Dale Farm eviction: live

Originally posted by On the level
reply to post by greenovni

 

They are not FREE they are work shy and want to live outside the law, without planning permission people could build what they want, wherever they want. There is a law for a reason. These people choose to live outside of the law and will pay for it.

You sound like a fool to me and probably unemployed, try paying taxes and working hard and see if your views of these leeches change.

Actually, thank you for the name calling and classification as unemployed since that is the best you can do

I actually own a small text marketing company where my clients can send specials and coupons to their customers directly to their cellular phones and charge all of my clients a monthly fee for the system and am quite sure that there is a high probability that I make WAY MORE than you as I charge in US dollars, Pounds & Euros x 184 clients x MONTHLY and counting

With that out of the way,

You claim the following:

without planning permission people could build what they want, wherever they want.

And that is the damned point about LAND OWNERSHIP. You see, the point of owning something is so you could do whatever the hell you want with your property.

By having to ask for permission, specially to your servants (council, .gov etc), you are just admitting that you truly do not own said land or any other property but are merely a TENANT as long as you pay taxes on it.

If you stop paying taxes, your ownership claims goes ***POOF*** and reverts back to the .gov which in your case is the true owner.

At least I am merely a fool.... while you continue to "work" & "pay taxes" to enjoy the privilege of being a SLAVE

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix
I don't believe that Man should have to pay someone to build on the land he already paid for. Building permits are just an excuse for local governments to make money.

Not true, Im currently trying to block the house next door to me from building and extension. If it was built, I wouldnt even be able to see the sky from one of my rooms.

I wonder how much youd like a nightclub or sports stadium to be built next door to you.

Everyone needs to live somewhere and being as they own the land anyway i don't see the problem this time as well as save more trouble and expense evicting them again from future sites. I know the law is there to be upheld, but surely when its going to cause more trouble and cost more to deal with in the future then calling it a day now seems the sensible thing to do. Ok the N.I.M.B.Y brigade (Not in my back yard) may not be happy, but they have to live somewhere and there is a good a place as any.

They could of done that a long time ago though couldnt they, they have been there ten years - its not like they were not aware of them

reply to post by greenovni


Ah so youre a spammer then, you should have kept quiet and people would have had a better opinion of you if you were unemployed.

those "travelers" should be traveling, not sticking around for years steeling wheels, scrap iron, electric, bricks, gates, fridge magnets and spoons. (yup, they'll bloody steal what ever they look at).
If they want to stick around one place for their whole lives then move into a house, pay rent, tax, etc.
this thing with dale farm was allowed to go on for far too long.
i feel sorry for them also loosing their homes but in a country of tax and laws, this shouldn't be allowed.

Originally posted by Flyer
reply to post by Acidtastic

 

So how would you feel if hundreds of pikeys turned up next door to you, crime goes up massively (because they wont support themselves legitimately) and it generally makes your life hell?

In the small town I live in, there are 2 traveller sites within a 10 mile or so radius. And guess what, crime HASN'T gone up becasue of them. This is a common mistake. This is how evil they are, and how bad and nasty they are.

I have a story to tell of 1 interaction, where I was made to play the bad guy. On a new years eve party, in one of my local pubs, I was DJing for the night. Now, this pub refuses to charge on NYE, which is commendable. But *cue sinister music* about 50 travellers turned up. Now, the landlord hid upstairs, and gave the bar staff the command to shut down the pub, and kick all of the "pikeys" out. he was too scared to do this by himself, and so were the bar staff. So they aasked me to shut it down. Now, I'm only little, a skinny bugger, with no muscles. An easy target for a 50 strong group of "criminals" So, I told the barstaff that I wasn't happy at doing this, and I wasn't going to lie to these people. So I grabbed the mic, and said somerhing along the line of "I'm sorry, but this pub seems to have some people from a community that the landlord is afraid of, so I'm afraid the pub is going to close now, please drink up and make your way to another venue"

I puit the mic down, and then went outside to appologise to these people. They looked sad, they were having a good time, paying for their drinks and behaving themselves, and then once again, they were shunned. Instead of being angry at me, they were sympathetic with me, as I was genuinly sorry that i'd been made to turn them out. A couple of the elder guys gave me a hug, and said that it was ok, not to worry about it becasue they were used to it.

This to me, was so humbling, I was close to tears. Everywhere they go, they are shunned and villified. If they have a funeral, all of the pubs ring around and close up. So they're not even allowed to grieve their losses. It is racism. Cast your mind back to the early parts of this century, where black people were treated and thought of in the exact same way. Tell me the difference please?

Edit to add another story. A mate of mine knew some gypsies, and for his wedding party, he hired a husband and wife fro mthe site to do the music. I was out in the pub garden talking to them about their equiptment, being a DJ i was interested in it. About half an hour into the convesation, the guy turned to me and thanked me. Do you know what for? For talking to him like a human being. He felt the need to say thank to me, becasue i hadn't treated him as an outcast. Again, i was a bit upset that he'd felt the need to do this, not becasue he had done this, but becasue his previous experiences of people, have led him to think that no-one will treat him as an equal. Again, he and his wife were sound. Normal people, good people. Trying to work to earn money so they can have the things they need. It sicken me that they have to think the way they do, it sickens me that they are treated so bad. Is it any wonder that some get sick of it and turn to crime to earn money, becasue nobody will give them a chance.

reply to post by Flyer


There is a difference between residential property and commercial property zoning where I'm from. No one could build a large commercial building next to me. I'm talking about building a house on your own land.

These people live next to a scrap yard. they aren't wanting to build large commercial buildings I'm sure. I can understand a resonable restriction, but not charging you for something that should be your free right.

How many other windows in the house do you have where you Can see the sky? It may be unfortunate for you but unless you can provide a good reason WHY you NEED to see the sky from that window, I'm sure they will let them have their extension. Is it blocking the only path for your TV dish?

If someone built a house next to mine that would block my view, I'd have to live with it because I didn't buy a big enough piece of land to fence it in to keep that from happening.
~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hey folks, perhaps I missed it.. is this going to have live video?

reply to post by JohnPhoenix


Houses are different here and they are so much closer, the building would be less than 6 feet away from my window.

We have a right to natural light. There is no reason needed.

www.planning-applications.co.uk...

Originally posted by Flyer
reply to post by greenovni

 

Ah so youre a spammer then, you should have kept quiet and people would have had a better opinion of you if you were unemployed.

Nope, the law is very clear how test marketing is to be performed. Every single person that signs up to one of my client's list had to do it themselves.

For example, a pizzeria.

The Pizza shop rents a local phone number from my company
Then they print out coupons, ads etc that promote a special like:
"Text FREE PIZZA to 212-555-5555 to enter our free weekly pizza give away"
Then the customer enters said offer on his own accord as an opt-in
The pizza shop owner now can send specials, coupons etc to his clients
Every single text has to have the following phrase to opt-out
To unsubscribe text STOP

Once this is done, the system then automatically scrubs the person's cell phone from the marketing list

Just letting you know a little about how FTC law works when dealing with commercial text messages before you become a fool like me

Now, back to the topic at hand:

I just realized how all of these travelers can conform with the law, get a "real house" and still be work shy!

All they have to do is get a free MANSION courtesy of the UK taxpayer!

African Immigrant Gets Free UK Mansion (7,000 Pounds a Month Paid By Taxpayers)

A single mother-of-six is getting more than £80,000 a year from the taxpayer to live in a £2million mansion in an exclusive London suburb. Essma Marjam, 34, is given almost £7,000 a month in housing benefits to pay the rent on the five-bedroom villa just yards from Sir Paul McCartney's house and Lord's cricket ground. She also receives an estimated £15,000 a year in other payouts, such as child benefit, to help look after her children, aged from five months to 14.

reply to post by Flyer


You have a good reason then and I wish you the best with it. They should grant you your request. Perhaps they and you can work with the neighbor to find a compromise - just so he wont be sore at you the rest of his life.

I have met lots of travellers in the past, and I can tell you that all of the ones I have met have nothing but contempt for non-travellers, or 'gorga's' as they call us. They laugh and discuss how they have ripped off families and pensioners by doing crap tarmacing and roofing jobs for which they are not qualified to do, and they charge £100's, and often £1000's of pounds. They have 'escorted' elderly citizens to their banks to make sure they get their money, they pocket the lot and do not pay any taxes like the rest of us have to.

Yes they have bought the land they live on, but all they had to do was apply for planning permission in the beginning. They didn't do this because they know it is greenbelt land, and that permission would be refused them, IT IS JUST THE SAME AS IF YOU OR I BOUGHT GREENBELT LAND. So they aren't being treated differently to non-travellers where this is concerned - except that it has took 10 years here. Whereas if it were you or I, eviction would take just months.

They have built houses on this land, which they knew from the beginning they cannot do, but they did anyway. They are not qualified builders, but 'cowboys', and have no knowledge, care nor concern for building safety regulations. Local Authorities have a duty to ensure existing and new buildings are safe for people to live in. Every person in the UK has to live by the laws of the land, including complying and submitting to building safety reg's.

Why should these people be treated any different with regards to this?

IF YOU WANT TO BUILD A HOUSE - DON'T BUY GREENBELT LAND.

reply to post by JohnPhoenix


Its complex to build here because everyone is so close, there arent even any houses being built any more, theyre all flats now as people cant afford to buy new houses.

Thats why theres so many rules, new buildings have a big impact on your neighbours. Its not like the US where you have much more space and the new buildings have less of an effect on people.

14.00 An appeal court judge has been told that elderly traveller Mary Flynn, is "too frail" to be evicted from Dale Farm. Mrs Flynn, 72, who suffers breathing problems is seeking permission to appeal against an earlier refusal to grant a temporary injunction against the evictions.

I don't think this would work. All they need to do is put her on a stretcher with an oxygen tank and wheel her out of there.

reply to post by Acidtastic


but if self sufficient means by means of fraud, tax evasion and crime (which with the uk's travellers it statistically does) then im afraid you have to protect the people in the surrounding area, who also have just as much right to live in peace and security, too.

if you don't like the laws of england, sell the land and buy some where living in a tent and being a pain in your neighbours arse is welcome.

where do you live? sounds like you'd welcome them with open arms

Originally posted by doobydoll
I have met lots of travellers in the past, and I can tell you that all of the ones I have met have nothing but contempt for non-travellers, or 'gorga's' as they call us. They laugh and discuss how they have ripped off families and pensioners by doing crap tarmacing and roofing jobs for which they are not qualified to do, and they charge £100's, and often £1000's of pounds. They have 'escorted' elderly citizens to their banks to make sure they get their money, they pocket the lot and do not pay any taxes like the rest of us have to.

Yes they have bought the land they live on, but all they had to do was apply for planning permission in the beginning. They didn't do this because they know it is greenbelt land, and that permission would be refused them, IT IS JUST THE SAME AS IF YOU OR I BOUGHT GREENBELT LAND. So they aren't being treated differently to non-travellers where this is concerned - except that it has took 10 years here. Whereas if it were you or I, eviction would take just months.

They have built houses on this land, which they knew from the beginning they cannot do, but they did anyway. They are not qualified builders, but 'cowboys', and have no knowledge, care nor concern for building safety regulations. Local Authorities have a duty to ensure existing and new buildings are safe for people to live in. Every person in the UK has to live by the laws of the land, including complying and submitting to building safety reg's.

Why should these people be treated any different with regards to this?

IF YOU WANT TO BUILD A HOUSE - DON'T BUY GREENBELT LAND.

In my foolish ignorance I did not know what green belt land was. A quick google search shows that

A green belt or greenbelt is a policy and land use designation used in land use planning to retain areas of largely undeveloped, wild, or agricultural land surrounding or neighbouring urban areas.

Now, I might be mistaken but should conservation areas only be owned by the state? & if so, shouldn't it be illegal to sell said land fully knowing that the buyer could never build on it?

Originally posted by Beavers
reply to post by Acidtastic

 

but if self sufficient means by means of fraud, tax evasion and crime (which with the uk's travellers it statistically does) then im afraid you have to protect the people in the surrounding area, who also have just as much right to live in peace and security, too.

if you don't like the laws of england, sell the land and buy some where living in a tent and being a pain in your neighbours arse is welcome.

where do you live? sounds like you'd welcome them with open arms

I live in Hertfordshire. A nice place, and as i say, there are a few sites near by. None of whome casue any trouble, at least, no more trouble than other residnets of local towns/villiages. And yes, I do welcome them, I welcome anyone. I treat everyone with the same respect they treat me, and I always start off on a "you're sound" basis, until given a reason not to. And then, I'm not going to demonise a whole group of people, due to the actions of a few.

Where are these people going to go now? They're going to be moved on to another site where they're not welcome, and then again and again. Where does it end, HOW are they supposed to try and live respectably, if they are given no chance to do so. Every single turn, these folks are turned away, becasue they ahve a different life style to us. yes, some of them turn to crime, and criminal acts, if you stop to ask why, then you might get a clearer reason for their actions. They can't get decent jobs, becasue people don't want them around. Just imagine that, becasue of where you were born, you can't get a job. Becasue of who you are, people shun you and shut down their premises when you go by. It's racism. And it makes me very sad.

I'm sure that if these people were extremely good natured, very friendly, generous and a true asset to the community then there wouldn't be a problem with them being there. Due to them being the complete opposite of that, I can see why no one gives a damn.

reply to post by greenovni


you're missing the point.

sure, lets get rid of tax and jobs for everyone. until then, these guys aren't special and shouldn't get a better deal than everyone else.

and imagine this.

10 people own an area of land, they keep it nice and have worked hard all their lives to be able to afford it.

1 dies and leaves the land to his #'ed up herion addict daughter.

she swaps it for drugs from some travellers, they set up camp and completely ruin the area for all those people who worked hard - they can't sell their own land, no one wants to buy land next to scum, and they can't afford to just go.

fortunately, in this instance the uk law is smarter and fairer than you and the gypsies so black and white simplistic rules like "ITS THAR LAND THEY KAN DO WOT THEY LYKE" doesn't mean squat.

they CAN sell that land at a fair price to other people who wish to live in a nice area, and go land next door to you if they like tho

Wait a minute.. so Greenbelt land is protected land for conservation that you cannot build a house on.. and you guys are saying that this is the same land that these travelers are using - But that don't make any sense:

The Dale Farm controversy dates back to the 1970s when 40 English Romany families were granted permission to live on land next to a scrapyard. In 1996 a group if Irish travellers bought the land for £122,000 and the site began to expand dramatically.

If you cant have a house on it then how could the 40 English Romany families be granted permission to live there?


Edit: Seems like a fair question. I wonder why no one has answered it yet,