Is it possible to Kill one's soul?

This is what I believe the word soul means.

Your soul is your ticket to eternity. Your soul is also your log, and in the end your whole complete destiny. The book of Revelation says that the soul can die, but it is only God who can kill it through his judgement. Gehenna or the Lake of Fire is the second death, known as the death of the soul. Gehenna or the Ben Hinnom valley was where they sacrificed children to Molok - one of the most meaningless and terrible a man can do. Molok was originally spelled Melek which means the "king", but was changed into Molok by changing the vocals to the same as in the Hebrew word for "shame". The word "hell" is simply a bad translation. Hell or Hel was the old goddes of the place of judgement of the gods in old Norse mythology. Hel was also the name of the very pit of fire where the bad gods were cast into. King James Version and many other modern translations interpret rather than translates. KJV calls She'ol or Hades (or the realm of death, "the unseen state") for Hell too, something that is very wrong. Passover even became Easter, Heylel became Lucifer, Adversary became devil and Seraph became beast in the pen of King James' clergymen, just to mention a few of the probably deliberate mis-translated words in bible of King James.

There is a Hebrew myth or story about Abraham, that Arch Gabriel rescued him from the place of fire, and Jude speeks about dragging people out of the fire in his epistle. So it is possible to get out of the fire, but you'll need someone good who loves you, regardless of your judgement and sin to do it. That day will be horrible

Blessings,
Mikromarius

Originally posted by quango

Originally posted by AF1
Definetly a possibility Magestica. Theoretically I guess God is the only one who could do it, since he was the one who created it.

I would say your soul is a PIECE of God, so only through the death of God could your soul be utterly destroyed. (which is not likely since he is eternal and outside of, and containing all life and all death and all cycles, etc. etc. etc.)

It can certainly be maimed, injured, etc. (your soul, i mean)

and I mean God with a capital, capitalG. Not God.

You're forgetting Jesus here. The Son of God Jesus is the one who shall judge between the quick and the dead after the Father has layed his enemies down before him like a footstool. Jesus acts like the right hand of God through this judgement. During the Peace Millennium that starts after the first judgement and ressurection (blessed be those of the first ressurection!) and ends with the Gog Magog war, the Father will have Sabbath, perhaps in order to do what he loves the most, his hobby, Creating new life. Satan is kept chained in prison throughout this Millennium and Jesus as the highest priest in Heaven is God, his Son will be the Millennium King, known as "him who overcomes" will be ruling with what can be translated an iron branch (robots?). Jesus did die you know. He was killed because they didn't recognice him. The reward of Jesus is therefore ressurection and forgiveness from sins, while the punnishment is to be totally erased and forgotten. Jesus is the King in Hades too, which keys he also holds. There is no darkness in him whatsoever. Therefore he came back to life and later ascended up in the sky to the Father, from where he will return atleast twise. In the second ressurection those whose names aren't written in the Book of Life is theus cast into the lake of fire and after that even Death and Hades is cast uppon the Lake of Fire. And there is a new Heaven and a new Earth and a golden city that is constructed like a cube five times the size of the Moon that descends down from Heaven from God, and God and his Lamb returns for good. Given there are several floors in that city, you can easily put the whole Earth inside it and the roof would be a perfect docking area for spacecrafts in low gravity.

Blessings,
Mikromarius

i definetly agree with you

There is one way to effectively kill your soul, in the sense that it might as well be dead.

Sell it.

I didnt mind reading everyone's posts because the answer is there.

Jesus said that someone call kill you but they can't kill your soul.

As ever, wading into Revelation is like selling pork chops wrapped in Haaretz in the middle of Riyadh.
But this seems a very reasonable avenue to pursue.
The �second death� is quite clear. It�s as literal as can be in the Greek: the usual word for �death�+ �thanatos�:�Ho thanatos ho deuteros� and it would be taking liberties with the text to claim that the text is saying anything other than than that the sinners literally die twice.
Everyone dies once: all are resurrected: the good are raised incorruptible and will die no more: the sinners die a second time in the lake of fire.
The customary references pertain:
Ephesians 2:1, 5; Colossians 2:13; 1 Timothy 5:6; 1 Peter 4:6;1 Corinthians 15:51-56, Revelation 20:5-6).

What isn�t clear is if the soul dies at this second death. It can be maintained that the soul endures an eternity in the flames. I can certainly see a case for this: there is full bodily resurrection of the good and their flesh is thereafter imperishable as well as their souls. The bad perish physically, a second time; but their equally eternal souls are forever separated from God and they roast for all eternity.

Great post Estragon, I concur totally with your conclusion. I too was unsure over the existance of the soul in the lake of fire and am inclined to believe that it does continue to exist even there .. possubly until the heat death of the universe.

Shows how important christianity is in life when death has such options...

Originally posted by mikromarius

You're forgetting Jesus here. The Son of God Jesus is the one who shall judge between the quick and the dead after the Father has layed his enemies down

I haven't forgotten Jesus. I truly hope the Lord Jesus is the one who is 'judging' on that Final Day. Jesus died for all of Mankind. ALL of Mankind.
He was the son of God. God was his father. Don't you think that God, having watched men kill his only Son, would be out for vengeance? How much more disrespect could man show to God then by killing His child? We know God is quite capable of vengeance and anger when he wants to be.
But this time Jesus said, No. No Vengeance. No more punishment. Forgive them, father. And if he wanted forgiveness for the men who killed him, Jesus will judge forgiveness for all. It is not possible to do something as terrible as killing the son of God. Even if it were, Jesus would forgive you as he forgave those who killed him.
Jesus has opened Heaven to all. For all are sinners before God. Forgiveness is not something to be begged for or demanded. It doesn't need to be asserted - it is a given. Jesus's philosophy is that of, Love your Enemy, forgive all. Not revenge, rewards and punishments.
No one deserves to burn for eternity and no one will. EVERYONE has been 'personally saved' already. If there is a Heaven, then even atheists will be there (if that's what they decide to do).

Originally posted by Estragon
As ever, wading into Revelation is like selling pork chops wrapped in Haaretz in the middle of Riyadh.
But this seems a very reasonable avenue to pursue.
The �second death� is quite clear. It�s as literal as can be in the Greek: the usual word for �death�+ �thanatos�:�Ho thanatos ho deuteros� and it would be taking liberties with the text to claim that the text is saying anything other than than that the sinners literally die twice.
Everyone dies once: all are resurrected: the good are raised incorruptible and will die no more: the sinners die a second time in the lake of fire.

1Cor 15:51 says that we shall not all die, but everyone shall be transformed

The customary references pertain:
Ephesians 2:1, 5; Colossians 2:13; 1 Timothy 5:6; 1 Peter 4:6;1 Corinthians 15:51-56, Revelation 20:5-6).

What isn�t clear is if the soul dies at this second death. It can be maintained that the soul endures an eternity in the flames. I can certainly see a case for this: there is full bodily resurrection of the good and their flesh is thereafter imperishable as well as their souls. The bad perish physically, a second time; but their equally eternal souls are forever separated from God and they roast for all eternity.

Wow. Suddenly found out that I've been on the wrong track here. I always believed that it said "...the second death, the death of the soul...", but now I see that I've been wrong. Please forgive me. Wonder where I got that from... Probably from an alternate source. Does anyone know where it says that the lake of fire means the death of the soul. I can't find it anywhere... Thanks for clearing this up Estragon. Do you know where it is said that the second death means the death of the soul? Where I may have picked this up? Quite confused right now...

Anyway, I went to 4th Ezra, one of the Apocrypha to the Tannakh. Below I've pasted a clip from a conversation between Ezra and the angelic messenger about death and the soul. Good read. You can find this book at www.hti.umich.edu...

Blessings,
Mikromarius

4th Ezra on death and the soul
From chapter 7:
[75] I answered and said, "If I have found favor in thy sight, O Lord, show this also to thy servant: whether after death, as soon as every one of us yields up his soul, we shall be kept in rest until those times come when thou wilt renew the creation, or whether we shall be tormented at once?"

[76] He answered me and said, "I will show you that also, but do not be associated with those who have shown scorn, nor number yourself among those who are tormented. [77] For you have a treasure of works laid up with the Most High; but it will not be shown to you until the last times. [78] Now, concerning death, the teaching is: When the decisive decree has gone forth from the Most High that a man shall die, as the spirit leaves the body to return again to him who gave it, first of all it adores the glory of the Most High. [79] And if it is one of those who have shown scorn and have not kept the way of the Most High, and who have despised his law, and who have hated those who fear God -- [80] such spirits shall not enter into habitations, but shall immediately wander about in torments, ever grieving and sad, in seven ways. [81] The first way, because they have scorned the law of the Most High. [82] The second way, because they cannot now make a good repentance that they may live. [83] The third way, they shall see the reward laid up for those who have trusted the covenants of the Most High. [84] The fourth way, they shall consider the torment laid up for themselves in the last days. [85] The fifth way, they shall see how the habitations of the others are guarded by angels in profound quiet. [86] The sixth way, they shall see how some of them will pass over into torments. [87] The seventh way, which is worse than all the ways that have been mentioned, because they shall utterly waste away in confusion and be consumed with shame, and shall wither with fear at seeing the glory of the Most High before whom they sinned while they were alive, and before whom they are to be judged in the last times.

[88] "Now this is the order of those who have kept the ways of the Most High, when they shall be separated from their mortal body. [89] During the time that they lived in it, they laboriously served the Most High, and withstood danger every hour, that they might keep the law of the Lawgiver perfectly. [90] Therefore this is the teaching concerning them: [91] First of all, they shall see with great joy the glory of him who receives them, for they shall have rest in seven orders. [92] The first order, because they have striven with great effort to overcome the evil thought which was formed with them, that it might not lead them astray from life into death. [93] The second order, because they see the perplexity in which the souls of the ungodly wander, and the punishment that awaits them. [94] The third order, they see the witness which he who formed them bears concerning them, that while they were alive they kept the law which was given them in trust. [95] The fourth order, they understand the rest which they now enjoy, being gathered into their chambers and guarded by angels in profound quiet, and the glory which awaits them in the last days. [96] The fifth order, they rejoice that they have now escaped what is corruptible, and shall inherit what is to come; and besides they see the straits and toil from which they have been delivered, and the spacious liberty which they are to receive and enjoy in immortality. [97] The sixth order, when it is shown to them how their face is to shine like the sun, and how they are to be made like the light of the stars, being incorruptible from then on. [98] The seventh order, which is greater than all that have been mentioned, because they shall rejoice with boldness, and shall be confident without confusion, and shall be glad without fear, for they hasten to behold the face of him whom they served in life and from whom they are to receive their reward when glorified. [99] This is the order of the souls of the righteous, as henceforth is announced; and the aforesaid are the ways of torment which those who would not give heed shall suffer hereafter."

[100] I answered and said, "Will time therefore be given to the souls, after they have been separated from the bodies, to see what you have described to me?"

[101] He said to me, "They shall have freedom for seven days, so that during these seven days they may see the things of which you have been told, and afterwards they shall be gathered in their habitations."

HOW ?

Originally posted by Nans DESMICHELS
HOW ?

I have to admit that I need to eat the grass here. I've always believed that Revelation said that the second death was the death of the soul. I've never really been comfortable with that though. I have to rearrange a couple of things in my head about this. Think a little. Seems like the soul is immortal, but it's eternal "dwelling" might be eternal punnishment. And that punnishment is eternal shame and rootlessness, eternal separation from God who is Love. Think about living a life without love. That would be a little worse than to live without music I guess... Sorry for bringing in confusion as to whether the soul can die or not. For it seems it can't die afterall. Again. Sorry. We learn as long as we live.

Blessings,
Mikromarius

Estragon very good on Greek: not too bad on Hebrew and the Semitic languages.
On "insight", he's down there with the rest of the boys. For what it's worth, my considered opinion is that the soul is forever immortal but the souls of the unsaved will suffer forever.
None of this is verifiable:you believe, or you don't.
On the other hand, even to mention "soul" probably means you've ( at least temporarily) left science behind.
Why? Why not?

Originally posted by mikromarius

Originally posted by Nans DESMICHELS
HOW ?

I have to admit that I need to eat the grass here. I've always believed that Revelation said that the second death was the death of the soul. I've never really been comfortable with that though. I have to rearrange a couple of things in my head about this. Think a little. Seems like the soul is immortal, but it's eternal "dwelling" might be eternal punnishment. And that punnishment is eternal shame and rootlessness, eternal separation from God who is Love. Think about living a life without love. That would be a little worse than to live without music I guess... Sorry for bringing in confusion as to whether the soul can die or not. For it seems it can't die afterall. Again. Sorry. We learn as long as we live.

Blessings,
Mikromarius

I used to compare second seath to the vampyre state :
They are still dead but they are damned to live for ever. But it's their choice, they let 'em seduce by the idea of living forever or the power of never die...

Originally posted by AF1
is it possible to kill one's soul?

Its not possible for 1, simple, reason.

There is no such thing as soul.



[Edited on 28-4-2003 by Liberator]

Originally posted by Liberator

Originally posted by AF1
is it possible to kill one's soul?

Its not possible for 1, simple, reason.

There is no such thing as soul.

[Edited on 28-4-2003 by Liberator]

~And what EXACTLY made you come to this conclusion? I'm definately curious about this one~
Magestica

can i copy and paste???

There's a great link on ''Death''' .............


People have always attempted to struggle with death. Sometimes, they have attempted to forget death's horror and terror.
At other times, they have turned to idealism and to other philosophic systems. But their despair, instead of diminishing, has continuously grown and increased to the point of asphyxiation.
Man has found no medicine to cure his agony and terror of death.

After what God said to Adam, "till you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken",
God proves His decision about death with the death of the righteous Abel. For the metastasis of Enoch indicates that this decision is temporary and that death will eventually be abolished (cf. Gen. 5,21-24. Heb. 11,5).
By taking Enoch, God notifies His creatures that the foundation of death is weak. He affirms: As sin is nourishment for death, so also is righteousness a "refutation" and a "disappearance" of death.


Ezekiel, prophesies: "Thy dead shall live, their bodies shall rise" (Is. 26,19). [The LXX text is much more explicit: "The dead shall be resurrected and those who are in the graves shall be raised up"].

Daniel multiplies the hopes of the resurrection with the following: "And many of those who sleep In the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt" (Dan. 12,2).
Also, the wise Solomon will confirm:
"But the souls of the righteous are in the hands of God, and no torment will ever touch them ... their hope is full of immortality" (Wis. Sol. 3,1;4)

orthodoxinfo.com...

Sorry for copy and paste..........

Estragon.........i might be in agreement with you ........

"THAT" was a good copy/paste
There are good ones and bad ones ya know?
Magestica

Originally posted by magestica
"THAT" was a good copy/paste

There are good ones and bad ones ya know?
Magestica

thanks.......Majestica.........

hmm...after life....questionable. i think when you die, that little part of your brain that is still alive is you dreaming....i think you dream, and eventually die. just....die. i think it would be kinda like one of those nihts where you are so tired you cant remember when you fell asleep, or what your last thought was, and the night goes by so fast that the next thing you know its time to wake up, no dreams or movements, its like..just total darkness. i think thats how death is in the end....but thats only assuming theres no such thing as a form of heaven, which is very questionable....

I believe the "soul" is existance and that can never be extinguished.

but your "individuality" however, is something that has crossed my mind as a possibility.

At some point we had to become individuals, being why I'm me and not some rest of existance such as you.

Now will that individuality last through the ages or one day return to "existance" and my path through my lives be indestinguishable from all the paths of all the lives?

Afterall the only thing that makes us individuals is what we've experienced.