Allegedly don't pay child support? No trial for you

I know one guy that has been paying child support for 12 years but has not seen the child ever(he has visitation but the mother keeps moving every time he tries) and finely he hired a private investigator to track the mother.

To his surprise after 3 months of tracking her they have never found the kid.
No one knows where the kid is or if there is even a child that he is supporting.

He even went to the cops and and report the child missing.
The mother claims a relative is taking care of the child and the mother will not tell the cops where because she claims the father is trying to find the child to abduct him.

At this point all the proof that there is a child is the birth certificate.
There is no proof that its not fake or if the child is still alive.
There is also no proof of the mother sending money to any one to care for the child.

Originally posted by KrazyJethro
Personally, I feel that men have no financial responsibility to pay child support due to the current abortion laws. I am NOT trying to start an abortion debate, so please don't, but logically it's true.

You're absolutely spot on.

Legal abortion and statutory child support are mutually incompatible.

If abortion is illegal, then a child is created at conception. That means that the mother and father are both 50% contributors to the child's creation. ergo, child support would be justified.

If abortion is legal, then a child is created entirely by the mother's choice. When the mother is 100% responsible for the creation of the child, then there is absolutely no logical argument which supports making the father a monetary slave because of the mother's capricious whim.

What's incredibly embarrassing, and painfully amusing at the same time, is to hear some of these women talking about ''deadbeat dads''.

Millions of years of evolution have honed the courtship and mating behaviour of humans. This behaviour means that sexual relations will only be instigated when the female ''gives the green light'', so to speak. Considering the fact that most women have multiple suitors, and have a wide range of choice, then to openly admit that they willingly had sex with - and bore the child/children of - these aforementioned ''deadbeat dads'', is surely the height of embarrassment ?!

It's an admittance that they completely failed at selecting a suitable father for a child. How can any self-respecting woman openly admit and acknowledge this fact ?

reply to post by getreadyalready


I know exactly what your obligations are for the organisation you work for and YOU my friend stepped out of line. There are a number of child welfare authorities you could had contacted if you suspected any child abuse, but you admitted you did NOTHING.

It is not your job to ask custodial parents what they do with their child support but as a human being it IS your job to contact child welfare authorities if you have any suspecisions relating to a child just as it your obligation to contact Police if you see anyone being hurt.

You fail my friend just like billions of others out there that sit on their arse and do nothing but you'll come in to a public domain and whine about it....which I will remind you.....you can't discuss nor are you allowed to discuss file subjects regardless of whether or not you mention names because you are in the public service.

reply to post by photobug


My friend, it's still word of mouth and I have to take with a pinch of salt. I'm sure you have documentation to back up your claims but I'm someone you don't know and vice virser so I can't accept your word.

Yes please find me a source re the POW because I have never known any American POW in Iraq or Afghanistan going missing for 6 months.

The whole child support system is pretty screwed up.

And the whole anti-man bias there is no myth.

I've never really had the impression they were particularly concerned about the women's interests either... It's more like they're interested in justifying their own existence.

.02

reply to post by HomerinNC


My friend, you never had a problem because you kept in communication with the child support agency and did'nt try to hide anything. You should be commended as being a good example for many other men to follow but sadly thats not the case with many others out there. Kudos to you!

reply to post by bluemirage5


Did you read my post? I contacted authorities literally hundreds of times, just not that particular time, because I don't think the children were in danger, I think the mother was just being an ass and exaggerating.

I no longer work for that agency, but even if I did, there is nothing wrong with discussing generalities, I just can't discuss anything case specific. I gave many talks, on behalf of the department, while I worked there, with specific real world examples with the minor caveat of making sure the names and numbers were changed to protect identities.

And you sound like the typical callers we got when I worked there. Everyone thinks they know what we can and cannot do, or ask, but 99% of the time they were wrong, just like you are wrong. There isn't a dam thing wrong with asking a question, any question, especially on an escalated call, and especially when someone is making outrageous claims. As long as I'm not accusing them of anything, or making any pre-conceived assumptions, then I'm not doing anything wrong.

In child support, we occasionally had to ask detailed questions all the way down to the type, duration, and style of sex they had, with whom, and where!! It was outrageously comical, sad, and scary all simultaneously! Sometimes the women would could only describe the man by his sex organ, or sometimes they would describe 6 or 7 men that were all there at one time, and only have 1 or 2 first names to go by. Other times they would have detailed logs with dates, times, locations, durations, and names! It was amazing the details some people keep! I've seen people give as many as 40 names, do 40 DNA tests, and still not find the biological father! I've seen women who were grandmothers at age 22! I even had a case where someone got pregnant by a boy they never had sex with! For those that don't know any better, it is NOT OK to share condoms!

And you don't have to work there to hear the stories!

Man forced to pay child support after only receiving oral sex.

Jon Cryer forced to pay $8k per month to a woman that only has 4% custody, declared an unfit mother, and put a hit out on his life!

Funny, but true Child Support Claims

1. Regarding the identity of the father of my twins, child A was fathered by [name removed]. I am unsure as to the identity of the father of child B, but I believe that he was conceived on the same night.

2. I am unsure as to the identity of the father of my child as I was being sick out of a window when taken unexpectedly from behind. I can provide you with a list of names of men that I think were at the party if this helps.

3. I do not know the name of the father of my little girl. She was conceived at a party [address and date given] where I had unprotected sex with a man I met that night. I do remember that the sex was so good that I fainted. If you do manage to track down the father can you send me his phone number? Thanks.

4. I don’t know the identity of the father of my daughter. He drives a BMW that now has a hole made by my stiletto in one of the door panels. Perhaps you can contact BMW service stations in this area and see if he’s had it replaced.

5. I have never had sex with a man. I am awaiting a letter from the Pope confirming that my son’s conception was immaculate and that he is Christ, risen again.

reply to post by getreadyalready


Here's the deal. For many years I never received child support so I used my own money to pay my ex husband's share towards the expenses of our children. When I did receive bits here and there it went back in to my bank account as a refund and I held everything in to account and kept a ledger for all expenses. If my ex was in arrears of $50K and I had already spent $50k as his share on my children, that money would be a refund and deducted against his debt he owes me. If 2-4+ weeks went by after receiving that money and no further child support was coming through you can bet your bottom dollar I'm coming after the child support agency.

reply to post by getreadyalready


Your first link does'nt work. In regards to the others; can you provide links of funny child support claims by MEN? Yours appear to be mostly women.

I'm sure there are some outragous claims you see coming through your Dept but it's no different to any other Govt Dept and organisation.

Fact is at the end of the day, you make a baby, both biological parents are equally responsibile for it regardless of how the child was concieved.

reply to post by bluemirage5


I think that is completely fair. From reading your posts, I can imagine you would call, you would have details, you would help with keeping tabs on the father, and you would be professional in your approach. In that case, you would get all the help in the world. It might not do any good, some men (and women) are very skilled at staying just beyond the grasp of the law, but at least you would get cordial and friendly service.

The folks I'm talking about began every conversation in screams and accusations. They always exaggerated to the point of being ridiculous. And, no matter what the particular circumstances of their case were, they always claimed it was life and death, and it was always everyone else's fault!

It sounds like you made every effort to take care of yourself and kids. You planned accordingly. You'd be surprised at the people that haven't received any child support in years, but every month they acted surprised that it didn't come and claimed they couldn't pay their rent or groceries because they had counted on that money. That is just poor planning, if it didn't come last month, or the month before, or any month over the last several years, why would you count on it now?

You'd also be surprised at the number of fathers dead or in jail for life, and the mothers still calling wondering why they aren't paying? Really? They died a year ago, they're not going to pay anymore?

On an even more sad note. You'd be really, really surprised at the amount of employers that withhold child support money from someone's check, but never send it in to the agency. Over several weeks or months it can add up to a very large number, and if the business is barely scraping by, sometimes that money is all gone, the father is still on the hook for it, the business goes under, and the father's only recourse is to sue the defunct business. He gets no sympathy from the agency, he still owes the money, he's still delinquent, and he's still getting his license suspended, and warrants for his arrest, even though he thought he was paying, and he doesn't have the money himself!

Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by getreadyalready

 

Your first link does'nt work. In regards to the others; can you provide links of funny child support claims by MEN? Yours appear to be mostly women.

I'm sure there are some outragous claims you see coming through your Dept but it's no different to any other Govt Dept and organisation.

Fact is at the end of the day, you make a baby, both biological parents are equally responsibile for it regardless of how the child was concieved.

edit on 18-11-2011 by bluemirage5 because: (no reason given)

The link works when I click it? Here is the web address mensnewsdaily.com...

Yes, I'd like to agree that both parents are equally liable, but it isn't the case. The mother has the choice of an abortion, the father doesn't get that choice. The mother has the option of dastardly lies, like saving the semen in her mouth (link above) or pretending to be on the pill, or getting pregnant by another person and not informing the husband/boyfriend that is on the hook for the payments.

In fact, in Florida, even if the DNA proves you are NOT the father. If you are on the birth certificate, or if you were married at the time of the conception or birth, then you are almost 100% likely to pay the child support even if you can prove the child is not yours. You are the legal father, and that is even more damaging than being the biological father. I've even seen judges find out the identity of the biological father, find out the guy is a deadbeat, or in jail, or whatever, and so they refuse to let the responsible husband/boyfriend off the hook. Their logic is that they are protecting the child. They are not going to remove a responsible father from payments and replace him with a deadbeat that won't pay. Screw the responsible guy, protect the child, let the deadbeat be rewarded for being a deadbeat.

The one thing I think we agree on, the system is severely broken.

reply to post by getreadyalready


I'm a business woman and I account for every last dime that I receive. I treat all/any child support the same way; I keep all receipts and have kept a ledger for many years. Whenever the ex complains about what I do with child support I have to remind him his payments never covered a month's worth of bread and milk alone and I was more than happy to visit him with my ledger and receipts. Have'nt heard from him since and that was 8 years ago. The youngest turns 18 soon and a copy of the ledger will be sent to the CSA and my ex husband. None of the items include gifts and extras above and beyond the day to day expenses including medical/dental and education in a public school. Lets hope the ledger hurts where it should and he has a conscience to pay my children's university fees....ya think?

reply to post by bluemirage5


You can always hope!

The debt never goes away, and they are getting more and more tools every year. They can now seize any lottery winnings, any Federal money (not just tax returns), including travel vouchers, contract payments, etc. They can freeze bank accounts. Chances are, at some point, you or your child will get your money unless the guy is a total loser.

I know of one case where a guy was close to $100k behind. He owned a business, and he hid all of his income, and played the game very strategically. He won a big Federal Contract, put in a few months work, and then his fat payment was seized and given to the mother, LOL! He was truly in a bind! Had payroll to make, had equipment expenses, but the agency didn't care. She kept the money. I knew another guy that was an MD, but claimed to only make like $30k per year. He got away with it for a long time, but eventually they suspended his MD license, and that in turn suspended his clinics licenses, and he had to shutdown a couple of lucrative businesses until he could reach a deal with a Judge. The judge was not at all lenient, and the guy coughed up a bunch of dough to get his licenses back.

Hopefully it'll come through for you. Congrats on sending your kids to college! You sound like a great mama!

reply to post by getreadyalready


You can't force a woman to have an abortion or any other medical procedure. Fact is, it takes two to tango!

I'm 100% in support of any man who is paying child support towards a child that is not biologically his and should'nt be except in cases of adoption and his child was concieved through IVF during his marriage.

I believe strongly that all child support applications should include DNA results.

reply to post by getreadyalready


Yeah, my ex husband was and still is self employed. I know how that plays out. They are the worst payers in the child support system.

At the end of the day I have 3 beautiful healthy intelligent kids; could'nt ask for more. When my time comes in my senior years I know I'll be well taken care of.

On a last note.....I can't help but have a giggle re Alan from Two and Half Men. It's almost unbelieveable how much child support he pays in light of his character on the show.

reply to post by bluemirage5


LOL! I thought the same thing. Art imitates life, or vice versa!

Poor guy though. That just proves that even with money and lawyers, the judges and the system can still be completely illogical and unfair. She tried to kill him!

One last sad story. One of my last calls before I left. A man had been arrested for failing to pay for 3 years. His daughter was 3 years old when the mother killed her. He had spent 3 years fighting for custody, claiming how dangerous the mother was, etc., etc. Finally he was proven right when the mother beat the little girl to death. The mother was in jail, but the father was still 3 years behind on child support, and the agency was still attempting to collect, and when they collected, it was still going to the mother. There wasn't a thing I could do to help him.

reply to post by getreadyalready


Unfortunately that case of the little 3 year old child is becoming common place, not just in the USA but also here in Australia and NZ.

There were afew moments in the earlier years where the financial stress was almost unbearable but then we took to recycling clothes, linen, furniture and anything else we could get our hands on, some of it we turned in to pieces of art and sold it - even made a business out of it thats changed much since, got the kids in to vegie patches and now we look back and agree this was the best time of our lives. But to harm or abuse a child because you can't see the light at the end of tunnel is very very sad indeed. Unfortunately some people can't cope alone, I see that all too often.

You remind me of something....

Many years ago I had this large Nefertiti statue I found in a household cleanup up the street from where I lived. I hand sanded it's features and painted it, took me almost 6 months to complete and was probably one of the best pieces I ever did, more stunning than anything you'll see in the British Museum. A gentleman offered me $4.5k for it. As I went to carefully wrap it in air bubble.....I dropped it and smashed in to hundreds of pieces right in front of him. LOL