BUSTED Easy Jet Airlines Caught Aersol Spraying in Europe., page 4

posted on Oct, 2 2011 @ 07:41 PM

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reply to post by Johnze

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

A lot of your trucks are marked with Jet-A because people are familiar with that label being jet fuel, but that does not mean they are actually carrying/pumping that.

The main difference between all your JET's and JP's is simply additives, and they will all work on all modern jets/turbo props. For example, you can put any of those fuels in a Navy fighter, and it will work, but the Navy wants JP5 for carrier ops for extra fire safety concerns. Now, Avgas is only for certain small prop aircraft, and is an entirely different substance.

I gave you a link above to a site listing the additives for each type of fuel, if you want further info on the subject, then simply do a Google search, its not any type of classified info or anything.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

Aloysius the Gaul

posted on Oct, 2 2011 @ 07:43 PM

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reply to post by Johnze

Indeed - in my experience fuel farms at airports and ports are just storage.

They may have limited ability to affect the composition of fuel - eg if you check the Stadis 450 reference you'll see it starts at 3 ppm, but can be increased to 5ppm if it degenerates - I'd think they might be able to add that sort of thing if they had to, but they didn't have chemists on staff to do so - they were just "truck drivers" & a few supervisors & managers.

Human_Alien

posted on Oct, 2 2011 @ 07:45 PM

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reply to post by defcon5

Okay. I can't speak for everyone but I get it. I realize the fuel has changed. I also realize there is more air traffic. I totally get that and have allowed for that. I am not that dense.

But contrails have always been, right. Then how come I have YET to see 6 to 8 airplanes at the same time (because after all, there's more traffic up there) leaving contrails??? Never have I seen that.

But YET, I have seen 6 to 8 planes, all at the same time, leaving, loooooooooooooooooooooooooong lasting trails though.

How are those odds even possible??

I mean, let's take Occams Razor, Murphy's Law and Serendipity all at the same time. What are the odds of that occurring? By 'that' I mean, the ONLY time I see 6 or more planes are when they are criss crossing the skies and leaving these long lasting lingering trails.

The odds of seeing 6 planes at relatively the same altitude is rare in itself (and I am NOT talking about airport traffic. I am talking about cruising altitude and well-established flights already underway). I understand and grasp the 'flight paths' too.

So that should mean, every Tuesday at around the same time, I should see roughly the same 6-8 planes....give or take.
That is NOT what happens when I see these groups of planes which just so HAPPEN to be leaving 'trails'.

The odds of seeing more than 3 planes at the same time, at the same altitude over the Atlantic Ocean, is rare enough but then couple that to having the optimum weather conditions that makes it possible for their contrails to linger for over 25 minutes is not favorable at all.

I don't think government officials and high ranking public figures would be wanting an investigation into this matter if they were told (and proved) these are just plain 'ol contrails and we're not understanding the science.

So please, I am not an idiot. I may not know airline mechanics or atmospheric science but please stop showing me this elephant and trying to convince me it's a mouse. This topic has been the bane of my existence for years now.

Johnze

posted on Oct, 2 2011 @ 07:46 PM

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reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

I just find it odd, i work with jet, specificaly JET-A1 every day, i dont call it Kero for no reason. I may aswell call it crushd up dinosaurs.

Aloysius the Gaul

posted on Oct, 2 2011 @ 07:46 PM

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Originally posted by defcon5
reply to post by Johnze

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

The main difference between all your JET's and JP's is simply additives, and they will all work on all modern jets/turbo props. For example, you can put any of those fuels in a Navy fighter, and it will work, but the Navy wants JP5 for carrier ops for extra fire safety concerns. Now, Avgas is only for certain small prop aircraft, and is an entirely different substance.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

the last a/c type I worked on personally was BAe-146's, with ALF engines - the engine fuel contraols had "settings" for petrol, kerosene, JetA1 and diesel IIRC!

We occasinally got incorrect parts for them that were for M1 Abrahms battle tanks - because the engine core was pretty much the same, and we thought that the various fuel settings were probably for that version of the engine - they were just marks on a casing & we couldn't actually do anything with them or the lever that they might have applied to.

Johnze

posted on Oct, 2 2011 @ 07:52 PM

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reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

Hmmm dunno man, if they started adding anything like staddis, they would need it re sampled and sent back to a lab, Jet goes for a about a 1,000 dollars a cube. Ships do this often with dopin operations on board, half the time the vessel shows up in another country with an off spec cargo because it no longer matches up with the COQ from the refinery it loaded at. By and large JET is made to order at the refinery so theres nothing else to be done with it.

edit on 2-10-2011 by Johnze because: (no reason given)

Aloysius the Gaul

posted on Oct, 2 2011 @ 08:01 PM

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Originally posted by Human_Alien
reply to post by defcon5

But contrails have always been, right. Then how come I have YET to see 6 to 8 airplanes at the same time (because after all, there's more traffic up there) leaving contrails??? Never have I seen that.

But YET, I have seen 6 to 8 planes, all at the same time, leaving, loooooooooooooooooooooooooong lasting trails though.

How are those odds even possible??

Hang on - you've never seen 6-8 aircraft leaving contrails, but you've seen 6-8 aircraft leaving loooo.....ng contrails?

I'm confused - either you've seen it happening or not??

I mean, let's take Occams Razor, Murphy's Law and Serendipity all at the same time. What are the odds of that occurring? By 'that' I mean, the ONLY time I see 6 or more planes are when they are criss crossing the skies and leaving these long lasting lingering trails.

The odds of seeing 6 planes at relatively the same altitude is rare in itself (and I am NOT talking about airport traffic. I am talking about cruising altitude and well-established flights already underway). I understand and grasp the 'flight paths' too.

Well no - the odds of seeing a lot of a/c at similar heights are very good indeed - if you are in the USA I sugggest you have a look here - flightaware.com... & check out how many a/c are in the air - this site for the USA takes flight plan info as wel la s transponder info so (I think) covers all IFR traffic in the USA and Canada.

there are a lot of a/c in the air!

So that should mean, every Tuesday at around the same time, I should see roughly the same 6-8 planes....give or take.
That is NOT what happens when I see these groups of planes which just so HAPPEN to be leaving 'trails'.

The odds of seeing more than 3 planes at the same time, at the same altitude over the Atlantic Ocean, is rare enough but then couple that to having the optimum weather conditions that makes it possible for their contrails to linger for over 25 minutes is not favorable at all.

What are those odds?

If the conditions are favourable over a sizeable section of sky then I see nothing particularly strange about it.

IIRC normal seperation in international flight is 10 miles - at 550 mph that's about 1 minute apart

I don't think government officials and high ranking public figures would be wanting an investigation into this matter if they were told (and proved) these are just plain 'ol contrails and we're not understanding the science.

So please, I am not an idiot. I may not know airline mechanics or atmospheric science but please stop showing me this elephant and trying to convince me it's a mouse. This topic has been the bane of my existence for years now.

You admit that you do not know atmospheric physics and airline mechanics - so wouldn't it be a good place to start getting a better idea of those?? I don't see how you can possibly state that these do not explain what you see if yuo do not understand them!

At het very elast - I urge you to look at the Flight aware site above and get a better idea of how many a/c there are around. FYI if you click on a flight you get some info - the fligth number, type of a/c on the 1st line, speed (knots??) and altitude on the 2nd line, and departure and destination airport omn the 3rd.

Another site is Flight Tracker - www.flightradar24.com...

This one is a bit more limited, because it has only info from aircraft with ADSB fitted, and that's still not all of them - it has a list of common types that do and don't have it in one of the pages. Also it depends upon people setting up their own ADSB receivers and linking the into to the site voluntarily - so there's no info from the middle of the Atlantic or any other ocean.....unless someone has one on an island or a boat there!

But for the flights it does show there is a lot more inforamtion, and IMO the interface is easier to use. It also gets used by chemmies worldwide to identify flights such as this lady in New Zealand who has also written to the local authorities about it.

edit on 2-10-2011 by Aloysius the Gaul because: just my usual crappy typing

defcon5

posted on Oct, 2 2011 @ 08:09 PM

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Here, buy and test all the fuel additives you want:
www.aircraftspruce.com...
Prist, is on of the most common aviation fuel additives in use.

Like I said, aviation fuel is not some big “top secret” conspiracy. You can buy it yourself and test it. You can buy all the additives you want and test them as well. You probably won't be able to get fuel from a big airport directly unless you know someone there, because they don't deal in small quantities as its not worth their effort, but you can get the exact same gas (most likely even came from the same tank farm) from your local private airport. Believe me, there is nothing unusual about the gas.

Aviation fuel is probably one of the best maintained, most monitored, and most filtered fuels out there. The tank farm has millions of dollars in fuel invested in each one of those tanks, and aviation fuel can become contaminated very easily. Tanks tend to condense water on the inside, which lays on the top of the fuel and grows both bacteria and fungus. The fuel is constantly monitored, and sumped for this reason. The planes themselves have to be sumped on a regular basis, as well as the fuel trucks. The fuel passes through at least two different filters when being pumped through the truck, and then its filtered again by the engine itself.

No one is going to tell a private company that they have to contaminate millions of dollars investment, when the airlines themselves can then refuse to take on their fuel. Aircraft are not required to ever fuel at any one station, they can carry enough gas to station-hop without fueling until they get to the station of their choice. Our station was one of the most popular fueling points, because we were located at one of the two fuel ports in the state, making our gas some of the cheapest in the area. We supplied over half the other airports in the state with their gas as well. So believe me when I tell you that the gas at your local private airport comes from the same source as the big commercial airports.

Johnze

posted on Oct, 2 2011 @ 08:19 PM

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reply to post by defcon5

Water floats on the top of your jet?

Aloysius the Gaul

posted on Oct, 2 2011 @ 08:30 PM

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reply to post by Johnze

Yeah - well my point is that if they could do anything at he farms, it would be something relatively simple, like perhaps measuring the static resistance and upgrading ........just supposition on my part that it would be that - my point was I'm essentially agreeing with you - the farms do nto do anything serious, if at all.

Edit:

Originally posted by Johnze
reply to post by defcon5

Water floats on the top of your jet?

I suspect he mis-typed......

edit on 2-10-2011 by Aloysius the Gaul because: (no reason given)

Johnze

posted on Oct, 2 2011 @ 08:32 PM

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reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

Aye i know, some of those tank farms are a joke to be honest. Just didnt want to lend to much credence to the fact, anyone could pretty much do anything to them if they really wanted lol.

edit on 2-10-2011 by Johnze because: (no reason given)

defcon5

posted on Oct, 2 2011 @ 08:40 PM

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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

Originally posted by Human_Alien
Okay. I can't speak for everyone but I get it. I realize the fuel has changed. I also realize there is more air traffic. I totally get that and have allowed for that. I am not that dense.

The fuel has not changed, the engines have changed.

Originally posted by Human_Alien
But contrails have always been, right. Then how come I have YET to see 6 to 8 airplanes at the same time (because after all, there's more traffic up there) leaving contrails??? Never have I seen that.

But YET, I have seen 6 to 8 planes, all at the same time, leaving, loooooooooooooooooooooooooong lasting trails though.

You see aircraft at the same time because aircraft tend to fly in flight banks. A flight bank is how airports coordinate you being able to switch planes with minimal wait between flights. At my station, we would send out our morning RON flights, then sit around for about two hours until the next flight bank would come in. Not all aircraft fly at exactly the same time, mind you, but they are clustered into those groups so you can get off one and get right on the next with minimal wait.

They leave those patterns in the sky because they fly on Jet routes, or Jetways, These are basically the same as Victor Airways but are meant for commercial aircraft. Its also not possible to tell from the ground, but they are normally separated by several thousand feet, causing some to leave persistent contrails, while others leave short contrails, or even none at all. Things such as thermal updrafts, downdrafts, turbulence, etc, can cause the funny effects you see in contrails such as the appearance that they suddenly stop and start again.

Originally posted by Human_Alien
So that should mean, every Tuesday at around the same time, I should see roughly the same 6-8 planes....give or take.
That is NOT what happens when I see these groups of planes which just so HAPPEN to be leaving 'trails'.

First off, you're most likely not going to notice an aircraft that is flying at 30K feet if its not making a contrail, because unless the sun hits it just right, its a tiny spec in the sky.

More importantly though, aviation is an extremely efficient business. It has to be because of the overhead cost of operations. They calculate exactly what their flight schedule is going to be based on statistics of how many people fly each day of the week, during each season of the year, and they base their schedule on that. Its not like a train station where the same train comes through, at the same time, year round, no matter if its empty or full. So some days you will have very busy skies, and others you won't.

You also have to take Air traffic Control into account. They route planes according to weather, and what pattern they use for that day. Due to things like noise abatement, wind, turbulence, rain, visibility, runway construction/repairs, and other traffic considerations, they route accordingly.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

defcon5

posted on Oct, 2 2011 @ 08:43 PM

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Originally posted by Johnze
Water floats on the top of your jet?

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

Water, which condenses in the fuel tanks, floats on top of the fuel. This in turn becomes stagnant, grows bacteria and fungus, unless its sumped on a regular basis to drain it off.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

edit on 10/2/2011 by defcon5 because: (no reason given)

Aloysius the Gaul

posted on Oct, 2 2011 @ 08:47 PM

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reply to post by defcon5

Err.....no.......the fuel floats on top of the water...whether it condenses in the tanks, or comes in with the fuel - the fuel is lighter.

and bugs grow in it regardless - indeed some grow in the fuel itself too don't they? We never had that problem much here - but I certainly performed my fair share of fuel drains and water checks!

defcon5

posted on Oct, 2 2011 @ 08:51 PM

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reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

Okay, you might be right because we sumped off the bottom of the tank. Either way though, it separates from the gas and forms its own layer inside the tank.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

Aloysius the Gaul

posted on Oct, 2 2011 @ 08:56 PM

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reply to post by defcon5

Yes - the water sinks ot the bottom - hence water drains in the sumps and apprentices getting showered in stinking water & kerosene...er...jet fuel...until they get their technique right!

defcon5

posted on Oct, 2 2011 @ 09:02 PM

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reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

I once dumped my entire 6inch ground attach hose all over myself while trying to get it back on the spool. Nothing sucks worse then walking around for 8 hours with JP sloshing in your boots. Makes your skin itch.

Funnier though, was when the cabin service guys would get the doughnut in wrong and take a blue shower.

MathiasAndrew

posted on Oct, 2 2011 @ 09:25 PM

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reply to post by Human_Alien

I'm glad you posted this. I saw this a day or two ago and was thinking about making a thread on it.

We're gonna catch these bast@rds slipping. Keeping looking up.

S&F OP

EDIT:

Here's a new photo that's been circulating the chemtrail sites

Could be a fuel dump, but it could easily be a chem-dump. I would think that if they want to dump fuel they would need to do it a lot quicker than that small nozzle.

edit on 2-10-2011 by MathiasAndrew because: add pic

luxordelphi

posted on Oct, 2 2011 @ 09:28 PM

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Whew!!! I'm glad we got that which floats on which - water or fuel - thing straightened out although it was touch and go for awhile. I was thinking maybe there was a tie-in with the new physics i.e. the speed of light and all but I'm glad things are back to normal for the non anyway. Did look up aerotoxic syndrome cases and seems like except for the one in 1977, they all started in the late 90's. With the recent court case or side court case in Australia being won maybe some real test data will spring forth. Also they won it based on respiratory impact having been able to show cause and affect through some specialized agency there in Australia that actually seems concerned. Maybe that's a way to go other places, not just the respiratory but whatever there is a specialized interest in.

Aloysius the Gaul

posted on Oct, 2 2011 @ 09:54 PM

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reply to post by luxordelphi

Aerotoxic didn't start in the mid 1990's although perhaps more serious research into it did - the airline I worked for got brand new BAe 146's in 1989 and immediately started getting "blue haze" from burned Jet Oil II in the cabin - they were still looking for a fix when I left in 1994, although an upgraded APU had cut down the instances - apparently the earlier APU had a seal that was prone to failure & letting the oil into the aircon ducting.

There were lots of complaints about the smell, people feeling ill, etc.

As for faster than light, did you hear the one about the Barman who said "We don't serve neutrino's here"...and then a neutrino walked into the bar....