Jesus is NOT a copy from Pagan religions! Those are lies! Do research and do not believe!

Originally posted by colbe

Originally posted by michaelsherlock


Do not be too quick to believe! Ask yourself, would you be as quick to accept evidence that contradicted your belief and if not, why? The mind is a mysterious thing, it can work both for and against us.

In the words of the social psychologist, Leon Festinger:

"A man with a conviction is a hard man to change. Tell him you disagree and he turns away. Show him facts or figures and he questions your sources. Appeal to logic and he fails to see your point.
We have all experienced the futility of trying to change a strong conviction, especially if the convinced person has some investment in his belief. We are familiar with the variety of ingenious defenses with which people protect their convictions, managing to keep them unscathed through the most devastating attacks. But man’s resourcefulness goes beyond simply protecting a belief. Suppose an individual believes something with his whole heart; suppose further that he has a commitment to this belief, that he has taken irrevocable actions because of it; finally, suppose that he is presented with evidence, unequivocal and undeniable evidence, that his belief is wrong: what will happen? The individual will frequently emerge, not only unshaken, but even more convinced of the truth of his beliefs than ever before. Indeed, he may even show a new fervor about convincing and converting other people to his view."

I would be interested to find out more about these scientific tests on the shroud, sounds interesting.

I can't disagree, we all have particular convictions and everyone is
biased especially by upbringing. But...
Isn't it something when you discover something new that causes you
to change about a long held belief...bias.

The thing about the faith, the more you read of who God is the more
you are drawn to Him. I love Scripture and the writings of the saints
but I am especially drawn to prophecy. A partial definition of prophecy, prophecy makes explicit God's revelation. It's so beautiful, it is more, the prophetic helps you to persevere when you see the loss of faith and
the negative times.

You are aware, you have a powerful patron saint, Saint Michael, the
Archangel. Pray to him, speak to him and to your guardian angel.

Here's a link to an ABC article about the new Italian study of the Shroud.
I think it took five years. I remember a number about the "light" needed.
We can produce several billion UVUs today. It took 34 billion UVUs to make the marks on the Shroud.

Plus, there other mystical facts.

abcnews.go.com...


p.s. bookmark a direct link to current messages from Heaven, Catholic
and a some non-Catholic Christian. www.catholicbinder.com...

Colbe, firstly I would like to thank you for taking the time to get me that link, it is much appreciated.

With regards to prophecy, I deal with that issue in my book. I have read the Bible several times and have written out the entire Pentateuch with commentary for my own bible study. I have read the opinions of both conservative and liberal bible scholars and archaeologists, I have read many of the works of early church fathers. On top of this I have read many of the more ancient teachers like Plato, Socrates (plato), Porphyry, Celsus, Aristothenes, Buddha, the Hindu Scriptures, the ancient Sumerian and Babylonian myths and the ancient Greek, Egyptian and Roman mythologies. I have come to the tentative conclusion that we cannot understand Christianity unless we understand the soil in which it grew. THat is to say, we cannot understand a religion until we understand the society, components that make up that society and its history. When we analyze Christianity from this objective point of view, it becomes very clear that it is copied from earlier philosophies and religions. I am not a fan of Zietgiest and think that many of the points it raised, it did so without eloquence and failed to support many of its conclusions with facts. It did contain some truths, however, truths that have an overwhelming amount of support from facts. I am a member of various apologetic forums and discuss such matters with some of America's top apologists, yet none of them have been able to convince me that their faith, their belief, is in any way above any of the other thousands of beliefs present in the world. Think about it mathematically! Christianity has a thousands in one shot, of being the truth. Those are terrible odds. But I could be wrong and so I keep my mind open to that possibility, yet in all of the books I have read and all of the Christians I have spoken to, and I used to be one myself, my great uncle was an Irish priest and his sister a Nun, none have been able to give me a good reason to abandon open minded truth for close minded faith.

reply to post by michaelsherlock

..yet in all of the books I have read and all of the Christians I have spoken to, and I used to be one myself, my great uncle was an Irish priest and his sister a Nun, none have been able to give me a good reason to abandon open minded truth for close minded faith.

Christianity is an extension of Judaism ..has not that been around for a very long time?

The fact is that we all have to rely on faith of some kind.. you use your faith to believe in ancient writings about what is truth..and where truth originated from.. much as Christians use their faith in believing the history they are presented with.

The difference is the actual works of the Holy Spirit in modern times.. which have even some scientists and doctors baffled....and has even converted very strong atheists. So really in essence ..your open minded truth.. is only faith in something else other than what Christian history teaches us.

There’s an astronomical event which happens around the winter solstice in the northern hemisphere
The three belt stars of the constellation of Orion and the brightest star in the night sky called Sirius form a pointer to where the sun will rise on the horizon during the solstice

stellarhousepublishing.com...
or
www.andrewfazekas.com...

Some of the names for the Belt of Orion are Jacob's Rod or Staff; Peter's Staff; the Golden Yard-arm; the L, or Ell; the Ell and Yard; the Yard-stick, and the Yard-wand; the Ellwand; Our Lady's Wand; the Magi; the Three Kings; the Three Marys; or simply the Three Stars.

so this idea of this being a pointer to where the sun will appear on the winter solstice has been understood for a long time

Now read Matthew 2:

Matthew 2
Wise Men from the East
1 Now after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold, wise men from the East came to Jerusalem, 2 saying, “Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we have seen His star in the East and have come to worship Him.”

9 When they heard the king, they departed; and behold, the star which they had seen in the East went before them, till it came and stood over where the young Child was. 10 When they saw the star, they rejoiced with exceedingly great joy. 11 And when they had come into the house, they saw the young Child with Mary His mother, and fell down and worshiped Him. And when they had opened their treasures, they presented gifts to Him: gold, frankincense, and myrrh.

And some of the oddity’s in the text become clearer

the Magi or three kings see a star in the east so why did they go west to go to Jerusalem?
The Magi or three kings follow a star to where Christ is born?
The Magi or three kings go to a house (astrological reference?) and not a stable

Its my opinion that whoever wrote Matthew 2 was using this bit of occult astronomical knowledge to point out to those who would understand that Jesus is actually the sun and to keep those who will never get past the Sunday school version of the story in the dark so to speak

Christianity = sun cult

weird how this thread has 66 flags.

I would like to share an "excerpt" I came across yesterday. It doesn't matter your faith background or lack of faith, this will melt your heart !! ~~ Take a moment to read it.

It is a message given to a seer in the 1940s. Her name is Gabrielle Bossis. The book He and I is online, I must look for the link.


TAKEN FROM HE AND I ~ GABRIELLE BOSSIS ~


1948 - April


JESUS: "Have you thanked Me for all I did for you, for mankind, for the angels, for My mother? What a concert of blessings, My child! Gather them all as though they were yours and join in the symphony of thanksgiving. Sing your part in the choir of numberless vocices, and I'll know it from all the others. Are there two voices alike in the whole world? Aren't you struck by the diversity in human creation? In heaven too, each saint differs from the other, and if you are enchanted by the variety of colors in your garden, you may be sure that Paradise flashes with a myriad of many-spendored things, all for My glory. There too, I know the voices, for I know you all. My children, I atoned for all of you and I know My redeemed ones."


Gabrielle says: "Lord, who will teach me to thank You and what words should I use?"


JESUS: "The most simple - straight from your heart. Say them to Me as Mass. Say them again after your Communion when we are only one. Once more it will be I who give them to you. How I love to act for Myself in you. Can you believe that? I feel at home, and I feel you are Mine. Be very much Mine . . . I was going to say, 'Be your Christ before the Father, before others. Be the gentlest and the smallest."


Gabrielle: "Lord, I should so love to live Your words, and I am always myself, still my old self."


JESUS: "Is it so difficult to think of your Lord? Is it so difficult to talk with Him and to keep Him company?


When you meet someone in a waiting room, don't you instinctively approach that person and in a kindly way do your best to make the time pass pleasantly for him? And if he were a poet, or a scholar, or someone great in the eyes of the world, wouldn't you go even further and show more joy?


( this is so precious )


My child, it's a God who is waiting at the door of your heart, a God who is all yours and who is in you. You open to Him when you talk to Him, when you look at Him, when you try to take your thoughts off the things around you so that you may turn them to Him with the utmost tenderness.


Don't think that this is a fable I'm telling you. It is the simple reality. But as it's all happening in the showland where everything is imperfection, you find it difficult to believe, and you are slow in acting upon it. That is why I am like that person in the waiting room. [this is good] He contnues: If only you could approach Me more often with all your kind charm, you might suspect My long yearnings. You might think. 'He's waiting for the world.' Yes, My little child, for everyone, and for such a long, long time . . I came to Bethlehem to seek them and I shall go on seeking them right to the end of the world.


This is the patience of God. This is His love. Then how could you ever understand? Yet it would be very sweet to BELIEVE, wouldn't it? So quicken your faith by telling Me about it often. More often. Don't get weary: you will hope more and love more. It's your great God who wants you greatly, My very frail little girl."


"One step ahead. One step in your attentive will. One step in your faithfulness. Up until now you have lived for Me, by you. now, live for me, by Me. One step forward . . . "



I ask God to bless and love you and yours, through Mother Mary's Sorrowful and Immaculate Heart ~ Our Virgin Mother of Seven Sorrows ~

Had a visit from an old lady with a bible in her hand the other day. I said no thanks! It's all based on Paganism!!

lol

If u wish to worship the sun that's up to u. But don't go preaching your rubbish about how Jesus was a man and he died on a cross for our sins. It's all rubbish......Paganistic symbolism!!

Originally posted by stevcolx
Had a visit from an old lady with a bible in her hand the other day. I said no thanks! It's all based on Paganism!!

lol

If u wish to worship the sun that's up to u. But don't go preaching your rubbish about how Jesus was a man and he died on a cross for our sins. It's all rubbish......Paganistic symbolism!!

Steve,

I don't have a Bible in my hand. Read the private revelation I just posted,
all the way through. It's brief and very touching. It was said in 1948,
Jesus doesn't change, this is who He is...

If the God in that message doesn't exist...
I don't see the point to living.

Speak to Jesus in prayer, a couple moments each day and you will
find you desire talk to Him and think of Him more and more every day.


God bless you,


colbe

Originally posted by stevcolx
Had a visit from an old lady with a bible in her hand the other day. I said no thanks! It's all based on Paganism!!

lol

If u wish to worship the sun that's up to u. But don't go preaching your rubbish about how Jesus was a man and he died on a cross for our sins. It's all rubbish......Paganistic symbolism!!

Acts 13 8-10 But Elymas the magician (for that is the meaning of his name) opposed them, seeking to turn the proconsul away from the faith. But Saul, who was also called Paul, filled with the Holy Spirit, looked intently at him and said, “You son of the devil, you enemy of all righteousness, full of all deceit and villainy, will you not stop making crooked the straight paths of the Lord?


2 Peter 2:1 But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.


Ephesians 6 10-18 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of his might. Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil. For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand firm. Stand therefore, having fastened on the belt of truth, and having put on the breastplate of righteousness, ...

Originally posted by gabby2011
reply to post by michaelsherlock

 

..yet in all of the books I have read and all of the Christians I have spoken to, and I used to be one myself, my great uncle was an Irish priest and his sister a Nun, none have been able to give me a good reason to abandon open minded truth for close minded faith.

Christianity is an extension of Judaism ..has not that been around for a very long time?

The fact is that we all have to rely on faith of some kind.. you use your faith to believe in ancient writings about what is truth..and where truth originated from.. much as Christians use their faith in believing the history they are presented with.

The difference is the actual works of the Holy Spirit in modern times.. which have even some scientists and doctors baffled....and has even converted very strong atheists. So really in essence ..your open minded truth.. is only faith in something else other than what Christian history teaches us.

edit on 16-1-2012 by gabby2011 because: (no reason given)

Hi Gabby,

Firstly, Just because something has been around for a long time or spread, does not necessarily mean it is true or even worthwhile, I am sure you could think of some examples to support what I am saying, but if you cannot I will give you one, Slavery, it has been around longer than Judaism and was even more widespread, yet we do not say, well it has been around for a long time and was popular so it must be right!

Secondly, it is true that we all have some kind of belief, but when that belief overshadows our perception which is often the case, it invalidates our experience and in such a condition we cannot trust our experience to tell us the truth, it is slanted by our belief. I do not have faith in the ancient writings, I only observe three facts regarding their existence;

1. They are older than both Judaism and Christianity
2. In many ways they are identicle to the aforementioned religions
3. Both the Jews and the Christians had contact with the people who told these ancient legends before both Judaism and Christianity took shape.

Thus, if we analyze the situation upon 'Occams Razor' it becomes rather apparant that the more contemporary copied from the more ancient, it is a natural descent of ideas, myths and symbols, which if you research it far enough back in time, seems to go back to Sumer and Egypt, with the former possibly being the originator, but who can truely say!

Finally, what are these so called works of the Holy Spirit (divine breath) and how do you know that are not the works of Krishna, or Allah, or Ahura Mazda, or simply human progress, or regress as it may be called for many good reasons. If you look at society before and after Christ's alleged advent, you will see that nothing much has changed. Wars, Oppression, disease, racism, tyranny all still exist.

Originally posted by colbe

Originally posted by stevcolx
Had a visit from an old lady with a bible in her hand the other day. I said no thanks! It's all based on Paganism!!

lol

If u wish to worship the sun that's up to u. But don't go preaching your rubbish about how Jesus was a man and he died on a cross for our sins. It's all rubbish......Paganistic symbolism!!

Steve,

I don't have a Bible in my hand. Read the private revelation I just posted,
all the way through. It's brief and very touching. It was said in 1948,
Jesus doesn't change, this is who He is...

If the God in that message doesn't exist...
I don't see the point to living.

Speak to Jesus in prayer, a couple moments each day and you will
find you desire talk to Him and think of Him more and more every day.


God bless you,


colbe

Do anything for a couple of moments every day and you will feel the need to continue that act, it is called developing a habit!

This is a good thread for this message. If you doubt now, just remember
what is written and do as Our Lord directs, okay?


~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Message to Maria/Divine Mercy

The Sealed Book of Truth will be opened in preparation for My Second Coming

Friday, January 20th, 2012 @ 08:15 pm


My dearly beloved daughter it is not necessary to worry about human opinion.

The views of mankind are nothing when compared to My Holy words given to you.

My word comes first. No other views against My word should concern you.

Time, My daughter, is very short now for Me to save humanity.

My daughter so much will now be expected of you so quickly that you will not be able to draw your breath.

There are many revelations now being imparted to you so that My children know how to prepare themselves properly.

Should you allow distractions such as people’s opinions or views take up your time unnecessarily then this will take you away from the work which is truly important.

Allow Me to fill you with love and comfort at this time My daughter.

The Warning is very close. As soon as My rays of mercy envelope the whole world anyone who believes in Me will repent.

Those who denounce My messages given to you, and who love Me, will turn back to My Sacred heart with love and joy in their souls.

No sooner will the warning have taken place than a number of events will occur. The antichrist and his group, although weakened as a result of the global confession, will begin to plan his seizure of My Holy Church from within.

My army will take position and begin to fight to save the Holy Catholic church from ruination. They, the false prophet and his followers will not win, My daughter but how I cry for those sacred servants of mine who will fall by the wayside.

So deluded will they be that they will think they are following the orthodox Catholic Church.

In fact they will be siding with the false prophet who will rule over My Holy See with pride and contempt in his heart.

You, My daughter must ask My children to pray hard in order to mitigate this abomination.

I need prayer to save the souls of My poor misguided priests, bishops and cardinals blind to the truth.

The Holy seat of Peter will be desecrated by satan’s fallen angels in league with the anti-christ and his various organisations.

All are one My daughter spawned from satan.

I know that this is frightening but it will not last long. Prayer and much of it will ease and help avert these events. Prepare your souls now children by going to confession if you are Catholic as soon as you can. Otherwise I urge all of you to seek redemption for your sins with a purity of heart. This will ease your suffering of penance at The Warning. Afterwards you must pray for peace on earth.

Preparations for My Second Coming will commence immediately after the warning takes place.

The sealed book of truth will be opened and the secrets revealed through you, My daughter, for the whole world to see.

My book of truth will be given to the world so that your souls are purified in union with Me.

Only then will you be ready to come with Me into the Era of My Father’s Divine Will, the Era of Peace, My new Paradise on earth.

Your beloved Jesus

Saviour of Mankind


www.thewarningsecondcoming.com...

jesus may not be a copy, but all rituals of the christian (and other religions) are.

Originally posted by BBalazs
jesus may not be a copy, but all rituals of the christian (and other religions) are.

No offense,but generalizations on religious rituals does not sound right.


Bakc on topic,I believe (not 100%) Jesus exists,but is he a Gnostic , Muslim or ???

Meh. Belief in religion vs non belief in religion is the same thing as belief in abortion and non belief in abortion. Both are correct, both are not correct - it's all opinion and a personal thing.

I used to be Christian til I realized stuff from talking to atheist friends and reading up on line. I can't fully say it doesn't exist so I just say I'm a polytheist agnostic. I think god/God/goddesses could have/may exist but I will not 100% believe until I see 100% undeniable proof (and faith is NOT proof. I had faith in santa claus as a kid and look what happened there.)


Humans, do what you must to be happy and live good lives. It's all that matters.

I think stories in the bible can relate to many different things. There are synchronicities in everything from microcosmic to macrocosmic. Which is why the ancients came up with a similar story over and over. They could see these synchronicities because their mind was more in touch with our true nature. They could use multiple sources to map out the future. Astrology, numerology, alchemy...etc. They knew the languages of the universe! Now everything just looks like a bunch of riddles and symbols that everyone tries to explain to get back in touch with our true nature. We think we're smart now but the ancients in my mind had us beat because they werent corrupted through materialism and poisons like we are today! Not saying jesus wasnt real...maybe his story did synchronize with with all the stories of the astrology and heavenly bodies. After all it does say in the bible the heavens are for signs and wonders!

reply to post by QuantumSeeker

generalization or not, or wether it sound right is exactly what happened.
most rituals can clearly be traced back to preexisting earlier rituals.

Originally posted by BBalazs
jesus may not be a copy, but all rituals of the christian (and other religions) are.

To help people understand, there are some holy "rituals" established by
God and we see made greater by God in the New Covenant!

Isn't it something, clear back in the Book of Daniel, we here of the "continual sacrifice." This is prophecy about the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

+ + +

Protestants have many arguments against the Eucharist and the Mass. They understand, correctly, that these things are the very heart of Catholicism (“Destroy the Mass, destroy the Church” – Luther). To touch upon perhaps the greatest error (or most twisted teaching): Christ is not “re-crucified” at the Mass (a ridiculous and purposefully ignorant teaching): rather, Christ’s single, timeless Sacrifice on Calvary is “made present” and presented to the Father. (Such a concept was readily to familiar to the early Christians, most of them Jews who considered their Passover sacrifice to be the “re-living” of the Exodus, not just its remembrance.) God, of course, lies outside the bounds of time; all time is stretched out before Him to see. Because humans offend Him with sin constantly, and in the present, it is fitting that His just anger be appeased continually by Christ’s propitiatory Sacrifice.

Agreed. "Zietgiest", or, as Chris White refers to it as," Mystery Schools For Dummies", is to blame for most internet viewers buying this unsubstantiated load of crap. Take "The Zietgiest Challenge", prove me wrong, and win cash doing it. No winners as of 3 years up.

reply to post by arpgme


You are absolutely right! Jesus was an original. The first to be resurrected in the flesh, the first to be worshipped on Sunday, the first to have his birthday celebrated on Dec 25th, the first to have 12 followers, the first to have a virgin mother, the first to have his birth announced by angels/oracles/dreams, the first to be called the "Lamb" the first to be crucified, the first to go into the underworld for 3 days, the first to be worshipped as an intercesor of God, the first to be born of god and mortal union, the first to be miraculously conceieved, the first to have prophecies attributed to his birth, the first to heal the blind and sick, the first to raise the dead, the first to teach "do unto others!" Just the first! And anyone who says anything to the contrary is a liar and and anti-Christ and any evidence which suggests otherwise has been fabricated by the devil and his evil demons, who as the 2nd century father Justin Martyr said, love to contrive such stories and fabrications in advance of Christ's birth and life! So there! I'm not going to listen!!!!!! NA NA NA NA!! I CANT HEAR YOU!!!!!

"Religion itself is actualy the oldest form of conspiracy theory."

Perhaps in one point in the past, people asked the philosophical question of their existence and that of the world. And because they had none of any explaination, they had to come up with some theory. They had to make up a speculation. And it was about (an) almighty ethereal being(s), (the) god(s). There u go....

Its like the Dulce Book/papers, no one has confirmed it to be neither true or false, yet. But if enough people would put believe in it, considering it was a quite compeling story, then it could become a religion to some. Just like starwars was.