Stop trying to convert me!!

Originally posted by itbenickp
Not a day goes by lately that someone tries to push their religion down my gullet.

Every day? Do you live across from a church or are you intentionally throwing yourself in front of street preachers?

Originally posted by itbenickp
So this is what I tell them

Have you tried "no thank you"? because all that BS isn't going to do anything except make them think you're hopeless. You might think you're making them question their faith or making them look foolish, but I assure you I've been on plenty of Christian forums where people were talking about encountering people like you and you're just making yourself the butt of their jokes.

Originally posted by itbenickp
reply to post by xxsomexpersonxx

 

Exactly!! I would much rather go through my day thinking my own thoughts rather then second guessing whether or not I'm going contrary to the bible and god. Its like you need someone to vet every action and thought you make to decide if its the right move or not

That person should be YOU. What are you denying yourself every day that you have to blame god for ?

If you've got good intentions, what else do you need in order to not second guess yourself?

Originally posted by itbenickp
reply to post by User8911

 

Yes!! Karma is an intangible that I go by everyday! I treat everyone I meet with dignity and respect

well i haven't tried to push my beliefs on you yet you're yelling at me (indirectly, of course) because i happen to believe in an invisible (read cloaked/stealthed/inter- or other dimensional) reality. i will attempt to convert you if you wish, however.

reply to post by SavedOne


Nope, don't live across from a church buy really close to one. And nope don't throw myself in front of street preachers either, actually try to stay away from religiousl types. I'm taking a cdl class and interact with students behind me and in front of me, and in this interactions and conversations the topic of religion is inevitably brought up. I've used the I really don't feel like talking about religion line, the walking away approach and most times try to flat out ignore then. When all that don't work that's when I tell them my opinion on the subject. As I said this is lately, not everyday of my life. And I really don't care if they make me the butt of jokes online. Well that's kind of fib, if they do it kinda makes me feel vindicated because it means I had an impact on their life in some fashion, a

No. You will not be left alone. Ever.

How is what we do any different than what you do? Witnessing to others is part of our faith. If you're as tolerant as you say, then allow us to practice our religion in peace. Sit there, shut up, and listen. That would be the nonviolent, tolerant thing to do. Let's see if you can practice what you preach, sir. You don't want us practicing our religion on YOU, we don't want you practicing yours on us by refusing to be 'saved'. You make your choice, we make ours. In the end, someone's gotta lose. Why does it have to be us? *The previous is intended to make a point, not to piss you off.*

Now that your initial argument is out of the way, there is more tangible proof of a Creator than there is of the big bang. The universe evidences signs of intelligent design, or at least our world does. By scientific standards, Our planet shouldn't exist at all, not flourishing with life in abundance and set to auto-balance itself. How is it so hard to believe that an intelligent creator didnt simply speak all things into creation? I have a choice to believe it was done intelligently or that .... nothing... exploded and random particles and laws coalesced into the universe I now live in?

Nah, you're going on faith just as much as we are. In the end, we all have to have a personal relationship with God, whether it's the spirit of the Earth, the Christian God, the God of Islam, or even your own higher consciousness. In the end, there's no proof of any of it save what you take to be true. You can't begin to comprehend the physics of this Universe, because everything in your life is finite. You're born, you live, you die. Even evolution has a beginning and an end. We were amino acids that clustered together for a little warmth on a Saturday night, billions of years later, we're puffs of smoke and light and made up entirely of energy. But, before that, there was a giant round rock that fostered the conditions for evolution. Before that, a Big Bang. Before that. What? What was there before space and time? Nothing? One of our base understandings of physics states that matter can neither be created or destroyed, only transformed... so where'd it all come from? At least Christians have an answer and one that makes sense. Kind of gives us a shortcut to the infinity thing. Science is required to prove it out, test, observe, etc... but since humans can never understand the concept of infinity, we wouldn't' understand the answer if we had it. But we do understand the fact that we can't understand everything.

You're religion is as ridiculous as ours, but that doesn't mean they can't coexist. Instead of trashing our religion and thinking so negatively on, why not try to make sense of it. I can give credence to evolution to a degree, but I can use my personal philosophy to attack scientific theory in order to gain greater understanding. Knowing where I stand in belief allows me to learn better, to cull the chaff, provided I don't get so married to a doctrine that I refuse to see truth. Whether you like it or not, we have to get along. We're going to try to save you and you can keep running from us if you like, but I would think you'd welcome it. When a bible-thumping Jesus freak starts hammering away at YOU, whip out your own bible, or a book of science, and try to bring them around to your religion. Not only is it highly entertaining, but It'll allow you to make friends out of the thinkers and prove the indoctrinated drone to be the stone-headed lump he truly is. Quit thinking of it as a problem and think of it as an opportunity.

reply to post by Arrowmancer


You don't want us practicing our religion on YOU, we don't want you practicing yours on us by refusing to be 'saved'.
M'kay, so those who do not believe should roll over and give up. Sorry Love, ain't gonna happen. I side with the witches, the heathen, the cannibals, the native. You have with your so called religion have systematically destroyed entire cultures and civilizations in the name of a god who is, if he exists, insane. He couldn't make up his mind if he was the good guy or the bad guy in the old testement, turned out to be the indifferent guy in the new one, sadistic in the koran, and pretty much a psycho with a nepoleon complex the rest of the time. I must endure the postulations of a false cult just like the OP, but I will gladly turn my back on them. You see, I was raised by a christian, who had the classical christian values, you know, the forgiveness, the anger, the love, the drunken violence, the open hand...across your face if you earn their displeasure. Yep, love and peace. At least I wasn't a child of a preacher, or I would have been molested as well, or grown up more perverted than a craphouse rat on ecstasy. Its your hell, YOU burn in it.

Originally posted by volafox
reply to post by Arrowmancer

 

You don't want us practicing our religion on YOU, we don't want you practicing yours on us by refusing to be 'saved'.
M'kay, so those who do not believe should roll over and give up. Sorry Love, ain't gonna happen. I side with the witches, the heathen, the cannibals, the native. You have with your so called religion have systematically destroyed entire cultures and civilizations in the name of a god who is, if he exists, insane. He couldn't make up his mind if he was the good guy or the bad guy in the old testement, turned out to be the indifferent guy in the new one, sadistic in the koran, and pretty much a psycho with a nepoleon complex the rest of the time. I must endure the postulations of a false cult just like the OP, but I will gladly turn my back on them. You see, I was raised by a christian, who had the classical christian values, you know, the forgiveness, the anger, the love, the drunken violence, the open hand...across your face if you earn their displeasure. Yep, love and peace. At least I wasn't a child of a preacher, or I would have been molested as well, or grown up more perverted than a craphouse rat on ecstasy. Its your hell, YOU burn in it.

okay, let's boil it down to the dregs, cause that's where the real substance is, is it not? the dregs of being human are as follows:

1) we all collectively suck

2) we all collectively have good moments too

3) we tend to blame everyone in a certain sector of society, for any ills that have come upon us in life (Example: darwinists are to blame. religionists are to blame. men are evil. women are evil. etc)

4) more people have died in the name of no religion as have in the name of religion. that's a fact. stalin, all by his lonesome killed more people than were alive on the planet for the first 6000 years of recorded history. and we aren't even factoring in, mao, hitler, and the usual gang of modern day "no religion!" suspects. it doesn't excuse the first 6000 years of killing but it certainly doesn't support the notion that one world view excels at being morally incorruptible, when dealing with concepts like murder, war, and generally inhumane treatment of others.

so you were saying?

Science builds airplanes, but religion flies them into buildings.
In today's society, if you're not part of the 'in' crowd, (read christian if you're southern, etc) Then you must, MUST be converted. If not, then you're a satan worshiping, goat sacrificing, child eating monstrosity who should be drummed out of town at the earliest possible moment. It doesn't matter if you fund a soup kitchen, give to the poor, or help those who cannot otherwise help themselves. You're still the devil.

reply to post by itbenickp


S+F for the thread. Very well said. Discussing beliefs is one, but injecting repent or damnation everywhere is getting very old. Trouble is some of them think that is why they are here. Sigh.

Originally posted by volafox
reply to post by Arrowmancer

 

M'kay, so those who do not believe should roll over and give up. Sorry Love, ain't gonna happen.

You have as much right as we do to keep practicing your religion. I was making a point that those who are screaming "quit shoving it down my throat" are basically, in screaming it, doing that exact thing to us. It's a no-win situation. Someone has to lose. Why you? Why us? Find a solution for coexistance instead of adding to the problem. Merely making a point.

I side with the witches, the heathen, the cannibals, the native. You have with your so called religion have systematically destroyed entire cultures and civilizations in the name of a god who is, if he exists, insane.

Cannibals? Heathen, cannibals, and natives? So it's a question of numbers? Yes Christians pretty much laid waste to the world in the name of God. Hundreds of thousands were lost. But because of all that they have accomplished, billions live. Christians wiped out tyrannical dictators during the dark ages and brought them under the heel of the church. Instead of having thousands of bad guys, we had one. The Pope. If you ever want to unite a group of people, give them a common enemy. In this case, Lucifer. In the case of Heathen who attacked Christians and Romans and Infidels and such, and in the case of Cannibals who eat the flesh of humans, and in the case of Native Americans who wantonly attacked, raped, murdered and enslaved other tribes, it's simply a question of numbers. If those separate tribes had the numbers of Christians and the force of belief behind them, how bad could it have gotten? That being said, there are many more different groups of Chrisitians than there were of Natives and all of their belief systems were the same though a large majority had a common foundation. You go on an side with them if you like, but they're no less guilty than we.

He couldn't make up his mind if he was the good guy or the bad guy in the old testement, turned out to be the indifferent guy in the new one, sadistic in the koran, and pretty much a psycho with a nepoleon complex the rest of the time.

He is God. He sees his creations trying to deny him when we can't even understand him. Easier to just say that He doesn't exist. Attempting to understand a sentient being responsible for all of creation? Of course he would appear mad to a non-believer!

I must endure the postulations of a false cult just like the OP, but I will gladly turn my back on them. You see, I was raised by a christian, who had the classical christian values, you know, the forgiveness, the anger, the love, the drunken violence, the open hand...across your face if you earn their displeasure. Yep, love and peace. At least I wasn't a child of a preacher, or I would have been molested as well, or grown up more perverted than a craphouse rat on ecstasy. Its your hell, YOU burn in it.

It takes two to tango, "Love". Atheists and non-Christians are every bit as violent as their Christian counterparts. If the other side had won in the Christian wars, we'd still be right here, but you wouldn't be griping about those who follow the path of the Christian God, because you would probably be executed as a heretic... The difference between us is that I acknowledge the insanity of my religion and you don't acknowledge the insanity of your religion or non-religion. You have every pitfall, every weakness, every flaw that we do, as well as every strength. And it's because you are every bit as human as I. Religion has nothing to do with it. If you want to hate a man because of his actions, you go right ahead. He's earned it. But don't hate the religion of billions because of the actions of a few.

I'm not trying to incite a riot, here. I made a cute little disclaimer in my post stating that I was just making a point. Christians are more tolerant than non-Christians. If there were only 100 of us on the planet attempting to convert everyone, it would be a cute thing, tolerated for the novelty. THe fact that there are so many of us gives us power. WHy get upset? Are you that weak in your own faith or non-faith that listening to us could rupture the foundation of your entire belief system and you could wake up Christian? Why does our faith anyger you so?

reply to post by Arrowmancer


The difference? There's no mystical higher power telling me I have witness to people and try to save them. My post is about why I don't believe, not why you shouldn't. You want me to believe in god? Have him come down off his mighteir than thou horse, come down and bring world peace, stop people from starving, stop us from goi.g to war with each other and tell us how when and where we precisely went off his game plan. In short, fix every human flaw he created in us. Want me to believe in god? Have him come down and tell us which religion had it right the whole time. Hell I would love to be wrong about all this lol, I woulda love to think there's a heaven lol, and like I said earlier, if I'm wrong and he exists then its between him and I in the afterlife. Not between you and I k? You may think its your job to convert me but I assure you, nothing you say will ever convince me that he exists. Basically only one person or being can convince me he exists and thats god himself. And you say he's been around since the beginning of time then how were we not aware of his existence for millions of years? And if he exists why would he allow so many variations of his bible or allow excerpts from it being withheld?

Originally posted by volafox
Science builds airplanes, but religion flies them into buildings.
In today's society, if you're not part of the 'in' crowd, (read christian if you're southern, etc) Then you must, MUST be converted. If not, then you're a satan worshiping, goat sacrificing, child eating monstrosity who should be drummed out of town at the earliest possible moment. It doesn't matter if you fund a soup kitchen, give to the poor, or help those who cannot otherwise help themselves. You're still the devil.

disagree. i think you're exaggerating and i'll give you an example:

i'm female. as a female, i could bring up all the incidences in history (and the statistics to match it) that the male of the human species (regardless of race) has been extremely destructive and to blame for most ills on the planet. would that be fair do you think or an exaggeration? if women were in charge of the planet, would the result be the same or would their variation in chromosomes and hormones, change the scenario to a less violent one? would there be as much corruption? the answer to that is, "yes they would be just as corrupt!" because, the common factor is human nature.

i lived in a state where everyone was a different religion than myself. to say it was uncomfortable at times, would be an understatement. in fact, it was quite bad, and the women of that religion were just as likely to be obnoxious about it as the men. however, one thing they didn't do was try to tell me what to think inside my own head. it was a decision i had to make on my own. that territory was considered sacred ground and no one had a right to place themselves in it, except god.

alternatively, i've lived amongst the non-religious and found their desire to dictate my thoughts on subjects, tyrannical at best. they insisted on erecting their humanity in the sacred ground of my mind, which is not any of their business or their right. they can tell me what they think i should believe, but they shouldn't demand it. the first one that demands it, has violated my humanity in a way that is not acceptable. end.of.story!

First to UNDO: Beautifully stated! That would be the first post I starred in this thread.

Originally posted by itbenickp
reply to post by Arrowmancer

 

The difference? There's no mystical higher power telling me I have witness to people and try to save them. My post is about why I don't believe, not why you shouldn't.

No? If a child was about to run out in front of a bus while chasing a ball, would you attempt to save their mortal life? WHY. Because you do answer to a higher authority. Your subconscious, your ego, your sense of right vs. wrong? Different name, same thing. I give mine a form and a name and a structure of understanding. I don't just react to the stimuli around me. And you weren't telling me why I shouldn't believe, but that I cannot practice my religion while you are around. I don't stop you from practicing yours and would respect it if you told me not to proselytize. But that rock-hard denial of allowing me to practice in your presence is a bit hypocritical isn't it?

You want me to believe in god? Have him come down off his mighteir than thou horse, come down and bring world peace, stop people from starving, stop us from goi.g to war with each other and tell us how when and where we precisely went off his game plan. In short, fix every human flaw he created in us. Want me to believe in god? Have him come down and tell us which religion had it right the whole time. Hell I would love to be wrong about all this lol, I woulda love to think there's a heaven lol, and like I said earlier, if I'm wrong and he exists then its between him and I in the afterlife. Not between you and I k? You may think its your job to convert me but I assure you, nothing you say will ever convince me that he exists. Basically only one person or being can convince me he exists and thats god himself. And you say he's been around since the beginning of time then how were we not aware of his existence for millions of years? And if he exists why would he allow so many variations of his bible or allow excerpts from it being withheld?

1. Be careful what you wish for. Imagine what would happen if God came to you right now in all of His infinite glory and splendor and forced understanding into your limited human mind. It would destroy everything you are, take away any free will you had and the choice to believe would no longer be yours. All paths in your life would then be gone and you would have but a single one to walk.
2. Why doesn't he? Because if He interfered it would take away our free will... free will that was guaranteed to us by Him. The whole war between the Heavenly Hosts was because one of his Angels didn't believe that Humans were worthy of the choice to love Him or not.
3. Why are there so many bibles? There is only one bible. But there are different configurations. Yes, the Vatican withholds some of it. Basically, humans have corrupted the system set in place to protect it. The Septuagint and the Vulgate bibles are the most complete bibles on record, though the Vatican removed some of the books when their authenticity or completeness were brought into question. I hear alot of folk that argue the anti-religion front that have no idea what either of these bibles are, or can even tell me what the Apocrypha are. I think, eventually, we'll have the whole bible. Right now, we treat it as an equation, with known quantities and variables, ending up with a result that is preordained. We must use good judgement to decipher the variables.

I am Christian, but I do practice it my own way. I try not to limit my mind or argue positions that cannot be won. Which is exactly what I've been doing in this thread. It's insane trying to reason with a Christian on the grounds of their faith. ALl you're going to do is upset you both because neither ofyou will budge. It's like trying to break a piece of granite with a lemon.

Some of the things people have replied in here has got me thinking. They (Christians, etc..) say that God loves everyone equally, so when a terrible person finds out how bad the things he did in his life was, he gets saved. So with that in mind, what is God's plan for sociopaths? Since they have no consciousness, they can never realize how much damage they have done, and will never regret any decisions they make along the way. Would they be called Satan's minions roaming the Earth? I would really like a religious reply to this if possible.

I probably worded the part about what Christians say wrong, but I hope you get what I mean.

being religious in my opinion is a means of satisfying our need for a sense of of huge self importance. many claim god has a personal relationship with them or has chosen them (so special) and showed them a sign. It also must be very comforting to know you are one of the chosen. youll be alright when you die so feel sorry for the athiests who will burn in hell...you will have the last laugh! (cough cough pass round the collection plate please)

you probably guessed Im not religeous but i also dont have a problem with religeous people (as long as they dont beleive they are better than me because of their faith).

reply to post by volafox


I call you out on this BS, it is ridiculous how illiterate our world is regarding those of faith have contributed to scientific advancement, and how quickly and casually those of faith are relegate to the ranks of "ranting" illiterates and "fanatical fundamentalists" who are interested in nothing but violence and oppression. This is just a minuscule representation of those who have held faith, and have also advanced science. It it pathetic how the true nature of scientific advancement has been on the back of many who have done so to declare the glory of creation and the creator, and yet "missed" by those who would tear it down...

Bartholomaeus Pitiscus
He may have introduced the word trigonometry into English and French. He was also a Calvinist theologian who acted as court preacher at the town then called Breslau.

John Napier
Scottish mathematician known for inventing logarithms, Napier's bones, and being the popularizer of the use of decimals. He also was a staunch Protestant who wrote on the Book of Revelation.

Francis Bacon
Eminent English scientist and originator of the eponymous Baconian method or simply, the scientific method.

Johannes Kepler
His model of the cosmos based on nesting Platonic solids was explicitly driven by religious ideas; his later and most famous scientific contribution, the Kepler's laws of planetary motion, was based on empirical data that he obtained from Tycho Brahe's meticulous astronomical observations, after Tycho died of mercury poisoning. He had wanted to be a theologian at one time and his Harmonice Mundi discusses Christ at points.

Galileo Galilei
Scientist who had many problems with the Inquisition for defending heliocentrism in the convoluted period brought about by the Reformation and Counter-Reformation. In regard to Scripture, he took Augustine's position: not to take every passage too literally, particularly when the scripture in question is a book of poetry and songs, not a book of instructions or history.

Descartes
He was a key thinker of the Scientific Revolution. He is also honoured by having the Cartesian coordinate system used in plane geometry and algebra named after him. He did important work on invariants and geometry. His Meditations on First Philosophy partially concerns theology and he was devoted to reconciling his ideas with the dogmas of Catholic Faith to which he was loyal.

Pierre Gassendi
Catholic priest who tried to reconcile Atomism with Christianity. He also published the first work on the Transit of Mercury and corrected the geographical coordinates of the Mediterranean Sea.[

Anton Maria Schyrleus of Rheita
Capuchin astronomer. He dedicated one of his astronomy books to Jesus Christ, a "theo-astronomy" work was dedicated to the Blessed Virgin Mary, and he wondered if beings on other planets were "cursed by original sin like humans are.

Blaise Pascal
Jansenist thinker;well-known for Pascal's law (physics), Pascal's theorem (math), and Pascal's Wager (theology).

Isaac Barrow
English divine, scientist, and mathematician. He wrote Expositions of the Creed, The Lord's Prayer, Decalogue, and Sacraments and Lectiones Opticae et Geometricae.[


Robert Boyle
Scientist and theologian who argued that the study of science could improve glorification of God.

John Wallis
As a mathematician he wrote Arithmetica Infinitorumis, introduced the term Continued fraction, worked on cryptography, helped develop calculus, and is further known for the Wallis product. He also devised a system for teaching the non-speaking deaf. He was also a Calvinist inclined chaplain who was active in theological debate.

John Ray
English botanist who wrote The Wisdom of God manifested in the Works of the Creation. (1691) The John Ray Initiative of Environment and Christianity is also named for him.

Gottfried Leibniz
Polymath who worked on determinants, a calculating machine, He was a Lutheran who worked with convert to Catholicism John Frederick, Duke of Brunswick-Lüneburg in hopes of a reunification between Catholicism and Lutheranism. He also wrote Vindication of the Justice of God.

Isaac Newton
He is regarded as one of the greatest scientists and mathematicians in history. His scientific fame notwithstanding, Newton's study of the Bible and of the early Church Fathers were among his greatest passions, though he consistently refused to swear his allegiance to the church. He wrote Observations upon the Prophecies of Daniel and the Apocalypse of St. John

Emanuel Swedenborg
His writing is the basis of Swedenborgianism and several of his theological works contained some science hypotheses, most notably the Nebular hypothesis for the origin of the Solar System.

Olinthus Gregory
He wrote Lessons Astronomical and Philosophical in 1793 and became mathematical master at the Royal Military Academy in 1802. An abridgment of his 1815 Letters on the Evidences of Christianity was done by the Religious Tract Society.

Charles Babbage
The Difference Engine and the Ninth Bridgewater Treatise.

Louis Pasteur
Inventor of the pasteurization method, a French chemist and microbiologist. He also solved the mysteries of rabies, anthrax, chicken cholera, and silkworm diseases, and contributed to the development of the first vaccines.

George Gabriel Stokes
A minister's son, he wrote a book on Natural Theology. He was also one of the Presidents of the Royal Society and made contributions to Fluid dynamics.

Lord Kelvin
He gave a famous address to the Christian Evidence Society. In science he won the Copley Medal, the Royal Medal, and was important in Thermodynamics.[

Dmitri Egorov
Russian mathematician who made significant contributions to the broader areas of differential geometry. He was an Imiaslavie who defended religion during the Soviet era. In 1930 the Soviets arrested and imprisoned him as a "religious sectarian." He died of a hunger strike in protest.

Max Planck
He won the 1918 Nobel Prize in Physics and is considered the founder of Quantum mechanics. He had been raised an observant Lutheran and was an elder in his church from 1920 to his death. In 1937 he delivered the lecture, "Religion and Natural Science", stating that both religion and science require a belief in God.

Richard Smalley
A Nobel Laureate in Chemistry known for buckyballs. In his last years he renewed an interest in Christianity and supported Intelligent design.

Freeman Dyson
He has won the Lorentz Medal, the Max Planck Medal, and the Lewis Thomas Prize. He also ranked 25th in The 2005 Global Intellectuals Poll. He has won the Templeton Prize and delivered one of the Gifford Lectures.

Henry F. Schaefer, III
He wrote Science and Christianity: Conflict or Coherence? ISBN 0-9742975-0-X and is a signatory of A Scientific Dissent From Darwinism. He was awarded the American Chemical Society Award in Pure Chemistry in 1979.

Francis Collins
He is the current director of the National Institutes of Health and former director of the US National Human Genome Research Institute. He has also written on religious matters in articles and in Faith and the Human Genome he states the importance to him of "the literal and historical Resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, which is the cornerstone of what I believe." He wrote the book The Language of God: A Scientist Presents Evidence for Belief.

John Lennox
Mathematician and Pastoral adviser. His works include the mathematical The Theory of Infinite Soluble Groups and the religion-oriented God's Undertaker – Has Science buried God? He has also debated religion with Richard Dawkins. He teaches at Oxford.

Jennifer Wiseman
She is Chief of the Laboratory for Exoplanets and Stellar Astrophysics at NASA Goddard Space Flight Center. An aerial of the Center is shown. In addition she is a co-discoverer of 114P/Wiseman-Skiff. In religion is a Fellow of the American Scientific Affiliation and on June 16, 2010 became the new director for the American Association for the Advancement of Science's Dialogue on Science, Ethics, and Religion.

Originally posted by digitalbluco
Some of the things people have replied in here has got me thinking. They (Christians, etc..) say that God loves everyone equally, so when a terrible person finds out how bad the things he did in his life was, he gets saved. So with that in mind, what is God's plan for sociopaths? Since they have no consciousness, they can never realize how much damage they have done, and will never regret any decisions they make along the way. Would they be called Satan's minions roaming the Earth? I would really like a religious reply to this if possible.

I probably worded the part about what Christians say wrong, but I hope you get what I mean.

i think at its simplest definition, humanity is sociopathic in various ways. whether it's considered sociopathic depends on what is currently mainstream thinking about sociopathy. although of course, there are extremes. i don't think the vessels fit for wrath/righteousness applies in the christian era. it's the time of grace and forgiveness, not the time of generational curses and never ending vengeance

reply to post by quadagent


hey don't forget j.r.r. tolkien and c.s. lewis, who were scholars and social scientists in their own right!

No? If a child was about to run out in front of a bus while chasing a ball, would you attempt to save their mortal life? WHY. Because you do answer to a higher authority. Your subconscious, your ego, your sense of right vs. wrong? Different name, same thing. I give mine a form and a name and a structure of understanding. I don't just react to the stimuli around me. And you weren't telling me why I shouldn't believe, but that I cannot practice my religion while you are around. I don't stop you from practicing yours and would respect it if you told me not to proselytize. But that rock-hard denial of allowing me to practice in your presence is a bit hypocritical isn't it?

Now what happens when nobody is nearby to help that child? Well, at least they're in "a better place". That's the go to line.

When your religion starts including me then there is a problem. I have to give it to the writers though; I mean, a belief system where your soul will be condemned if you don't abide? It's a work of art really. I can pick a handful of countries where your god has turned a blind eye to say the least.

reply to post by BrawleR

When your religion starts including me then there is a problem. I have to give it to the writers though; I mean, a belief system where your soul will be condemned if you don't abide? It's a work of art really. I can pick a handful of countries where your god has turned a blind eye to say the least.

i think the premise is, you have choices to make. and the warning is, what you decide will determine which direction you go in. sort of like, if you turn left on your bicycle, you can pretty much be assured, it will go left (barring things like gravity and other physics). in effect, it seems to suggest that your choices here, effect your destination later and you personally made that choice. if it was done under coersion, brain washing, forced indoctrination or any other type of manipulation, i doubt that counts as your decision but rather someone else playing god on your behalf. that people like to drag the later into the here and now, is where the most problems reside (people playing god for example)