The All-INCLUSIVE Love of Christ!

Just made this post over in the Evolution vs. Creationist Forum (or whatever it's called). It's as good a start for this discussion as any.

reply to post by Daedal

 

I can't speak for him, but I know this - unless Christianity learns how to embrace the love of Jesus Christ as all-inclusive, and realize that Jesus himself said that people won't be able to point in any particular direction at his return and say "there he is!", then Christianity itself, as a doctrine, will become a house divided against itself, by dividing itself against the larger humanity within which it is emersed, and relative to which it is SUPPOSED to be loving, and love to be love, after all, must be freely received, and freely given as it was freely recieved. The LOVE of Christ, not the doctrine, must rule, for Christ himself to rule over the all, which he does, as LOVE. Until Christians can get that through their thick sculls, they will be working at ODDS AGAINST the return of Christ as a spiritiual reality (as a new heaven and a new earth aka a new age), and not as in preparation (like a Bride to be), but as a stumbling block, as an obstacle, even as an upturned spear! We MUST learn how to recieve the love of the Lord, and extend it, without having to neccessarily win converts to a DOCTRINE of Christianity, which violates the principal and tenet of Christian love to begin with!
Did he not say "forgive them father for they know not what they do" in relataion to self righteous Jewish elite and the Roman soldiers surrounding his very cross?!
Christian love is NOT CONDITIONAL!
We must get this through our Christian minds, and kick the devil OUT of those minds, who LOVES the doctrine of exclusivity... we must THINK, as Christ thinks, not as men or demons think! For the love of GOD!

As a Christian - Christianity, as an EXCLUSIVE club, is not the type of club I want to belong to!

Jesus was obviously speaking from a point of spiritual realization when he said that to come to the father we must go through him and him alone ie: by his LOVE, and understanding.

Such idiots we are and have been - I blame the Pope and American Christian Conservative Fundamentalist Literalism for this outrage against the all-inclusive love, of Jesus Christ.

Let's get this debate started. It's time. I'm mad at my numbscull Christian brothers and sisters, very mad.

Will come back tomorrow, I'm not in a good frame of mind right now, because this issue makes me break down in tears one minute, and then go into a rage the next.

What exactly are we discussing?

The complete lies that Jesus told his disciples?

Or the stupidity of those that think a man in the sky will come down and save them if they believe?

"BeLIEVE, what we beLIEVE, or you will go to HELL!"

"CONFESSSSS Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, or we will turn this rack another notch, to pull your limbs from their very sockets!"...

You know, there's just something about that approach, which robs Christian love AS love, and the Chrisian invitation as the love of Jesus Christ who was/is love personified.

Think carefully, please, I beg of you, before replying to this thread. Of course the atheists and the unbelievers will jump all over this, and taunt you with it - don't take the bait if you can reSIST...

reply to post by isthisreallife


neither.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


I think the only way to truly love another human being is with Christs love through us. If you look at human love it is blatantly shallow, unforgiving, and abrasive. True love will allow you to pray for your enemies while they persecute you, and show forgiveness to people who stab you in the back again and again. It is easy to love someone who loves you, but loving and enemy is the true test. I'm not saying I am flawless in this area, there are things in my life, more specifically people in my life who have hurt me very deeply and it seriously took an extrospective look into God's forgiveness for me to enable myself to forgive this person. I think the final thought that triggered me to forgive this person was if God can forgive me of my many sins, then why can't I forgive them?

I know there are moms that love their daughters, and fathers that love their sons, but how many people can say they love their enemies? Am I saying that we should let people walk all over us? Jesus said that if someone asks you for your shirt don't hesitate to give them your coat too. Maybe that is what God is asking of us. Maybe this kind of selflessness is what true love is. Jesus's death on the cross was probably the biggest act of selflessness that will ever be done- past, present, and future. God did not have to die for us, rather He chose to. That is as Francis Chan puts it "Crazy Love" !

I think the biggest thing that angers me is when churches kick people out for being homosexual. As if they are so holy. Were these people not sinners before receiving God's forgiveness? They act like homosexuality is such an abomination it is beyond God's forgiveness. God says if you break the smallest law then you have broken all of them (or something like that). My brother and I recently invited a gay guy to our church and we did everything possible to make him feel welcome. We prayed for him, not for him to become changed into a heterosexual, but that he would receive Gods forgiveness. I believe this is what we are called to do- love our neighbor as ourselves, but I think this is only possible when you have received God's spirit through faith in Jesus Christ.

reply to post by isthisreallife

There's more than one way of understanding the meaning of "above", just for the record..

Originally posted by freedish
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

I think the only way to truly love another human being is with Christs love through us.

Yeah, I'm with you re: the limitations of human "love", and the unconditional nature of God's love for us through Jesus Christ. Understood.

It's a very challenging love, that's for sure, eh?

But it's worth it, maybe the only thing that is truly worthwhile in this life, most certainly the only thing that's formative or impactful, and thus able to move moutains of causation.

reply to post by freedish

And when we love the "unlovable", for no reason than the love of Christ, in us, OMG, to see that look in their eyes..!

This would sound very arrogant of course, until we factor in our own unlovability, and how we were/are loved by God for no reason than Christ's love for us.

Originally posted by isthisreallife
What exactly are we discussing?

The complete lies that Jesus told his disciples?

Or the stupidity of those that think a man in the sky will come down and save them if they believe?

That wasn't at all arbitrary. Not a bit.

reply to post by NewAgeMan

"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees (insert appropriate Christian type here), you hypocrites! You traver land and sea proselytizing to win a single convert (how did he know?

), and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are!

Matthew 23:15 (parenthesis added)

reply to post by freedish

I know there are moms that love their daughters, and fathers that love their sons, but how many people can say they love their enemies?

For one thing, English is a lazy language. There are more than 5 different Greek words for different kinds of "love", and all get translated as "love" in English. We aren't to fake love, and we aren't expected to fall in love with our enemies. But to show them love, to display the love of Christ. To serve them when they are in need.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

I've heard that "turning the other cheek", in those days, since the Roman soldiers would backhand you while sitting on their horse, represents both an act of courage (inviting him to strike you, head on / full blow) and, as such, a way of shaming him for his brutality. Same thing with the "going the extra mile", where you would have to carry their crap a certain distance..
And giving him your cloak as well, when he asks for your tunic, leaves you in your underwear! All three of these things therefore, offered your opponent a friendly snub - so we can see that Jesus wasn't without a sense of humor, and I would imagine when the crowd heard these propositions, it was given and recieved as an "inside joke" of sorts, while illustrating the same points as we've come to see them today.

Jesus Christ was loving the human society and was trying to advise the people to the good work and follow the path of Love,honesty and truth.Also he was helping all the people in the society with great patience.He was praying god to the intelligence in the mind of the people those who are torturing the general public.

Jesus Christ was loving the human society and was trying to advise the people to the good work and follow the path of Love,honesty and truth.Also he was helping all the people in the society with great patience.He was praying god to the intelligence in the mind of the people those who are torturing the general public.

Great thread for discussion OP!

Your first S&F

What is seen can be destroyed, but what is unseen cannot and is eternal.

From Him who we came, so shall we all return. The original source of energy.

Christ is found within!

reply to post by FoxfilesMulder

Yes, the love of Christ is the infinitely intelligent and unseen spirit of the living God. All the treasure is in Christ, and the treasure is his love, and it is the one thing that cannot be stolen and that's what I love about it, it's trustworthy, true, and safe, protected, by God Himself.

A purely doctrinal POV however, or a formulaic Christianity, although it can be at cause in getting us connected, is not the thing itself, and with this as a tool the devil wrecks havoc by making any and every cunning attempt to separate us from this love and divide us, both within the body of Christ, amd relative to our fellow man outside the body of Christ, and especially from his the "outsider's" perspective, who sees only the doctrine, forever, if possible, blocking him from the recognition and the realization that Christian love is the very heart and soul of Chrisianity when properly "grokked" or integrated. I believe that the Bible is the devil's favorite tool for scattering the flock, and for preventing "outsiders" from an open-minded investigation free from contemptuous bias, which is a perfect way to keep a person in everlasting ignorance.

If I had my way, I would SHIFT the frame of reference, and make the Love of God through Jesus the very core of the faith, and then people would understand, and, they would be free, because when continually and ever-more grounded in that love, everything that is unworthy falls away quite naturally, because in this love is the happy, joyfilled, and liberated life, and sin by comparison, leads only to pain and sorrow. We need to embrace this love and "resist not evil" because what we resist, persists. The right use of the will, which is the will to love, involves only the tree of life and its fruits, not the dualistic tree of "should and should not" the fruits of which are death and destruction. How many preachers in Christendom are preaching Christianity as type of law and doctrinal based formula of should and should not, which must be followed to prevent going to hell? That's like the devil's dream come true.

P.S. When i say "devil" i refer to the spirit or spirits who are at enmity with both God and man, and who wish to prevent our ascent to the likeness and stature of Christ, en mass, representing of course the complete loss of their control, with humanity as the very fulcrum of a universal kingdom and kingship (as the crown of God's creation).

There are I think, two main difficulties or challenges presented to the individual, in the personal choice to become a Christian, as a believer in, follower and friend and lover of Jesus Christ.

One is, how to recieve a gift of incaculable value that we did, and can do, absolutely nothing, to either earn, or deserve, and

Two, once the choice is made, we CAN come under attack (not always), and not just from people, but from unseen influences, and even from within our own selves ie: the part of us which does NOT want to go along with this, fearful that "it" will die! (something I now find humorous).

Some years back, I was having difficulties, a spiritual crisis, due to this choice, and it was like I had come under full blown satanic attack, and it was very frightening, and painful and confusing. But in the midst of it, one day, as my mind was reeling, it suddenly dawned on me that there was this large space within me, like a giant heart, or upside down triangle running from my naval almost up to my shoulders, and in it was the presence and the love of Christ, but what made it really cool and totally awesome, was that it was a protected space! Whoever, or whatever was after me, could not touch it, could not mess with it! I smiled, and whatever it was left me! Christ had won! You could say it was a V for victory!

Just wanted to offer that because I think it's important. Nothing, no power or principality can break in and steal the love and the spirit of Christ, even when it lives in our own frail body, mind and soul which may be subject to attack from all directions.

This is where I got the mantra, which i used to repeat back then

All the treasure is in Jesus Christ, and the treasure is his love.

Peace,

NAM

To illustrate or illuminate this idea of an all-inclusive Christian love, I refer you to the

Parable of the Good Samaritan

Luke 10:25-37

[25] On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. "Teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?"

[26] "What is written in the Law?" he replied. "How do you read it?"

[27] He answered: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'"

[28] "You have answered correctly," Jesus replied. "Do this and you will live."

[29] But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, "And who is my neighbor?"

[30] In reply Jesus said: "A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he fell into the hands of robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. [31] A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. [32] So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. [33] But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. [34] He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, took him to an inn and took care of him. [35] The next day he took out two silver coins and gave them to the innkeeper. 'Look after him,' he said, 'and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.'

[36] "Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?"

[37] The expert in the law replied, "The one who had mercy on him."

Jesus told him, "Go and do likewise."

The parable explained www.jesuswalk.com...

"Go and do likewise!" (you've got to click the link to understand the full context, to see why I find that so amuzing)