism / Taoism et al do not condone the lapidation or adulteresses or drawing and quartering of homosexuals. These other forms of belief have moved on (somewhat) from this kind on sub-animalistic barbarism and are no longer bent on eradicating any semblance of ideology that does not lockstep conform with its own deluded view on things.


¹Yeah, I know the Jews used to stone too. But so did Christians. It's about where the respective faiths are at here and now.

Kill for gain or shoot to maim,
But we don't need a reason...
The golden goose is on the loose,
And never out of season...

Some blackened pride still burns inside,
This shell of bloody treason...
Here's my gun for a barrel of fun,
For the love of living death...

The killers breed,or the demon's seed,
The glamour,the fortune,the pain...
Go to war again,blood is freedom's stain,
Don't you pray for my soul anymore...

2 minutes to midnight,
The hands that threaten doom...
2 minutes to midnight,
To kill the unborn in the womb...

The blind men shout let the creatures out,
We'll show the unbelievers...
Napalm screams and human flames,
For a prime time Belsen feast...
As the reasons for the carnage cut their meat and lick the gravy,
We oil the jaws of the war machine and feed it with our babies...

The body bags and little rags of children torn in two,
And the jellied brains of those who remain to put the finger right on you...
As the madmen play on words and make us all dance to their song,
To the tune of starving millions,to make a better kind of gun...

2 minutes to midnight,
The hands that threaten doom...
2 minutes to midnight,
To kill the unborn in the womb...

Midnight,midnight,
Its all night...

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


I wouldn't call this anti-American propaganda as much as reality. The propaganda is the stuff people see on the nightly news, where wars are propped up and sometimes even glorified, and people are told by the corporate media puppets that everything is just fine and dandy thanks to the United States dropping some bombs and helping save those people.

Do you see videos of the civilians killed/injured on the nightly news? Do you see the statistics about how many innocent people were killed? Do you see the videos and interviews with the crying family members of the people who were blown to bits by a bomb?

Nope, you just see the videos of people cheering in the streets while Americans revel in their own arrogance and sense of moral superiority. This is not the propaganda, this is reality.

reply to post by predator0187


After watching this, I am so ashamed. I'm so sorry. Our government must not be human. I can hardly buy that the people that order this stuff is of the same race as myself. Why so evil? Not sure how they sleep at night.

I wish it would stop. We don't need to do this to each other. The point it seems is a complete illusion.

Originally posted by TupacShakur
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

 

Nope, you just see the videos of people cheering in the streets while Americans revel in their own arrogance and sense of moral superiority. This is not the propaganda, this is reality.

Generalize much?
What country do you live in? A Nation that is part of NATO? You are just as guilty.

Originally posted by n00bUK
reply to post by predator0187

 

Every single American citizen who didnt oppose the war should be ashamed of their selves for letting this happen. Your country is hated by half the world because you are too lazy to stand up and take on your Government. The people in America who agree with these atrocities dictate how people should live their lives, not understanding the implications of war and the loss of civilian life - all because their sat at home in their comfortable house, driving their comfortable car in their comfortable clothes, they think they are some how morally superior and other countries are somehow inferior because they do not have this life which Americans have.

I havent got to say anything about the video other than i hope when you look at things like this your belly has butterfly's and you feel some sort of guilt, cowards.

I see... And it's OK if these folks sit out in the desert, plan to kill people with bombs, ieds and such, kill their women who either don't do what they have been ordered to do or try to do something on their own... Only to have the head clown in charge of the family decide that it's all wrong, his will has been beaten on by a trying to think woman, so she either ends up dead, thoroughly disabled, or something worse so that the Male can maintain his masculinity.

Same kind of crap when they are attacking and/or killing others who aren't supposedly subject to the crappy thing they call Shariah. Unfortunately, often, when you start a fight with someone, you have to be prepared to get your butt kicked. If you do not like the consequences, maybe you shouldn't involve yourself in situations where those old consequences and paybacks can happen.

reply to post by predator0187


wow. when i saw the footage of the girl running from the clouds rolling in the city, i remembered the 9/11 scenes. ironic? no. two wrongs don't make a right. however, let's not forget it's a 630 a.d culture over there with cell phones and machetes. their sons and daughters are taught to hate infidels ( don't make me post all the pics and vids of beheaded Christians). point being, we should raise our next generation to hate the "moral superiority", mostly weilded by corrupt, bloated governments and elect officials to voice that concern! in defense, i doubt the operator of a drone aims for schools, unless of course, the operator is a drone himself; one without a family or a conscience and loves his pension and kid-porn. in closing, this video did get to me. no words are needed when there is a tiny, pale body of a child on the table; only action.

All I would like to say right now is I think it is a good time to watch the Vietnam series on HistoryHD part 2/6 starts Monday night. Never before seen footage as it was told by those who experienced it. Part one was very dramatic.

I managed to find a link for the preview.
Preview

I think everyone should watch this. We need a refresher course on the things that have been done in the past. Watch this and recognize it for what it is. Perpetual, never ending.

reply to post by BLKMJK


I didn't say all Americans. Yes, I live in America. I guess I am to blame too, because I can totally just walk into the NATO headquarters one day, and be like "Yo, stop this s***!", right? Maybe I could give them a phone call or send them an e-mail, if I did that, things surely would all be better.

At the risk of being kicked off of ATS... If you do not like what America is doing to countries that have attacked us, or done something else that is against what we stand for, then you have a couple of options, as I see it.

1. Get out of America. Move to some other place where what the government is doing for and/or to its people isn't quite so repelling to your sense of moral indignity.

2. Sit in front of your monitor with your nervous little fingers on the keyboard just waiting for something to be posted that allows you to publish an opinion regarding the Nazi like ways of the country of your birth... And cry, and wienie, and cry.. etc.etc. etc.

3. Get off your butt and do something in a positive and active manner to work toward those changes you want to see.

All the crybabying on this thread doesn't change one thing in the greater reality of where we are... Do something useful and work for change.