How SOPA (as written) might kill ATS and free speech online (UPDATED)

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Yeah but I don't think there are enough radicals(left or right) to put anything more than a moderate dent in the machine of tyranny. The road to tyranny seems well planned down to minute details, so it will take a much larger portion of the population to get informed and upset, to really make a difference.

I can neither speak nor act for anyone else, only myself. If other folks are content to take the coffle, then they get what they have coming to them, and I'll not shed the first tear over them.

If they are unwilling to fight and rage, to do what has to be done and throw wrenches where they need to be thrown, Then as has been said before, may their chains weigh lightly on their shoulders, and may history forget that they ever were my countrymen.

On the other hand china and iran are known to be anti-democracy so it is hardely a suprise for them!

I'm "anti-democracy" as well. I am "pro-freedom", which is absolutely anathema to democracy. There is a reason that most socialistic dictatorships had the word "democracy" in their official titles. Being "anti-democracy" is not the problem inherent in either China or Iran (or North Korea, or Cuba, or Zimbabwe, etc., etc., ...)

Let's worry about taking down what we can agree upon, and we can get back to haggling over niceties like the finer points of democracy afterwards.

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis

I share your concern (and/or fear) but, I am feeling just a little shell shocked lately...realizing that my feelings on all this are hardly unique, I gotta say: I'm not sure I have much faith in the whole write your congressman approach

I don't have any faith in that approach either, but I've done it all the same. I fully expect them to ignore the dissenting clamor just as they have in so many other decisions taken of late. Their reaction to the voice of dissent doesn't obviate the need for it, though.

I'm considering it the "shot across the bow". When they ignore it, they can't say they weren't warned. After that, what comes, comes. That's why I work for the best, and prepare for the worst. Either way it goes, I'll be ready and able to meet the challenges. If anyone else doesn't want to deal with it, just stay home and crank the TV up louder.

Originally posted by Invariance
reply to post by Observor

 

well, give me an American postal code and state and I will... I can't provide the information they're asking me for...

How does 95035 and California sound? Its a place called Milpitas, in Santa Clara County (San Francisco Bay Area) where I lived a few years ago.

And just my opinion: America has been the guard dog of the world for far too long.

Who is the master of this dog?

I can imagine a worse scenerio. It is as simple as this: Say that there are things mentioned on a site that the PTBs don't like. All they have to do is embed subtly embed copyrighted material in a post, comment or video, which will "somehow" get the attention of the copyright holder, who may then naturally initiate the sanctioning process against "offensive" sites. Don't think they would resort to such tactics? I, myself, wouldn't put it past them.

reply to post by nenothtu

I fully expect them to ignore the dissenting clamor just as they have in so many other decisions taken of late. Their reaction to the voice of dissent doesn't obviate the need for it, though.

No - it really doesn't. It makes it absolutely necessary

But if writing letters won't work - what will?

(trying to wrap my head around the image of nenothtu camped out on a sidewalk somewheres making smores over a coleman stove...) :-)

I'm guessing you're not really leaning in that direction

Either way it goes, I'll be ready and able to meet the challenges. If anyone else doesn't want to deal with it, just stay home and crank the TV up louder.

yes, it would be so much easier to roll over and just go back to sleep - but the easy way is never the cowboy way

this isn't going to be pretty - but it will be interesting

First indefinite detentions, and now this...seems like the US is slowly turning into Saudi Arabia. For a nation so scared of Sharia, it's kind of ironic that they now have their free speech destroyed just like in many Muslim countries. Maybe now some people will understand why the Arab spring happened...

Let's just hope they find a peaceful way to combat this attack on freedom and liberties in the US!!!

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis

But if writing letters won't work - what will?

Non compliance. "Civil disobedience". Ignoring the edicts from on high that require violation of the US Constitution. In more specific terms, circumvention in the very face of the "non-circumvention" provisions. There are already tools in place to accomplish that, and there is furious work going on this instant to improve what is already available, and develop new ones. Some are aimed at facilitation of piracy, but they can be used for other purposes, much like this legislation is alleged to be aimed at piracy, but can and will be used for other purposes.

Some things to check into (and realize that this list is by no means exhaustive) are Tor, Psiphon, MAFIAAFire, DeSOPA, and the host of other, and perhaps more useful, plugins under development by the fine folks at MAFIAAFire. PGP, GPGP. and TrueCrypt are all recommended to keep private stuff private. I know of one case where the FBI worked on decrypting a hard drive encrypted with TrueCrypt for over a year before being forced to admit defeat and return the property. There is another program called "Rubber Hose" that has been used to good effect by human rights activists and dissidents world wide to combat tyranny, but it's a bit more complicated than the above, and I don't know if it's being kept current. As an aside, Rubber Hose is effective against even the UK's draconian anti-encryption laws. TrueCrypt has provisions (i.e. the "plausible deniability - hidden volume" option) to make itself effective against those UK laws as well.

Where there is the will to be defiant, some one will develop the way

The letter writing and serving notice of dissent on lawmakers is just that - serving notice. It's the polite thing to do before going full-on impolite, and ignoring the fact that they ignore US. As far as I'm concerned, one good turn deserves another.

(trying to wrap my head around the image of nenothtu camped out on a sidewalk somewheres making smores over a coleman stove...) :-)

I'm guessing you're not really leaning in that direction

Yeah, it's hard to imagine - even for me - but it could happen. I prefer more rural environs for camping, but one goes where one may have effect in the event of an attempt to make a point. It wouldn't be a sidewalk on Wall Street, or a side walk in front of a record label building - it would be a sidewalk closer to the source of a solution for the problem. Either congress (unlikely at that point) or more appropriately a court that has the potential to hear the case. Results count - all else is flotsam. You see, business and corporations can rant and scream all day. they can buy politicians all week. It's the VOTE on the legislation where the rubber meets the road, and after the bought and paid for politicos deliver what they are bought off to deliver, the matter rests with courts.

this isn't going to be pretty - but it will be interesting

No, it won't be pretty, but it won't be as ugly in the beginning as it may get later on, depending on how far and how hard both sides want to try to press home their points. Protest and dissent come first, refusal to comply second, and only as a last resort full on defense "by all means necessary" in the words of Malcolm X.

I'll lay you odds on which side offers violence first.

Hint: All government - good, bad or indifferent, large or small, religious or secular - ALL government is predicated upon the threat of violence to coerce compliance. If I am merely being non-compliant, I have no reason to be violent. I'm just ignoring them, not buying what they are selling. They, on the other hand, HAVE to employ the threatened violence if I remain non-compliant in order to remain relevant. to not do so is to effectively nullify themselves, and that has never happened in the history of the universe that I know of.

One they do that, once they take that step, all bets are off.

Originally posted by jeichelberg
reply to post by angeldoll

 

Yeah...I do think all the site owners should make a buck...I got no problem with it...I believe SOPA would protect the ownership of the site...

And I have yet to see a legitimate argument stating otherwise...

So...NEXT!!!

Here's a legitimate argument - you do NOT protect the ownership of a site by blocking visitors to the site, especially by doing so over frivolities.

Especially when that site makes a good-faith effort to police itself.

SOPA provides NOTHING to protect copyright - it provides only a means of squelching dissent. As I've said before, it's not even about copyright - that's just an excuse. It's about CONTROL.

If you think anything in SOPA will stop or even contain piracy, you may be one of the more naive persons I've ever run across. Where I come from, they have a saying - "locks are only for honest people."

Originally posted by iksose7
This is terrible. But i have some questions. If passed, will this only effect citizens of the US? And is there anything that someone like i can do because i dont live in the US, other than raise awareness?

Yes.

Run a Tor node.

This should be seen for what it is.

Damn near the final step.

Once they "quiet" the 'net, dark days fast. Maybe very very fast. It's terrifying to know, and to see it happen in slow motion, waiting for the final shoe to drop. SOPA is one of the last shoes IMO.

reply to post by jude11


Nice reply. I myself wonder constantly with sites such as this, all the way to how to make bread, how much information is in fact being gathered, by all sites, where it is being kept and who has the magic button to shut it down. It truly is sobering to think anyone, would have the power, to keep you and I from staying in contact, communication to friends and family, what the problems are or where they are regarding storms, local news, etc. So, if and when an event occurs and martial law is inacted, what then. When the internet is shut down, and the men in black are running amuck and breaking down doors to see how much food you are storing, what then? I hope and encourage you all to take advantage of the privaleges you currently have to contact all and any of your representatives even if you don't agree with or like them. There are countries all over this world that are at war and dying, to have what we have. Godspeed.

I contacted my representative Tim Murphy and he is opposed to the bill thankfully. How others representatives view this bill I don't know. I'll paste his email here....

 
Dear Mr. XXXXXX,
 
Thank you for contacting me regarding H.R. 3261, the Stop Online Piracy Act (SOPA) and S. 968, the Protect IP Act. I appreciate the opportunity to explain to you why I oppose these bills.
 
I support vigorous protections for patents and intellectual property; however, SOPA is the absolute wrong way to get there because it opens the door to regulation of the Internet and censorship by the government. 
 
As currently drafted, SOPA empowers the Department of Justice to block access to a broad spectrum of web sites. To comply with the law and avoid litigation service providers and Internet firms would simply deciding to shut off access to specific IP addresses or prohibit customers from sharing files. Either way, SOPA would dramatically curtail your personal freedom.
 
SOPA establishes an unsettling precedent of federal Internet regulations that could all too easily be used by entrenched special interests to undermine potential competitors. One of the reasons why the Internet is such an important communication platform is that it encourages the free exchange of ideas and technologies. New regulations like SOPA would make it more difficult to collaborate and access data or information and ultimately inhibit the American entrepreneurial spirit.
 
SOPA also utilizes inflexible security standards, which would in turn open loopholes that make online users more vulnerable to hacking and cyber attacks. 
 
H.R. 3261 has been referred to the House Judiciary Committee, which held a subcommittee hearing on the legislation on November 16, 2011. While not a member of the Judiciary Committee, should this legislation come before the full House for consideration in its current form, I will oppose it.
 
Thank you again for contacting me to share your thoughts on H.R. 3261. Please do not hesitate to contact me with further questions or concerns. If you are interested in receiving my email newsletter describing important votes and key committee activity, I invite you to visit my website at murphy.house.gov... and sign up.


Sincerely,

Tim Murphy
Member of Congress

* Please Note:  If you wish to respond to this email, please visit my website and you will be directed how to reply.  
 
    
 

 

reply to post by nenothtu

Non compliance. "Civil disobedience".

:-)

Some are aimed at facilitation of piracy, but they can be used for other purposes, much like this legislation is alleged to be aimed at piracy, but can and will be used for other purposes.

I'm absolutely for protecting people's work, their property, their rights - but this is just trawling. Since when is due process supposed to be easy and cost effective? They're asking the accused to do all their work for them. And since when is it OK to trample some peoples rights in order to supposedly protect the rights of others?

Prosecution is so much easier when you don't have to do anything but flip a switch and watch other people jump

And you're right - that switch is so much easier to flip once it's been installed

Yeah, it's hard to imagine - even for me - but it could happen. I prefer more rural environs for camping, but one goes where one may have effect in the event of an attempt to make a point..

This doesn't surprise me. I'm hearing this same thing from all over lately

...ALL government is predicated upon the threat of violence to coerce compliance. If I am merely being non-compliant, I have no reason to be violent.

Well, I'm a peacenik, so my position is expected - but non violent, civil disobedience is an extremely effective tool. The main drawback is - not everyone sees it that way going in. The whole thing can come undone before it even gets going

Last resorts are last resorts for a reason - and agreed - not an option until there are no other options

You gave me a lot of information to look into - very interesting post

This will all be in the courts for a very long time I imagine. If it's not - then we have something bigger to worry about. I really wish we didn't have to worry about this at all, but seeing as we do, all I can say is - no, not pretty - but still very interesting

Time to write a letter I guess - as good a place as any to start :-)

UPDATE:

I have been able to schedule a meeting with one of the Representatives who is a sponsor of the SOPA bill. We're having our legal firm (a widely recognized intellectual property law firm) help organize salient talking points to help make the best-possible impact.

So rest assured. We at ATS are not just lending our anti-SOPA support via "me too" black outs and lip-service. Nor are we content just to write a letter. I pushed for a meeting, and got it.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord
will you post the results /minutes of the meeting? I bet it will be interesting to read.

reply to post by bekod


You can expect nothing less.

I am speechless about the recent events as the result of ATS owners getting the whores in congress to listen to them, I guess ATS has gotten more powerful that I can even imagine this days.

Congratulations, just remember that those that pay the most in congress are the only ones to get results from congress this days, that and inside trading.

Honestly, congratulations, and I will be waiting for the results of such meeting.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord
this is why i like ATS ask a question get a straight answer, no tip toeing at all, when is this to take place? will the be a mass U2U to let us know?

reply to post by marg6043
Ill second all that you said, ATS is the best site!!!! second to none, that's the way i see it anyway

reply to post by bekod


The meeting is tomorrow afternoon. I'll write a summary as soon as possible after that. But if I can get him to drop his sponsorship... expect a new thread.