Yes Republicans, there IS a global test...

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Originally posted by proximo

Originally posted by AliceBlackman
reply to post by proximo

 

for comparative purposes we should stip out the interest payments on the debt inherited by both glorious leaders to see the real picture of their out of control spending.....

OK - as you will see that is really not very different between administrations due the Fed keeping the interest rate artificially low

Interest expense per year
2011 492 billion - Estimate
2010 $413,954,825,362.17
2009 $383,071,060,815.42
AVERAGE 429.6 billion

2008 $451,154,049,950.63
2007 $429,977,998,108.20
2006 $405,872,109,315.83
2005 $352,350,252,507.90
2004 $321,566,323,971.29
2003 $318,148,529,151.51
2002 $332,536,958,599.42
2001 $359,507,635,242.4
Average 371 billion

If it makes you feel better take off the 60 billion per year off Obama's deficit, and take another 100 billion off for inflation

He is still running deficits more than 500% higher than Bush

edit on 7-8-2011 by proximo because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by CaptainIraq
What's happened to ATS? Why are we arguing with each other when we all really want the same thing? Have we all forgotten that NEITHER Democrats or Republicans that we voted for really give two ****s about us?

If you look at things honestly and objectively, pretty much every president/administration/congress for the past 30 years or so is equally responsible for the mess we're in right now. Why?

Oh yeah, because what we think of as "Democracy" is these days nothing more than cleverly disguised Plutocracy.

Money = Power.

If money is power, then is more money more power?
What is more powerful?
The dollar taken to the grave, or the dollar spent?
I see remarkable numbers in great digits.
What is a number?
Economics is a social construct.
Should not the economy be representative of its people's interactions, rather than the people interacting to influence the economy?
Is not a nation doomed when it turns on itself?
A precursor to global insanity that is

Originally posted by Evil_Santa
The people that keep pointing their finger at Obama and saying this is his fault, need only look at the differences in spending increases.

Obama's spending increases have only been at 9% of the GDP

Bush's were at 20% of the GDP.

Are you looking at it through the false rose colored glasses, starting at baseline budgeting???
Then yes.

If you want to join the real world, then no, you are wrong.

Originally posted by lost artistic
reply to post by macman

 

There is no doubht that we all knew this had to happen at some point.

Why is it that americans suddently are getting suprised about this money crisis. The rest of the world has been playing by the boring rules. Yes i know, not all countries, but many of us. And we all saw USA become America.

In the 90s all i knew about the US was that the president had grey hair and always was a republican, strange enough.. But i had respect for the Republicans because it seemed like economy was they're thing. And in a country where money is power it would be logical that the goverment was just alike.

But in the recent years this has changed in looks and politics, but the spending has been going up the last 20 years. First a gently slope and then full burst to the top.

You don't deserve it. Because it is bad. And we don't deserve it. Definently!

But yet again we're gonna ride the economic crazy ride because the politicians on both sides don't put their future to the side and take that responsibility they have. Wich one of them is your crazy tax system that is WAY off!.

Stop talking about socialism, its not real. I live in Norway and i live well.

I not just live well but get the treatement i need. Yes there is queue in many health related situations, But not even close to the US situation. We have a oil fund, but never use more than 4 % of oil money on the budget. In some years we will be independent from the oil and will then know that we can stand the future when the oil is gone.

This does not seem to be the situation in the US.

Just take this situation and make some noise so the politicians change your budget. You don't need to be the world police anymore. Actually, we never really asked...

We love yout country and much of your culture, but these days its like having bush as the population.

I know you have different views, but have you seen what the majority of the american voice has said out to the rest of the world?

I mean. Does the word Somalia ring a bell? Hama? Syria unrest? Italy with its 8th rank on world largest economy. If they fall.Well then hell is loose. And the EU don't have the money....

It suck to say it but it feels #ty having to be affected by your economy over and over again just because someone don't want to pay that extra it takes. And its not even that much.. Not a huge country, but many people.


And by the way... We pay 11 dollar per gallons while you pay around 4 dollars?? Its just crazy. The difference is that we pay a # load to the goverment.

So just fix it this time.

Remember that if you all cut down the usage of ice with one third you will be energy independent again...

Socialism!!!!!!Socialism!!!!!!Socialism!!!!!!Socialism!!!!!!Socialism!!!!!!Socialism!!!!!!Socialism!!!!!!Socialism!!!!!!Socialism!!!!!!Socialism!!!!!!

I will continue to talk about it, as I see it as an evil in the world.
If you like it, so be it. Great for you. And the $11 gallon of gas goes nicely with it.
You can keep it.



Thank for playing.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


Your Keynesian economic models are wrong.
I would petition Devry to refund you your money for all those Econ classes you took.


Stripping away the baseline budgeting from the Govt model shows that Obama does it bigger, faster and harder then Bush ever could have.

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

The housing bubble burst in 2006. That added to the problem, but the Bush recession started in 2002.

"Trickle down" economics do not work as stated. Supply-side is as much a myth as Jonah and the Whale, and you have to be absolutely deluded to believe in either. Stop hitting yourself, and open the door to reality.

Wasn't that due to the Dot com bubble?

Clinton's watch, right?

Originally posted by proximo

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
reply to post by beezzer

 

Beezzer, that is unquestionably the stupidest thing I have ever seen you say. Ever. And let's be fair, you've given yourself a lot of competition in this regards. You've just triumphed over yourself, and to be frank, i'm kind of looking on in awe. Your statement here was so utterly ridiculous that it went all the way around and became wildly impressive.

So bravo.

I think that if you look up facts, you'll see that the current administration's spending is about 1/8 that of the former Bush administration's. Granted, Obama's only had three years to Bush's eight, but if things remain constant, he'll still end up having spent less.


Yes, it #ing IS the Republicans' fault, and more to the point, it's YOUR fault for voting for the useless bastards.

edit on 6/8/2011 by TheWalkingFox because: (no reason given)

OK this is SO incredibly WRONG, and you obviously won't look up the statistics for yourself - so here you go buddy.

BUSH YEARS
Year Total Federal Spending Deficit
2001 1.863Trillion -127 billion
2002 2.011 Trillion 158 billion
2003 2.160 Trillion 377 billion
2004 2.293 Trillion 412 billion
2005 2.472 Trillion 318 billion
2006 2.655 Trillion 248 billion
2007 2.729 Trillion 160 billion
2008 2.983 Trillion 458 billion
TOTALS 19.166 Trillion 2.004 Trillion
AVERAGES 2.397 Trillion 250 billion

OBAMA YEARS
Year Total Federal Spending Deficit
2009 3.5 Trillion 1.412 Trillion
2010 3.5 Trillion 1.293 Trillion
2011 3.8 Trillion 1.645 Trillion
TOTALS 10.8 Trillion 4.35 Trillion
AVERAGES 3.6 Trillion 1.45 Trillion


So that means the Obama administration has spent 150% of the bush administration per year, and it has run deficits 580% !! higher per year

Obama has not spent 1/8 (12.5 %) as much as the Bush administration. His administration has spent 56% of the Bush total in just 3 years.

Instead of just listening to left wing propaganda try actually looking up the statistics, it will make you look far less foolish.

edit on 7-8-2011 by proximo because: Fixed formating

edit on 7-8-2011 by proximo because: (no reason given)

edit on 7-8-2011 by proximo because: Fixed typo for 2003

edit on 7-8-2011 by proximo because: (no reason given)

SSSSHHH!!!
You might bring down the house of cards.

I think they should of implemented the plan that the President, Barack Obama, and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid had written.
Oh wait, they didn't have a written plan did they? They didn't have a plan at all. They brought nothing to the debate at all. There was only a magic teleprompter blaming the evil oil companies and CEO's for the problems in America. Blame, Blame, Blame. No solutions, NO IDEA!!

And I couldn't believe how pissed Obama got when he had to cancel his golf outing because the deal wasn't passed.

If I were a Democrat, I'd be looking for someone to blame also. How embarrassing.

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
reply to post by professornurbs

 

Yup. 'Course. What's wrong with our state of affairs that that many people need assistance just to get food on the table?

Does it bother those on the right that your only solution is to end the program and let these folks go hungry?

Yep, because they are obviously to stupid to figure out how to provide for themselves.



You sure do hold people in high regards.

I think i am missing something here, or should i say the american congress is missing something. It is common sense to NEARLY all Americans (and the greater world community who is watching) that the spending needs to stop, yet still congress keeps the massive WANT budgets running for their own personal gain. Why have the Americans not called for the arrest of some of these corrupt officials?? Why is there not a bigger demand for the spending to stop??

If you actually marched in numbers you would see congress turn on itself and shove out scapegoats to save their own skins and get the changes you need!

Originally posted by SyphonX
What an utterly worthless thread of bickering and idiocy.

Absolutely !

All of these Political Threads end up this way it seems.

What is really sad about all of this is that Ross Perot warned us that this Fiscal mess was inevitable while running for the Presidency of the United States of America against Bush and Clinton 10 years ago.

Because our economy was in the dumps after Bush Senior, the herd predictably and by design ran to the opposite party of course, the Democrats...instead of Perot.

And here we are 10 years later exactly where Perot said we'd be ....

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
So today I wake up to read about the downgrade in our credit rating...

www.cnn.com...

And I was very surprised to read the following

"The downgrade reflects our opinion that the fiscal consolidation plan that Congress and the administration recently agreed to falls short of what, in our view, would be necessary to stabilize the government's medium-term debt dynamics," S&P said Friday shortly after markets closed.

So the S&P and other credit rating agencies sit in judgement of our congress... so there IS in effect a Global Test...

Now the representative from the S&P goes on to point out specifically one of the issues that greatly contributed to the downgrade.. and it's the Bush Tax cuts...

He pointed to the decision by Congress about whether to extend the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts as one crucial area. "If you let them lapse for the high-income earners, that could give you another $950 billion," he said.

You see Republicans... we do NOT live in a vacuum where we can do whatever we want... there IS a global test... one that we are now very painfully aware of....

Hopefully moving forward we will realize that there are consequences to our actions in the eyes of those who judge us and have the power to make that judgement a global and economic reality.

And for those who still believe it's Obamas policies... listen to what the S&P says..

Asked who was to blame, Chambers said, "This is a problem that's been a long time in the making -- well over this administration, the prior administration."

edit on 6-8-2011 by HunkaHunka because: (no reason given)

Just because someone from S&P quoted it doesn't mean they're right. Taxing ones way to prosperity is not the answer. Our government whether it be bush, obama, clinton have wasted our money. they have robbed the people they serve. The government taxes and spends itself into oblivion while increasing the burden of regulation and laws upon its people. The government has their hands in the pockets of every industry in this country taxing and taxing and taxing the people into oblivion. here is my way of getting us out of this Crisis.

1. Tax Re-form

- Get rid of this current tax system and reform it into a simple and more prosperous system that isn't a burden to the people.
- A tax system like either a flat tax or a fair tax in which the people are not bullied by the government or put in fear of the government and are not burdened by the thousands of tax laws they have instituted.

- corporate tax reform. our corporate taxes are the highest in the world and it hinders our economy.

2. Drastically reduce or rid Social programs

- Programs like Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Healthcare, US Mail need to be drastically reduced to nought or gone completely
- 2/3rds of the annual budget goes to fund these social programs. we have become a welfare state in which citizens suck the teat of the government for all its basic needs.
- your surprised i mentioned us mail. yes, largest monopoly on the planet. i suggest letting it go to the private sector they can run it more efficiently anyways than the US Snail

3. Balanced Budget Amendment

- Never understood why we never had this to begin with.

4. Lawsuit Reform (states,federal)

- this is long overdue people have become so suit happy that if you get the wrong topping on your pizza or spill a hot cup of coffee then thats a lawsuit waiting to happen.

- Medical Lawsuit is so out of hand Doctors can't provide services without inflated prices and inflated malpractice insurance.

5. Reduce all salaries and benefits of government officials.

- We have built a luxury system that has cripple people's ideas on being a public servant.
- People should not serve the people to get rich, fat, and enjoy all the benefits that its own citizens don't even enjoy. Not to mention sheilding themselves from their own laws that they create.

- A public servant to want the job of a congressman or president because they want to and see a need to serve the people. not self interest.

6. Get rid of Lobbyists

- Lobbyists swarm the capitol pressing our leaders with agendas that do not represent the needs of the people.

7. Attendance rules

- Inact attendance rules for those that govern the people. for example: For the eight years Kerry was on the Senate Intelligence Committee he was absent 76% of the time or Rep. J. Gresham Barrett (R-SC)—This South Carolina Congressman has missed 583 votes so far in the 111th Congress. That’s 43.6% of votes that he has missed.

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
reply to post by beezzer

 

Evidently you didn't read the words of the guy from S&P... he clearly stated the reasons... and they weren't Obamas policies...

He pointed to the decision by Congress about whether to extend the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts as one crucial area. "If you let them lapse for the high-income earners, that could give you another $950 billion," he said.

You really should read the full OP and reflect before posting

edit on 6-8-2011 by HunkaHunka because: (no reason given)

I did read the full post, so you are saying 3 wars, mx bailouts, the fact that the S&P sees that we did not cut 4 trillion LIKE THEY asked us too was no factor. we all know the recent "agreements" were fought over and as usual our leaders caved. If we would have chosen to do deeper cuts, and YES it is going to hurt.....but ridding one of cancer usually does..then we failed and we deserve it. WE have too many on the "give me free money rolls" and there are no jobs anyway. what we need is to get out of the federal reserve.....and the whole need for credit and balance out budget. Then provide jobs(maybe jobs first). Our jobs have went to China and out of the U.S. due to government taxation, and rules. Companies are doing what you would do if your local govt raised your taxes beyond what would make you profitable. You would move. Period. They did. Now lets address OBAMA. He is not leading but being led by the world globalists. He I thought would step up, now is his "crisis" and he has, is fumbling and fumbled the ball. He is NOT a leader but a puppet. He is way in over his head in the world game over all is either stupid or a pawn. So there it is not his fault. We are speeding toward a cliff and the sheeples are just hanging out........like one person said, as long as I have beer who cares......how easy we are to buy off.

reply to post by Keeper of Kheb


i like the attendance rule you put up there the best. if only they did their jobs!!!
they get more vacation than most jobs in the country, congress should be paid minimum federal wage and 1 week vacation annually. any absences in excess of 14 days annually forfeits their pay for the year entirely.

i am tired of deadbeats and criminals running the country, i didn't vote for any of those lazy dissembling, morons.

reply to post by MidnightTide

Eliminate many of these entitlement programs.

That's right. Let them eat cake. :shk:

reply to post by professornurbs


It absolutely bothers them because the hard left would prefer that it be 100%. That way, everyone would be eating the same thing - no lobster for rich folks and rice and beans for poor folks.

That is why the left has consistently pushed school lunches and now in some cases breakfasts and after school snacks and this was going on way before the current economic meltdown.

Regardless of what the program is, the left wants more folks on it. The more folks on it, the more evenly the wealth of society can be distributed. The more folks on it, the more power they have.

reply to post by nh_ee


You are absolutely correct. Perot and his little charts predicted with simple language this was going to happen and did it not in a crystal ball manner, but simply extrapolated the data. Plain and easy. "Change, or this is where we'll be. Here are some ideas for change". It is why he was hated by the establishment - he was their worst nightmare.

Sigh. More blind, dumb sheep playing into the left/right paradigm.

You're all ignorant. You're all fools. You're all doomed because of it.