Abortion a bigger problem than joblessness, says Catholic Church. Bishop warns of UNESCO plan to "m

Bishop warns of UNESCO plan to "make half the world population homosexual"
Cardinal Archbishop Antonio Rouco Varela used an open-air gathering in Madrid's Plaza Colón on Friday to attack the policies of the previous Socialist Party government, calling for a repeal of legislation that provides for abortion on demand, as well as same-sex marriage.

i know i shouldn't be surprised by this, but i always am. i'm basically pro-abortion based solely on the fact that i don't give myself enough credit as a human to tell other humans what they should and shouldn't do with their lives.
obviously many give themselves enough credit to do so.
i also believe that making abortion illegal means there would need to be a penalty for those that have one. shall we give a woman 5 years in prison per abortion?

"The family is under attack in Spain," said the archbishop, who is also the chairman of the Spanish Bishops Conference, insisting that abortion and euthanasia in Europe was a deeper crisis than the economy or politics.

yet, wouldn't one be tied to the other? i'd assume that the worse the economy is, the higher rate of abortion there would be. basically people wondering how they could raise a family without a decent income. tough to feed a family without money.

The Spanish Catholic Church is also concerned about homosexuality. During his Boxing Day sermon, the Bishop of Córdoba, Demetrio Fernández, said there was a conspiracy by the United Nations. "The Minister for Family of the Papal Government, Cardinal Antonelli, told me a few days ago in Zaragoza that UNESCO has a program for the next 20 years to make half the world population homosexual. To do this they have distinct programs, and will continue to implant the ideology that is already present in our schools."

i'm not at all a fan of most of what the un does and stands for, but i'm not sure what programs he's talking about. can anyone clue me in?
or, is he basically saying that due to abortion people will genetically become gay, almost like evolution will turn them gay?

source

the catholic church is spiraling into irrelevance.

they know it but wont look at it.

they are archaic and backwards and have less and less legitimacy everyday.

good riddance to bad habits. . .


really, while i understand the logic behind being anti-abortion, i completely disagree.

humanity has already far exceeded the carrying-capacity of the earth to support us as a species with devastating impacts on our species well-being as well as the well being of a large number of other species.

you would think that behaving in such a manner would be a 'big problem' to the church but like i said the church is archaic and irrelevant and cant see beyond its own simple mindedness.

reply to post by rubbertramp


This has much to do with their decreasing numbers of attendees....who contribute MONEY to the Church.Abortion is a Sin because it distorts the system of payees who feed into the system.
That's what is behind a lot of this...
Why do you think that we are issued a Social Security number at Birth ?
Not to receive benefits but in order to pay into the system.

The Church is no different and they are not happy that people are beginning to see the light of how they've been scammed into subscribing to the payee system that is dictated upon us OR we are deemed to be Sinners !

I recently received a Christmas card from my local Catholic Church....in reading between the lines.....it's very revealing as to their need for more attendance...for they are marketing to the masses in order to attract more Paying customers....

Sad.....but the gig is up !

Because of the economy people are less inclined to "settle down" and get married.....and start a family because they are looking at the costs of taking on such endeavors.
And meanwhile they are trying to feed themselves !

The system is turning around and now biting the Church in the proverbial A$$ !
Payback is a Bitch sometimes !

reply to post by Animal


i agree to a point, but an organization with such a large following makes them a bit more than 'irrellevant.'
there is power in numbers.

Originally posted by rubbertramp
reply to post by Animal

 

i agree to a point, but an organization with such a large following makes them a bit more than 'irrellevant.'
there is power in numbers.

i did not say they are irrelevant. i said they are spiraling into irrelevance.

Originally posted by nh_ee
reply to post by rubbertramp

 

This has much to do with their decreasing numbers of attendees....who contribute MONEY to the Church.Abortion is a Sin because it distorts the system of payees who feed into the system.
That's what is behind a lot of this...
Why do you think that we are issued a Social Security number at Birth ?
Not to receive benefits but in order to pay into the system.

The Church is no different and they are not happy that people are beginning to see the light of how they've been scammed into subscribing to the payee system that is dictated upon us OR we are deemed to be Sinners !

I recently received a Christmas card from my local Catholic Church....in reading between the lines.....it's very revealing as to their need for more attendance...for they are marketing to the masses in order to attract more Paying customers....

Sad.....but the gig is up !

Because of the economy people are less inclined to "settle down" and get married.....and start a family because they are looking at the costs of taking on such endeavors.
And meanwhile they are trying to feed themselves !

The system is turning around and now biting the Church in the proverbial A$$ !
Payback is a Bitch sometimes !

Now I myself am not a big fan of the church..As a matter of fact I don't go to any of them, ever. But I doubt very much that they are only upset with abortion due to the fact that its disrupting their income lol thats almost funny just to type out. Were you serious when u wrote that?

Anyways like I said I'm not an advocate for the church whatsoever and I don't believe in abortions at all. I would never tell anyone they can't get one, or make it illegal but I probably wouldn't like that person very much on a personal level after it.

In my opinion abortion is wrong in all but a very few exceptions (risk of death to the mother or child from pregnancy etc.) So having said that, is my belief that abortion is wrong (as a non-church member) disrupting my income somehow?

It's possible that some people (in or out of the church) just don't agree with abortions.
On another note, the church looks at abortion the same way it looks at murder. Life is Life so to speak.
And murder has always been a sin in their eyes. Or was that because it disrupts their income flow?

Please don't respond to that with oh yeah well well they had the crusades (murder on mass scale). Times and beliefs were different then and unless they plan on calling their followers to arms any time soon for another march in gods name I will look at it as a piece of history and not define their entire existence by it.

reply to post by Animal


ah, so you did, i apologize for misquoting you, but it makes me wonder what your opinion is.
when did the spiral begin, and when will it end with them being irrelevent?

Abortion a bigger problem than joblessness? I think so. I'd rather be unemployed than dead, and I'd certainly rather be unemployed than be the one who put an innocent person to death.

1) I don't see a conspiracy here, so this might be a better fit for the Religion and Faith forum.

2) To state that the policy of religious people that are against abortion is motivated by an attempt to bolster the ranks and therefor the coffers is ridiculous and does a disservice to any legitimate arguments you have against organized religion.

There are clear Biblical problems with abortion. It is very easy to trace where anti-abortion religious people get their rationale from. A little research would go a long way.


Eric

If someone was about to murder someone, I guess that's okay too. I mean, I don't feel qualified to tell someone not to kill another. What a bunch of rot.

Abortion is killing of a living organism and specifically, a living human organism. To say that it isn't human is disingenuous to that unborn child. In an abortion, you are killing it because of what it will become, not what it is and the duplicity of that is also disingenuous. Because in the case of humans, we are human from the time of conception. If it wouldn't turn out human, there would be no reason to abort it, now would there?

Where you have it right, that you can't tell someone when to kill, is when that person (woman) becomes pregnant. There are so many very effective ways to avoid being pregnant, that there is little excuse for ending up pregnant without having set out do do it from the beginning.

Once the human life has begun, it deserves all the rights any other human has, especially the right to a life...what ever form that may turn out being. Who knows, out of all those MILLIONS of people who have been aborted/murdered, how many would have been people with genuine answers to the problems that plague our world? We will never know...they were murdered.

Originally posted by rubbertramp
reply to post by Animal

 

ah, so you did, i apologize for misquoting you, but it makes me wonder what your opinion is.
when did the spiral begin, and when will it end with them being irrelevent?

i think the spiral has been in process for at least a decade. the most pivotal 'moment' in the spiral was the revelations regarding wide spread child molestation by church clergy. beyond the molestation issue the general 'out-of-touch' nature of the church regarding present day culture is also contributing - female clergy, gay rights, etc also are contributing. i think people are moving away from organized religion more and more these days as science, mysticism and faith all begin to merge. what filled the spiritual need of the people 2000 years ago no longer fits in today's world and the church has been generally unwilling to evolve along with humanity. this imho will cause the churches irrelevance.

Originally posted by Zedta
If someone was about to murder someone, I guess that's okay too. I mean, I don't feel qualified to tell someone not to kill another. What a bunch of rot.

your opinion is noted and i am not going to tell you it is wrong. i fully believe we all need to develop our own ethic and live by it.

i will say, however, that the exponential growth of the human population is already killing more people than abortion (if one is to regard abortion as killing, which i do not).

so how do you balance further contributions to human death through starvation and disease with the banning of abortion?

how do you balance the churches sanction of war (sanction by not opposing war)?

what i see as a 'bunch of rot' is the failure of the church to be fully consistent with the 'value of all human life'.

reply to post by Animal

You ask about "balancing" things with the banning of abortion and the "sanction of war." Perhaps I may be able to suggest a line of thinking for you.

Of course, if you don't believe an unborn is a human life then it's all an academic exercise. By that I mean if I was able to answer convincingly all the questions in your post, it still wouldn't change your mind. Nothing would, because you believe that an abortion does not cause the loss of life. It does no good to tell you that the majority of human thinking throughout history has held that it is a life, nor that children are viable months before they are born, nor that all their body systems are in place with their own DNA before birth, nor any of the other things you've already heard.

But here's a line of thinking for you to explore if you feel it's worth your time. Abortion is a direct action to effect the death of an innocent person. Overcrowding may lead to death eventually, but it can be prevented by governmental policies. (Oh, it's not exponential anymore, it's flattening out) By the way, you want the Church to value all life, but you want to define what life is?

And if you think the Church is not opposed to war, there is a wonderful world of Church documents waiting for you to explore. Popes and Church leaders have prevented and shortened wars through diplomatic channels (which is about the only thing they can do.)

Originally posted by rubbertramp

Bishop warns of UNESCO plan to "make half the world population homosexual"
Cardinal Archbishop Antonio Rouco Varela used an open-air gathering in Madrid's Plaza Colón on Friday to attack the policies of the previous Socialist Party government, calling for a repeal of legislation that provides for abortion on demand, as well as same-sex marriage.

i know i shouldn't be surprised by this, but i always am. i'm basically pro-abortion based solely on the fact that i don't give myself enough credit as a human to tell other humans what they should and shouldn't do with their lives.
obviously many give themselves enough credit to do so.
i also believe that making abortion illegal means there would need to be a penalty for those that have one. shall we give a woman 5 years in prison per abortion?

"The family is under attack in Spain," said the archbishop, who is also the chairman of the Spanish Bishops Conference, insisting that abortion and euthanasia in Europe was a deeper crisis than the economy or politics.

yet, wouldn't one be tied to the other? i'd assume that the worse the economy is, the higher rate of abortion there would be. basically people wondering how they could raise a family without a decent income. tough to feed a family without money.

The Spanish Catholic Church is also concerned about homosexuality. During his Boxing Day sermon, the Bishop of Córdoba, Demetrio Fernández, said there was a conspiracy by the United Nations. "The Minister for Family of the Papal Government, Cardinal Antonelli, told me a few days ago in Zaragoza that UNESCO has a program for the next 20 years to make half the world population homosexual. To do this they have distinct programs, and will continue to implant the ideology that is already present in our schools."

i'm not at all a fan of most of what the un does and stands for, but i'm not sure what programs he's talking about. can anyone clue me in?
or, is he basically saying that due to abortion people will genetically become gay, almost like evolution will turn them gay?

source

Oh Dear Lord let's hope the catholics never take the WH.
next....

reply to post by ldyserenity

Uh, JFK was Catholic.

Originally posted by charles1952
reply to post by Animal

 

...because you believe that an abortion does not cause the loss of life...

Not true, I don't view the issue in such simple black and white terms.

[quote]
It does no good to tell you that the majority of human thinking throughout history has held that it is a life...

You mean an unborn child?

...nor that children are viable months before they are born, nor that all their body systems are in place with their own DNA before birth, nor any of the other things you've already heard...

True, but mostly irrelevant to abortion as there are limits that are imposed on 'when' the abortion can be performed.

But here's a line of thinking for you to explore if you feel it's worth your time. Abortion is a direct action to effect the death of an innocent person.

I do not believe this, nor will I.

Overcrowding may lead to death eventually, but it can be prevented by governmental policies. (Oh, it's not exponential anymore, it's flattening out)

The human population is still far beyond the carrying capacity of the planet to support us and many of the other life forms on the planet. Damage done.

By the way, you want the Church to value all life, but you want to define what life is?

I was merely pointing out the flaw in the churches argument, not making a statement of my beliefs.

And if you think the Church is not opposed to war, there is a wonderful world of Church documents waiting for you to explore. Popes and Church leaders have prevented and shortened wars through diplomatic channels (which is about the only thing they can do.)

I did not hear the church make any statements on war in my life time (iraq/iraq/afghanistan...)

=)

I really don't care, there are too many people around as it is. We need SOME way to control the human population.

Originally posted by charles1952
reply to post by ldyserenity

 

Uh, JFK was Catholic.

No I meant actual Bishops/Pope etc...I do know JFK was Catholic, but he wasn't a Bishop.

reply to post by rubbertramp


As long as the half that turns homosexual is the female half, but then that would end the abortion problem altogether wouldn't it?

I'm reminded of a certain South Park episode... alright everyone, back to the pile.

The Catholic church, and indeed religion in general, seems obsessed with controlling sex and, in particular, limiting a woman's sexual rights. Shall we also go back to when a man could sell his daughter into slavery as it says in Deuteronomy? What is a Middle Age organization like the Catholic Church preaching from a barbaric text like the Bible even doing in existence today?

Over population a bigger problem then Abortion.

Some body please save me from self-righteous insanity.