The True History of Arab and Israelie Conflict before 1948 to Today - Video

This is a brilliant video outlining the history of the Arab and Isralli conflict before 1948 to present. For those who are confused about the current set of events, this video stands as a concise clarification of events leading to our present situation. Feel free to dispute the facts presented, but back your claims up with credible sources. Please leave the bias at the door and speak from context and evidence if you have a contradiction. Simply saying it is so does not make it so. History is readily available form the web so please include links. From my own perspective, I am old enough to remember these events as presented in the video.

Amazing video...

The beginning is the most poignant part

Palestine - which was originally Jordan and present day Israel(plus westbank, gaza) - had a population of around 1 million, 10% of which was Jewish.

This is absolutely true and is supported by the physical evidence; Ottoman and British population demographics.

This can all be read in "from time immemorial" by Joan Peters. Dont bother reading "reviews", because theyre always tinged by bias. READ THE BOOK and assess the information therein for yourselves.

reply to post by SuperiorEd

Feel free to dispute the facts presented, but back your claims up with credible sources. Please leave the bias at the door and speak from context and evidence if you have a contradiction. Simply saying it is so does not make it so.

Please note that your video, regardless of content, has not been blessed by the eternal high priestess of absolute truth. Also do please note that by framing your OP so that you claim the only available truth, you eliminate a position of even accepting the possibility of being wrong... and last I looked, none of us have that lofty right.

It's your OP and you can do with it you please... but I personally don't see any sense in partaking of a subject where someone has perched themselves above redress.

Besides all that, the two peoples in question do go back further than 1948... by several millennia.

Best to you nonetheless.

I'm surprised that no one is questioning this history. Pretty soon we'll just have to conclude that the members of ATS accept this as truth and we won't have to fight over Arab-Israeli history again.

Nice work finding that video, and my compliments to the video itself.

As an aside, another thread has been started to discuss the truth of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. I don't know why its not in the hoax bin, but it does serve to indicate the low level that Mid-East conversation has fallen to.

This video is so complete, there is nothing left to say.

Of course, those who disagree with it do so because they suspect Zionist 'bias', and yet they could never prove such a bias from physical facts of history.

In other words, history bears testimony to the truth and justice of the Jewish people in Israel.

Not only did they arrive in the late 19th century with civility and dignity, even creating jobs for the local Arab populations (not intended for them, but taken nonetheless), but the story of the Jewish people is a marr on the history of all Middle Eastern and European peoples. What our forefathers have done to them is not right. For the various histories, you can read "constantines sword", or "Dhimmitude".

The deeper you go into it, theologically, the more it becomes clear what kind of people perpetuate this injustice against the Jews. This group i like to call "the Gnostic Elite".

reply to post by dontreally

This video is so complete, there is nothing left to say. Of course, those who disagree with it do so because they suspect Zionist 'bias', and yet they could never prove such a bias from physical facts of history.

Wow. I may or may not agree with the contents of the video but... what's the point?

This has really gotten distasteful. There's no effort to say that this video has what the author or commenter sees as truth and that we should watch it because we may find some useful info. There's just this thing that the video is perfect.

That's not how you deny ignorance. That's how you stuff doctrine down someone's throat and hold a baseball bat over their heads to make sure they can't puke it back up!

I'm not sure, redoubt, that the OP and you are communicating completely.

I didn't get the impression that he was claiming that the video was either complete or perfect. How did you get that impression?

Don't you think that he was just presenting a video with key facts about the situation and then asking if there is any dispute as to the accuracy of those facts? I would certainly like to know where the video goes wrong and I suspect others would too.

The point to your disagreeing with it is to show people like me what the true facts are. As far as doctrine, I'm not sure what "doctrine" is being pushed, but I'd like to know that too.

reply to post by SuperiorEd


What a fantastic video!

The history of the Arab-Israeli conflict is certainly not light bed time reading, though this video gives a concise and historically accurate account. I usually suspect a lot of my respected foes on this forum to have not brushed up on this history, now they have no excuse. It does omit some of the latter important conflicts, though for anyone that wishes to shout the usual "they deserve it because they stole their land from them" this is indeed a great crash course on the background of the conflict with focus on the land dispute.


S&F


Regards, Skellon.

Originally posted by dontreally
This video is so complete, there is nothing left to say.

Of course, those who disagree with it do so because they suspect Zionist 'bias', and yet they could never prove such a bias from physical facts of history.

In other words, history bears testimony to the truth and justice of the Jewish people in Israel.

Not only did they arrive in the late 19th century with civility and dignity, even creating jobs for the local Arab populations (not intended for them, but taken nonetheless), but the story of the Jewish people is a marr on the history of all Middle Eastern and European peoples. What our forefathers have done to them is not right. For the various histories, you can read "constantines sword", or "Dhimmitude".

The deeper you go into it, theologically, the more it becomes clear what kind of people perpetuate this injustice against the Jews. This group i like to call "the Gnostic Elite".

Wow. Very powerful post in few words. Thank you. I was going to reply to several posts until I see that you have cleared the path with clear vision.

Originally posted by redoubt
reply to post by dontreally

 

This video is so complete, there is nothing left to say. Of course, those who disagree with it do so because they suspect Zionist 'bias', and yet they could never prove such a bias from physical facts of history.

Wow. I may or may not agree with the contents of the video but... what's the point?

This has really gotten distasteful. There's no effort to say that this video has what the author or commenter sees as truth and that we should watch it because we may find some useful info. There's just this thing that the video is perfect.

That's not how you deny ignorance. That's how you stuff doctrine down someone's throat and hold a baseball bat over their heads to make sure they can't puke it back up!

To deny ignorance, you must speak for the other person in the manner in which they should be speaking for themselves. If you would like to deny any fact in the video, provide context toward your bias against the content. This will allow us all to research and learn.

Originally posted by charles1952
I'm not sure, redoubt, that the OP and you are communicating completely.

I didn't get the impression that he was claiming that the video was either complete or perfect. How did you get that impression?

Don't you think that he was just presenting a video with key facts about the situation and then asking if there is any dispute as to the accuracy of those facts? I would certainly like to know where the video goes wrong and I suspect others would too.

The point to your disagreeing with it is to show people like me what the true facts are. As far as doctrine, I'm not sure what "doctrine" is being pushed, but I'd like to know that too.

Yes. I have lived from the standpoint of watching these events on the news and reading about them on the Jerusalem Post for many years. The video seemed like complete honesty to me and I am eager to hear anyone provide evidence of errors. I am not aware of any from my own perspective. This does not mean my perspective is the totality of truth. It is what it is. Thank you for a great post.

ok going back to the beginings, i don't care for politics, but i know that people in palestine lived in peace proior to the Zionist state of Israel, jews lived along with muslims and christians and other religions, i am originally palestinian by the way, my father was born in palestine in 1935, his father and grand father ...etc all were palestinians and born in palestine, among the things that i heard from my father, my grand father was muslim and most of his friends were jewish, my father told me how they used to come to visit my grand father and usually spend some days in his house, i mean jews like muslims like christians all lived in palestine as one family.

the truth is some greedy wealthy europian jewish indivduals wanted to establish the state of israel, they claimed they wanted a national country for the jews, why? did the jews of the middle east ever complained? britians suggested Uganda in africa but those zionists insissted they wanted jerusalem/palestine, does anyone mention that they offered the ottoman ruler to buy jerusalem but he refused, that was before britain came into the scene in palestine/jordan, that gives us an idea who these people were, very wealthy people. business men with an agenda, promised land?! give me a break

israel was meant to be here by the elites, the whole area called middle east is unstable and the main reason for that is Israel, Israel set the whole region on fire, Eygpt, Jordan, Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, War needs Arms you know. why bin ladin (regardless of him being real of fake) done 9/11, well one of the reasons he mentioned was because he was mad at USA for not being fair to the palestinians, America invaded afganistan, one of the reasons why America invaded Iraq is the security of Israel, why Iran is evil and might be invaided? the security of Isreal, isn't it more than obivious that the whole Middle East is unstable because of Isreal, imagine the region without Israel.

i have nothing against jews, i know there are jews who reject the state of Israel, i am all against Zionists, and i don't mean by that Israeli people who were decived by the "promised land" no. i mean the Zionist elites, some of them are not even jews.


the question to me is not the history of the conflict but "What is Israel"?

reply to post by redoubt


So if i were to say "i know so and sos stats from this year" with complete certainty. And i also mentioned other 'facts' about this person, would this be me stuffing "doctrine" down your throat???

Instead of complaining about our certainty, go, point by point, and explain, where the video was wrong.

You cant. You are so dumbfounded by our certainty because this issue really IS white and black.

Undoubtedly, Israel has some done some stupid things in their history, but how they were formed, for what reasons, and what was agreed upon originally, it can b seen that Israel has been backstabbed many times.

In the original mandate area Jews were 10% of the Palestinian population. Then Jordan was split off an given to a Saudi prince. Instead of all the Aabs going and staying in that land. No, the British revised the original balfour declaration and said the Jews can only settle in the western palestine. Eventually, that was reduced to the northwestern corner of Israel.

This was a TINY piece of what was originally promised to them by the British. Did the Arabs give the Jews this sliver of land?? No. As we know, they attacked the Jews and lost land (This BTW is the risk of war).

After this Arab attack and loss. 650,000 or so Arab Palestinians had nowhere to go. Instead of the Arabs establishing a state in the lands they controlled (westbank, by Jordan, Gaza, By Egypt) what do these sneaks do? Nothing. They put the Arab Palestinians in refugee camps and then blames Israel for it. What kind of nonsense is that? This is the basic logic. Someone attacks me, i end up getting the upper hand and taking his land. His people are displaced and he blames me.

In any normal situation, anyone would say "its your fault". Is someone hits you and ends up breaking his wrist, whos fault is it? Is he going to blame me for having a hard face?? Israel defended itself and acted as any rational nation would. They defended, pushed the enemy back, and by the end of it all, Israel had more land. They had every right, as all nations do, to annex the land they gained.

Now, 65 years later, the world is libeling and reviling Israel for its 'sins' and the 'occuptation'... When the occupation in the wstbank is perfectly fair and rational.

The enemies of Israel - people who shoul be seen for what they are - have never had the intention of making peace with a Jewish state. The very concept - they are not at peace with it. They will not even lie or feign agreement, just to show how much they despise the idea.

And yet the Jews are being exhorted, "make concessions". Do people not understand that every concession ever made by Israel to Arabs has ended up hurting them? They left lebanon and hizballah shoots rockets at Israels northern towns. They leave gush Katif, and they go there "set up shop" and start shooting missile at Israels southern towns.

Can the international community really ask Israel to commit suicide? If you were an israeli, would you do it? Given the information above and the risk? This is life or death. Clearly, Islamic terrorists do not care about the people they murder.

Direct and clear.

reply to post by SuperiorEd


It started in the womb with Jacob and Esau. The Jews are the decendents of Jacob and the palestinians are decendents of Esau.

All Scripture relates is that Jacob and Esau began to struggle (Gen. 25:22) with each other inside the womb. The NIV uses the word "jostled". Whatever this meant, it was clearly more than just normal fetal movement. Rebekah felt it intensely, and became concerned about it. Consequently, she "went to inquire of the Lord".

Verse 23 provides God's response to Rebekah concerning Jacob and Esau.

"And the Lord said unto her, 'Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger."

Scripture tells us God knows each individual even before they are conceived. In this instance, God foresaw Jacob would end up being more fit to deliver and transmit "the seed of the woman" to the world than Esau would be. Though they were to be twin brothers, Jacob and Esau would possess very different personalities.

The Birth of Jacob and Esau - Genesis 25:24-26

The birth of Jacob and Esau involved a physical struggle between the two newborn baby brothers.

" And when her days to be delivered were fulfilled, behold, there were twins in her womb. And the first came out red, all over like a hairy garment; and they called his name Esau. And after that came his brother out, and his hand took hold on Esau's heel; and his name was called Jacob; and Isaac was threescore years old when she bare them."

The struggle which had begun inside the womb, was carried outside as Jacob and Esau were born. This would foreshadow the struggle which would consume much of their lives. This struggle would also manifest itself in the respective countries of Jacob and Esau; Israel and Edom.

Why Israel can't withdraw to its pre '67 borders line.

reply to post by kwell


LINK

The Bible is the source. Another aspect of this may not be apparent to the average Muslim. Jesus is their messenger. His message as the messenger is very clear: Love God and love your neighbor--even enemies (Luke 10). The Qur'an is a book of judgment for the unbeliever. Muslims say they believe in God but do not take his name (Character) into their actions. In the Bible, this is taking the God's name in vain. In the Bible, a name is the character of the one named. Since God has a character of love (verify this in nature) and Jesus (Messenger of the Muslims) stated that we must love our neighbors as ourselves, Muslims either take on this character or they take the Lord's name in vain. They say they represent God without the character to represent God's name. Are all Muslims in this position? No, just as all Hebrews and Christians are not faithful to their beliefs. Man is sinful. In the Muslim world, there are many beautiful and faithful believers in God. Faith in God is not restricted to a religion. Works of the Spirit of God, however, are a byproduct of one's faith.

This goes even deeper. Since Issac and Ishmael are brothers form the common clan of Abraham, they are family. In God's view, family is the centerpiece of creation. God values family above all else in creation. Going against a brother is going against God Himself.

Where does this leave those who seek to steal, kill and destroy in the name (character) of God?

Read the Qur'an to know what happens to the unbeliever who misrepresents God. It is outlined in clearly written language. God will not be mocked. If you abuse your own family, you will suffer the judgment of God. Clearly, Israel has always stood for honor, long-suffering and the protection of those who cling to the fruits of God's character. Another aspect of Israel is the defense of the same.

Two sides to this conflict. Steal, kill and destroy. Love, honor and protect. Can we assign the name and character of a loving God to one of these sides? Which nations represent the name well?

reply to post by SuperiorEd

This goes even deeper. Since Issac and Ishmael are brothers form the common clan of Abraham, they are family. In God's view, family is the centerpiece of creation. God values family above all else in creation. Going against a brother is going against God Himself.

I quote myself and reply to expand what I said about Abraham. He was formally called Abram. The Hebrew letter 'Hey' for Abraham would have been from his common language of early Hebrew (Pheonician). The pictograph for 'Hey' is the man with his arms outstretched to God in faith. When Abram was asked to sacrifice Issac, this was done as an act of obedience. Abram was willing to give what mattered most to Himself to please God. He loved Issac as much as he loved himself (Golden Rule). Yet, he was willing to please God, even if it meant giving up what he loved most about the world. God provided the sacrificial replacement and stopped him before killing his son. Issac was spared and a replacement was given. This is faith. Faith requires us to trust God in all situations, even if we see it another way. The 'Hey' was added to Abram and Sari for God to show the character of each in their names. God is in the name of each because of their faith and love for his leading.

Which nations do we see displaying this faith to God? Who do the nations trust? God, money, pride, anger, bias, prejudice, envy? Who shows willingness to serve rather than be served? God is about love and not hate.

Hate is a negative. Hate cannot dispel hate. Violence cannot dispel violence. Negatives added make more negative. Negatives multiplied make a positive as debt is transferred. We are ALL sinners. Jesus died on a cross to make this negative pay the negative for our sin. Two negatives make the final positive of forgiveness. When the nations find this answer, debts are removed and peace follows. The Mathematics of Forgiveness

Originally posted by SuperiorEd

Why Israel can't withdraw to its pre '67 borders line.

very very strange indeed !

With all those rockets and weapons being smuggled in from those tunnels (1:22 on the video),
the video mentions terrorists coming in through the Philidelphi Corridor too !!!!

Makes you wonder if "Palestinians" are really causing the problems in the first place ?

Any intelligent person must conclude that Israel keeps the tunnels open for a reason.

I always wondered WHY Israel has not bombed those tunnels shut with all the "attacks" ????

why not cut the head and the tail off the snake ??

seems there is a hidden agenda with the tunnels.

mafia protection and profit maybe ... Hmmmm.

the black market keeps the prices high.

wake up !

and, what is Israel's "official" reasons for not wanting a Palestine State....
never have heard a genuine response from an Israeli leader on that question.
I wonder if its all a diversionary agenda?

Originally posted by xuenchen

very very strange indeed !

With all those rockets and weapons being smuggled in from those tunnels (1:22 on the video),
the video mentions terrorists coming in through the Philidelphi Corridor too !!!!

Makes you wonder if "Palestinians" are really causing the problems in the first place ?

Any intelligent person must conclude that Israel keeps the tunnels open for a reason.

I always wondered WHY Israel has not bombed those tunnels shut with all the "attacks" ????

why not cut the head and the tail off the snake ??

seems there is a hidden agenda with the tunnels.

mafia protection and profit maybe ... Hmmmm.

the black market keeps the prices high.

wake up !

and, what is Israel's "official" reasons for not wanting a Palestine State....
never have heard a genuine response from an Israeli leader on that question.
I wonder if its all a diversionary agenda?

There are several assumptions you are making that are in error. First, The Philadelphi Route refers to a narrow strip of land, 14 km in length, situated along the border between Gaza Strip and Egypt. Second, rockets hurt and are unpredictable. Doubtful any nation with family will allow rockets to enter a border state if it can be stopped. Third, Israel desires peace and a Palestinian state. LINK Abbas has clearly stated that he demands a Palestinian state but will not recognize Israel's right to even exist. Where are you getting your information? The video in the OP clearly outlines each of the opportunities for a state that the Palestinian's have refused.

Divide and conquer, as you reference, is the work of those who seek to steal, kill and destroy. The opposite of this tactic is to preserve, defend, honor and actively seek peace. Can you identify the difference? One is not like the other. Go back and watch the videos and then identify the character of each party concerned.