Jesus is NOT a copy from Pagan religions! Those are lies! Do research and do not believe!

reply to post by arpgme


Yes, a lot went on before Christ. Many great ancient philosophies were adopted by Christianity.

reply to post by arpgme


Nobody said every single thing about Jesus is identical to some random Pagan God.

They did, however, say that many aspects of what we think we know about Jesus come from old celebrations dedicated to Pagan Gods.

For instance, Christmas in ancient times was when the poor went the the houses of the middle class and rich and demanded food and shelter - and if they didn't receive food and shelter they would damage the owner's property. It is clear in the scripture that Jesus was not born on Dec 25. It's clear he wasn't even born in winter. But something needed to be done about the large pagan-oriented holiday that happened on the final day of the Winter Solestace. It was for that reason we celebrate Christ's birthday in December.

In short - You're right.. Jesus Christ is not a copy of a Pagan God.

However - many things we do in celebration of Jesus are because of old Pagan rituals and holidays.

Many things we are told about Jesus are incorrect..

And finally, whether or not ANY of these characters actually existed is debatable. All of their birthdays / backgrounds / etc came from explaining phenomenon on Earth that we now explain with science.

reply to post by arpgme


Also, OP... You're a complete hypocrite because you claim to judge only from the true scripture while simultaneously calling someone a satanist which was an invention of monarchs and bloated Christian authority long, looooong after Christ was dead.

Like you, this post struggles to make a point and is sub-par at best. (That's being extremely generous, especially since there's not a single link.)

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

So you believe in Immortals away from the earth, but not saviours of mankind whose message on earth was specifically for the raising up of mankind's consciousness back to Oneness with the Creator?

Friend, let me be perfectly clear. It is not that I "believe in" Immortal Souls, this is something I know for absolute certainty. The Human Soul is composed of Pure Energy. Energy, most especially the Pure variety, can never be destroyed. Can you destroy a lightening bolt? That in itself designates an Immortality of the Human Soul. As for "saviours of mankind," there have been many of them. I myself have seen and heard plenty. Mankind/Womankind (funny you all never mention the Feminine aspect of Divinity) are our own saviours. Think about this for a second...
If all you have to do is think that Jesus is God, and give over your heart, soul, and will to Jesus, then you get a ticket to Heaven. That is how I understand it. Then one can do nearly anything and still know that Jesus is coming down on a rescue cloud to pick me up because I am a good Christian. I guess Jesus will look over all of the bad things the Church has done in the past, and he will surely look over the looks you have for the neighbor's wife, or daughter, and he will certainly look over that you cheated on your taxes, and told a lie to get ahead on the job.

The point of a Messenger of God is to teach mankind who are not themselves able to see the Divine.

Well, let me see here. I think Jesus did in fact try to teach you all how to live, did any one of you listen? He said you are to love one another. Do you love everyone, even if they are of a different religious faith? Jesus taught that men are free to believe and do whatever they like. Are you OK with a Gay person, or a woman getting an abortion? Jesus taught that we could have Spiritual Unity without necessarily having Philosophical Uniformity. (Means we don't have to go to Church and worship Jesus to get back to the Divine.) Jesus taught that all is one, all is God, and man is God. Hear that? We are all God.
Jesus taught that our enemies are our neighbors. He did not teach us to judge them, or doom them to something their dogmatic faith thought up.
Jesus taught that true righteousness comes from within, not without, like Christians seem to think. Jesus taught that it is not wise for us to decide where to draw the line between insiders and outsiders. Jesus taught that faith, simple childlike belief, is the key to the door of the kingdom. Jesus taught that all must be born of Water and the Spirit (Born of Woman) to enter the kingdom of God. Jesus taught that the Holy Spirit will come and dwell in us. (It does, in all of us) Jesus taught that people have to be ready to forgive. Jesus taught that there is a lot of false thinking out there. Jesus taught that death is not the end, but a new beginning. Jesus taught that Hell was a place of Memory. Jesus taught that there were men that "appear to people as righteous but on the inside" are "full of hypocrisy and wickedness" on the outside. Jesus never once said he was God incarnate. When he said, "My Father and I are one," he meant we are of the same cloth.

So, I have to ask, did any of you listen? Or did you actually go about creating a dogma, with one and only one way to gain the Divine Presence, and set up a book as the only authority on the matter, and then demand servitude to the man who brought the message, and tithing over your hard earned pay to a concept called "Giving to God?" Did you build structures over former Sacred sites associated with Pagans, and then claim that God lives here? And did you forget that the man not only had a Father, he had a Mother too, a Mother of a Divine Nature?

The true message of Jesus was not, "worship me, I am God," it was rather, look at me, listen to me, see what I am about, and follow me? Be like I am?

Originally posted by thegagefather
reply to post by arpgme

 

And finally, whether or not ANY of these characters actually existed is debatable. All of their birthdays / backgrounds / etc came from explaining phenomenon on Earth that we now explain with science.

Some may be debatable. Mithra\Mithras existance? I really could not say one way or another.

The end of the wikipedia article below sums up what i said earlier about interpreting things from a simple drawing or sculpture but that is not enough to say anything with certainty. If anyone can come up with some actual information i would be happy to look at it.

Here is what i am referencing:

The most important part of the article is at the end which states:

Much about the cult of Mithras is only known from reliefs and sculptures. There have been many attempts to interpret this material.

If any of those sculptures or picture corroborate any claims i have not noticed.

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by thegagefather


It's right to call her a Satanist, she's the one that said that Satan is more peaceful than God because no one kills in his name... She's the one that said "maybe Satan is God"...

The true message of Jesus was not, "worship me, I am God," it was rather, look at me, listen to me, see what I am about, and follow me? Be like I am?

reply to post by autowrench


You do truly understand the message of 'Jesus'. I am very glad that 'religion' has not caused you to dismiss the only real truth that matters!!


Now at the risk of coming across all 'Christiany':: I do sincerely (hope,pray,believe) that since you have realized this truth, the one small step it takes to receive Him into your soul will be the next step.

Not pushing an agenda on ya, since it's not my job to "save your soul". That's the Holy Spirit's job, and what help could someone as crappy as me give to Him? Just in hopes that as you seek the truth that underlies all of creation, the Light will shine on the Way for you, brother!!

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by thegagefather

 

she's the one that said that Satan is more peaceful than God because no one kills in his name... She's the one that said "maybe Satan is God"...

And dont you find that to be ridiculous?

Everything one needs to know about Mithra/Mithras and his origins.

Link

Strange question, why does everyone depict christ as being white, beoing from that part of the world theres very lil chance he was white..............



Just wondering, I meen u can make imaginary friends any color u want

Originally posted by Garkiniss
Everything one needs to know about Mithra/Mithras and his origins.

Link

We already covered that. Only thing missing is proof for any of it.

Proof is not:

Jim S form New Jersey said...

Originally posted by Malcher
reply to post by Jakes51

 

Except that we are certain there were Christians starting from around the exact time all this was supposed to have gone down.

Like you said, believing is another matter, but to doubt this person existed is like denying anyone existed. You can deny anyone existed but that is a bit delusional.

Yes, it is accepted fact that there were early questions around the alleged time of Christ and shortly thereafter. However, when it comes to an actual smoking gun as to Christ the historical figure that is up in the air at this point. I am not doubting that Jesus walked some 2,000 years ago, but all we have to go on is some sparse circumstantial evidence in the works of Josephus, the Bible, and early Christian scholars. That is about it.

I am having a hard time imagining one of the most important men in history as many believe now and in antiquity, and yet; humanity knows so little about them other than what is mentioned in the Bible.Therefore, the skeptics and the atheists are going to sight those discrepancies. I am only stating the obvious. As I mentioned earlier, faith has to come into the picture when accepting the spiritual, historical, and physical sides of the story. Thanks for your reply!

Originally posted by DaveNorris
Strange question, why does everyone depict christ as being white, beoing from that part of the world theres very lil chance he was white..............



Just wondering, I meen u can make imaginary friends any color u want

There are many people from that area who were white and still are white. Well different shades of color anyway. Look at people from the ME even today and many could pass for Europeans. So thats not an impossibility and then consider their features as well, not just skin color.

Originally posted by Grimpachi

How do you prove someone doesn't exist and never did exist? And can you tell me what history books and Jesus Christ as a historical figure. I'm not talking about church history books I'm talking about real history.

Question: Do other historical records besides the bible mention Jesus? Yes!

Keep in mind that if all the documents we have from the first two centuries AD were collected and put on a bookshelf, they might take two feet of shelf space.

One of the best known references to Jesus is in Josephus's history titled Antiquities. (Flavius Josephus was born in AD 37 and died in AD 97).

Other ancient writers who mention Christ are Cornelius Tacitus (AD 55-120), Gaius Suetonius Tranquillas (secretary to Emperor Hadrian (AD 117-138), and Pliny the Younger who was a Roman author and administrator.

Writting in the year AD 221, Julius Africanus quotes from a history of the Eastern Mediterranean written in about AD 52 by Thallus. Julius Africanus writes concerning the time of Jesus' crucifixion::

"On the whole world there pressed a most fearful darkness; and the rocks were rent by an earthquake, and many places in Judea and other districts were thrown down. This darkness Thallus, in the third book of his History, calls, as appears to me without reason, an eclipse of the sun."*

In addition, the writings of opponents of Christianty such as Jews and Gnostics, confirm that Jesus was a real person. If they could, the best alternative for Christianity's enemies would have been to say Jesus never lived. But the evidence was too real and fresh--there were people still alive who knew Jesus or the Apostles. Their only alternative was to accept Jesus, but change his message.

The conclusion: the non-Christian writtings confirm that Jesus was a real person.

www.missiontoamerica.org...

Josephus' Antiquities - Written around AD 90-95.

Several copies of Josephus' Antiquities are available. The following is from an Arabic manuscript that became public in 1972.

"At this time there was a wise man who was called Jesus. His conduct was good and (he) was known to be virtuous. And many people from among the Jews and other nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned him to be crucified and to die. But those who had become his disciples did not abandon his discipleship. They reported that he had appeared to them three days after his crucifixion, and that he was alive."*

* From "The Historial Jesus" by Gary R. Habermas

Finally, there is a mysterious text known as the Acts of Pilate, a kind of report about the death of Jesus, in which the governor of Judaea shows genuine sympathy to those weeping Jews who desire Jesus not to be crucified. Of course, Pilate must have reported about the incident. All governors wrote letters to the emperor, and will have boasted the crucifixion of a pretender.

www.livius.org...

Jesus is even mentioned in the Qur'an.

This is of the tidings of things unseen which WE reveal to thee. And thou was not with them when they cast their arrows, as to which of them should be the guardian of Mary, nor was thou with them when they disputed with one another.

When the angels said, 'O Mary, ALLAH gives thee glad tidings of a son through a word from HIM; his name shall be the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, honoured in this world and in the next, and of those who are granted nearness to God;

'And he shall speak to the people in the cradle, and when of middle age, and he shall be of the righteous.

She said, 'My Lord, how shall I have a son, when no man has touched me? He said, 'Such is the way of ALLAH. HE creates what HE pleases. When HE decrees a thing HE says to it 'Be,' and it is;"—Qur'an, Surah 3:38-48

Muhammad also speaks of the resurrection of Jesus:

"Thereupon she pointed to him. They said, 'How can we talk to one who is a child in the cradle?' Jesus said, 'I am a servant of ALLAH. HE has given me the Book, and has made me a Prophet; 'And HE has made me blessed wheresoever I may be, and has enjoined upon me Prayer and almsgiving so long as I live; 'And HE has made me dutiful towards my mother, and has not made me arrogant and graceless; 'And peace was on me the day I was born, and peace will be on me the day I shall die, and the day I shall be raised up to life again.' That was Jesus, son of Mary. This is a statement of the truth concerning which they entertain doubt."—Qur'an, Surah 19:30-35

www.christiananswers.net...

Any questions??

Originally posted by Malcher

Originally posted by Garkiniss
Everything one needs to know about Mithra/Mithras and his origins.

Link

We already covered that. Only thing missing is proof for any of it.

Proof is not:

Jim S from New Jersey said...

Actually the author of that blog's name is Kaveh Shahidi, who lives in Turkey, one of the parts of the world where Mithraism was very very popular. He also cites sources on his site. He doesn't provide links, so you'll have to type in some research of your own, but the sources are mentioned. He also added some artwork showing Mithra, which is about as much proof as we have of Jesus... at least Jesus as a divine being.
Sure there are ancient writings (outside of the bible) mentioning Jesus, but none of them mention his awesome feats, which you think would've made the news back then.

And to answer the question about Christ's race? Sure there were whites in that region at the time, as there still are today, but the bible gives clues as to Jesus' appearance. The bible mentions he had hair like sheep's wool and skin like bronze burned in a furnace.

Jesus was born of the tribe of Judah. Judah was and still are "Negroes". Jesus said to his disciples that he was seeking the lost sheep of the House of Israel. The lost sheep, not the whole house of Israel, but those that were sent astray. In John 1:11, Jesus said he came to my own, but his own received him not. In Matthew 10:5-6, he told the disciples not to go into the way of the Gentiles. He would not heal a Canaanite woman in Matthew 15:22-24. Negroes today, know this! You are not Gentiles; you are the lost sheep of the house of Israel. You are from a holy bloodline that has been scattered all over the world. Your hair is like that of a sheep or a lamb. And in Matthew 25:32, Jesus said he separates the sheep from the goat. In Matthew 24:9, Jesus also said, you will be hated by all nations for my sake. Everybody seems to hate the Negro. Jesus said we are the salt of the Earth but we have lost our savour in Matthew 5:13. He said they will chase you out of the Synagogues, and they did in Matthew 10:17 and Mark 13:9. So our traditional Judaic religion of keeping the laws was replaced by a Roman Paulian version of Hellenism and we replaced our synagogues with the new word ‘church.’

reply to post by britelite1971


The Qur'an was written over half a millennium AFTER Jesus' alleged crucifiction, when Christianity was already well known. Hardly a reliable source. Jesus may have been a real person, but the topic is: Is his divine story original or borrowed.

No, Jesus is a direct fabrication copying the egyptian god's son Horus. there lives are identical, try researching that if you dont beleive me.

Originally posted by Malcher

Originally posted by mutatismutandis

Originally posted by Malcher

Originally posted by mutatismutandis
Mythra was known as "the living spirit", "the way", "the truth", "the light", "son of god", "the good sheapard".

Mythra was born Dec. 25 to the virgin Anahita and is believed to be the mediator between god and man, often represented carrying a lamb on his shoulder.

He was wrapped in swaddling clothes and placed in a manger watched over by sheapards.

He had 12 deciples, emphasised baptism, performed "the lords supper", and ascended into heaven.
(sound familiar christians?)

That is just one of the indivuals brought up by the OP, I can keep going with the others if you'd like!

Unlike the OP, I have sources to back my statements (but I'm sure this is all just the devil talking right?):

en.wikipedia.org...

www.truthbeknown.com/mithra.htm

The wikipedia article may (who really knows?) correct, but your version is not. At least there sure is no credible evidence. I know you read it on a "tripod site".

I doubt you meant Mythra.

The sources are there on the site, it was just the first to come to mind that had them all listed rather than posting 30 links but feel free to look into it.

I beg everyone to please don't just take my word as a deterent for your faith...the lessons to be learned from all religions are invaluable. Every religion has beliefs that every man of every faith can embrace, or they wouldn't have been religions in the first place. It doesn't matter who was first, who was right...its a way of life regardless of your beliefs. I just personally believe we need to get over the "fact vs fiction" hump before faith is once again embraced by all.

The wiki article does not mention the things you cut and pasted. That is known as intellectual dishonesty.

Based on the title of the second link i didnt bother to even click on it. "truthbeknown.com"...Come on...

After you persisted i clicked on it and i have seen that site before. If i set up a web site would you just believe everything i write on it? I hope not. Mithra is a dead issue, reason is because there is zero proof of those things you mentioned.

Again, the souces are there on the site...many of which are directly from the manuscripts. Like I said, I chose the link out of simplicity, but hundreds of others out there echo the same truths. If the site is the issue then go direct to the source, the mythos they are quoting. I would be the first to admit that sure, it could be one heck of a coincidence, but to dismiss the evidence all together is ignorant at best. The only sites stating there is zero proof are the christian sponsored sites, and they completely deny what's being presented to them by individuals that spent their lifetime researching it.

Please understand as well, I was raised christian...attended church "religiously". I am a very faithful individual, and would like nothing more to able to come on here and say the bible said it first. It was my belief in my faith that made me want to confirm what I believed was true. It was my own research into this subject that confirmed the christ story has been repeted through history, not just in the mithra case. I also came to realize this isn't a negative thing. There is a reason we want the stories to be true, they speak to the very core of the human belief system, and moral guidelines. We uphold these beliefs because they reflect the moral understanding of every person regarless of religious preference.

With that said, I whole heartedly believe there once existed an individual or individuals that spoke of and meant these truths and touched the lives of many...but was jesus the first or the only? Not by a long shot! Its historical fact, regardless of if modern christians want to except it or not. Realizing the truths of world religions only brings you closer to the creator! There is no greater feeling knowing your still faithful after seeing through the garbage, and I sincerly hope it is something everyone can experience one day!

Originally posted by Garkiniss
Everything one needs to know about Mithra/Mithras and his origins.

Link

in other words, one must be braindead not to see the same ole traits being bestowed upon all of our "gods"


Mithra has the following in common with the Jesus character:
Mithra was born on December 25th of the virgin Anahita
The babe was wrapped in swaddling clothes, placed in a manger and attended by shepherds
He was considered a great traveling teacher and master
He had 12 companions or "disciples"
He performed miracles
As the "great bull of the Sun," Mithra sacrificed himself for world peace


Mithra ascending to heaven in his solar cart,
with sun symbol

He ascended to heaven
Mithra was viewed as the Good Shepherd, the "Way, the Truth and the Light," the Redeemer, the Savior, the Messiah
Mithra is omniscient, as he "hears all, sees all, knows all: none can deceive him"
He was identified with both the Lion and the Lamb
His sacred day was Sunday, "the Lord's Day," hundreds of years before the appearance of Christ
His religion had a eucharist or "Lord's Supper"
Mithra "sets his marks on the foreheads of his soldiers"
Mithraism emphasized baptism.

reply to post by SuperTripps

Exactly. If Christianity were born today, someone would be fined for plagiarism.

(edit to add) I'm done with this thread already. I've said my piece... and I forgot to bring my troll fighting sword.

and as usual "all roads lead to ROME"