New ATS Poll: The U.S. Debt Crisis

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by PurpleDog UK
Here's a sobering news story I have only just seen because I have been out all day............

Apple holding more cash than USA

Apple now has more cash to spend than the United States government.

Thats because Apple is actually providing something of value to society.

SORRY... i messed up with the quotes and editing !!!!! doh

Skyfloating

I have to say that there are definitly two sides to this BUT i still think that if I was an American National paying taxes to the American Governent so as they protect me then what your suggesting is that I should pay Apple instead because they are more honourable or trustworthy.......

We have reached a point in society and capitalism where alot have nothing and a few have too much.........Apple maybe providing something the people want...BUT the people were TOLD they wanted it by Apple advertising and marketing.............

It's a little like in the UK where some Council leaders are earning TWICE the salary of the Prime Minister, the man tasked with running UK plc.....how is that really possible ??? Council employees, people who work for the Government and US actually earning more than their boss??

edit on 29-7-2011 by PurpleDog UK because: (no reason given)

edit on 29-7-2011 by PurpleDog UK because: (no reason given)

it is a dog and pony show in washington right now and as it stands i hear not a peep about the federal reserve

that its one of the biggest things that need to be addressed if the value of the dollar doubled which is possible that means oil would go down because oil and the dollar are tied together and that means people are not spending as much cash of fuel and that means everyone to people and business and that also means people are pumping more money into the economy with means everyone is generating more tax revenue and that means more people have jobs and pay taxes which means government has taxes revenue.

but what do i know

took the poll and i forsee that last nail in the us coffin.

if the USA does default, the bankers/lenders/creditors won't loose out because they will collect more from the bond insurance they have taken out, if the debt ceiling is raised to $14t in the coming days, next year it will have to be raised again & it's just putting off the inevitable, exactly the same thing that the EU is doing to Greece, Ireland & Portugal.

it's not a question of IF the USA will default, it's WHEN.

i know this is a little contradictory, but the Republicans may want the USA to default because it will make Obama look bad, & Max Kaiser goes one step further ( i'm new here & am not sure on how Max Kaiser is viewed on here )
here is the interview anyway www.youtube.com... time index 3:40

Skewed polling is skewed, but I took it anyways. You all aren't professional and neutral poll makers, and I don't expect you to be. Thank you for taking the time to make the poll to look at the general opinion of your user base under constricting and limiting conditions.

I'd be interested to see the results.

Originally posted by SLAYER69 I hope that I'm replying to this correctly. If not, someone please show me how to correct my mistake.
During the mid 70's a friend gave me a book that described the future of world corporations. (I'm flustered that I cannot remember the title or author.) The information pointed to the conclusion that there would be five major corporations that would eventually control the commerce of the world. It conclusion. Those that have the most, have the most control.

Originally posted by PurpleDog UK
A Corporation has become so wealthy through Consumerism and Capitalism that it now has MORE CLOUT than the National Governent................that's sort of worrying in a way ??

PDUK

There was a book written a while ago that describes that very scenario. In it as part of the storyline the future will be Corporate waged wars between their various security forces against other Corporations and Nations. Under the guise of looking out for "their best interests"

Are we seeing the beginnings of this coming to pass?

Big oil?

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by Advantage

 

with this whole debt crisis Im finding that its NOT just the federal gov. Ive been in the middle of significant issues in my city and county government that have my brain smoking. This infection has trickled down to our localities.. and it is going to be a long and painful operation to remove it... if it even can be removed now.

What "infection" are you refering too? Details would be nice.

All I hear is people saying "stuff is wrong" and not really giving any details....which ironically IMO is what the majority of the problem is.

##SNIP##

Ive discussed it many times on here.. with details. IMO the majority of the problem, rather than people saying something is wrong.. is that some people act like baby birds that have to be told something.. have information chewed up and spit in their mouths. Some need to put others on the defensive to amuse themselves when they are too lazy to look into their own state of affairs in their own areas or too clouded by partisanship to see the reality. God forbid anyone look into their own city/county and get involved to figure it out. Much easier to get on a message board and play the concerned and righteous American and never get the hands dirty or stick the neck out.

I deal directly with my police department, a few social outreaches, and mayor ( who happens to be the chiefs superior as we have no commissioner) and the public on nearly a daily basis. I ran the local crime stoppers up until late last year. WIthin all of those contacts.. there are serious break downs and BS. I guess you need a list to figure out things arent a utopia? Im not sure what youre expecting.. me to make a wall of text with info about my town I guess? I thought it was obvious what local and federal corruption was and youd know what it is if you bothered to get involved in your own city/county. Our issues mainly are complete misappropriation of TIF funds, double taxing, essential services disruption but the mayor can pay millions for a piece of land thats in a flood plane.. which a friend of his was selling, and etc. If you want to see how this infection relates to you personally on a local level.. its simple. Get off of ATS for a bit and get involved.. then you dont have to ask for a list of whats wrong in mine. Im sure you dont live in my town and I am sure you dont live in an utopia.

The infection is greed, nepotism, ego, and spending like drunken sailors on shore leave. The infection is my chief of police having a disagreement with my prosecuting atty and they dont talk.. WTF.. ! My state is bankrupt and my town is so bankrupt that we cant even have an officer come out to take a report for robbery anymore... there is an online form which is essentially just for making a report for insurance purposes.With the recent mob actions the police stand aside until after its over.. there are not enough cops per criminal to do their job. A few of our very close friends are officers and they are in great danger here.. that they wouldnt be in if the mayor would hire more and stop acting like the funds are his personal piggy bank... so much so he used TIF funds to put money into his family orchard at OUR expense. I posted the links elsewhere.. something like 1000 citizens per one cop.. and cant hire anymore because so much is spent frivolously. Like redoing main street 3 times in 2 yrs because he enjoys the art fair..hiring his buddy's company to do the work and claiming the engineer messed up the design 2 times.... but letting whole neighborhoods sewer lines crush and left in such disrepair they are abandoning the homes or living with raw sewage in their basements. Our city engineer things water runs uphill.. so he hires the same company to redo a neighborhood, which is now crumbling and the homes shifting due to it not being packed down.. and insurance wont cover it for the homeowners. The town over in my county is highly corrupt and that once all american city ( as it was designated) has fallen into a pit worse than detroit ever considered being. Look up East St Louis... maybe get a clue that things are NOT a utopia even if you dont see it from the computer monitor.

The above wall of text is a direct reflection of how things are run on a federal level. If you need to do the usual pick pick and bicker.. do it on another thread. Make one. I will be back on later tonight or tomorrow when I have a chance.

edit to add.. on top of that.. I get to deal with hungry children ( not getting free breakfast adn lunch in school since its summer.. who feeds them? we do because their parents dont care or cant do it) , completely empty food banks, homeless shelter being closed down ( thanks mayor), panhandling legalized ( thanks mayor), homeless living in parks and peoples garages, elderly hungry and a few died recently because we dont have the means to get folks to check on them.. etc etc ad nauseum. We are just a few people.. we cant do all of it and NO ONE will get off the computer to do a damned thing for their fellow citizens.
If you care to see reality BEFORE a default.. get outside a little.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


You predicted this quite accuratley almost 2 years ago.

"Damn The Country, Obama Must Fail"
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Obama is a joke and an a$$hole that is used to getting his way.
It is apparent to me that he allows his pride to govern his policies and doesn't cotton too well to compromise.

Neither side is without fault, but they are too wrapped up in convincing everyone that the other is the "devil manipulating the details" to really get anywhere on anything.

Skeptic Overlord-- I liked your other avatars much better. This one's just really not you, IMO.

In other words, "Yes, your a$$ does look fat in those pants, so you may want to change them."
(insert LOL icons here.....)

Our government is run by corruption.

The ticks are bloated and killing the dog.

We need to downsize our government, ending our foreign wars.

There has always been enough money for Social Security, they just looted it and now pretend they didn't.

A little study of history puts all their BS in perspective.

Telling the truth is a revolutionary act when you are living in a world gone crazy with the bought out media spewing lies, propaganda and insanity.

Greed has reached unimaginable heights and they just want more.

Unless we somehow get these corrupt insiders out they are going to kill our country.

Many are actively trying so then they can integrate us into a global government that will be worse. At least now we have some protection on paper...

Originally posted by PurpleDog UK
if I was an American National paying taxes to the American Governent so as they protect me then what your suggesting is that I should pay Apple instead because they are more honourable or trustworthy.......

I didnt say you should pay Apple taxes because they are more honourable.What I said was that there is a reason why some entities succeed and others go into debt.

We have reached a point in society and capitalism where alot have nothing and a few have too much.........

What is it you think they need? Many of the poor in America drive cars, have TVs, have Internet, have Food. Luckily we have plenty of Corporations who provide employment for them. More importantly, many of them have family. If it werent for Business, they might be starving like they do elsewhere in the world.

And about those that have "too much": Why do you judge people who appear to have more? Kudos to them if they have more. Why is it your concern what others have?

And finally: How is bigger Government and higher debt (which is basically the same thing) going to help the situation?

The debt ceiling has been steadily being raised since the 1970s,making Government bigger and bigger. Has it improved our situation?

If you personally have debt, how does it improve your situation if I allow you to increase your debt? Wouldnt you rather have the short-term pain of not getting new debt than the perpetual horrors of postponing the inevitable?

Apple maybe providing something the people want...BUT the people were TOLD they wanted it by Apple advertising and marketing.............

In saying that you are suggesting that people are not responsible for their actions. That belief implies the need for bigger Government to assume responsibility for you.

Originally posted by stupid girl
Obama is a joke and an a$$hole that is used to getting his way.
It is apparent to me that he allows his pride to govern his policies and doesn't cotton too well to compromise.

Neither side is without fault, but they are too wrapped up in convincing everyone that the other is the "devil manipulating the details" to really get anywhere on anything.

Skeptic Overlord-- I liked your other avatars much better. This one's just really not you, IMO.

In other words, "Yes, your a$$ does look fat in those pants, so you may want to change them."
(insert LOL icons here.....)

Meh, I dont like Obama any more than I did Bush. I was hoping he would do better.. but you get what you get. Im of the idea our votes mean very little. Now its time to chuck em all out. Every last one of them and make term limits. yeah, I know.. I must be dreaming..

I gotta get off here and do some junk. Damn the "dangerous heat"! I blame Obama for this heatwave.. and bush.. and reagan.

reply to post by neo96

The US currently spend over $1B annually to it's top dog, Israel. Instead of trying to cut medicare, social security and necessary programs, they should think about trimming some of those unnecessary dollars going to Israel.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
What is it you think they need? Many of the poor in America drive cars, have TVs, have Internet...
>snip<
And about those that have "too much": Why do you judge people who appear to have more...

I see the problem as the increasing lack of "average" middle-class people between those who are struggling to get by and barely meeting necessities from paycheck-to-paycheck, and those at the upper tear who are positioned to take advantage of just about financial market movement in any direction.

The middle ground is getting more and more sparse, with those who aren't in the "struggling to get by" category, skewing ever closer each month.

Over the decades, every aspect of the "average" person's ability to save and improve their situation has been converted into securities of some type, used in the "casinos" of the top-tier. One big bad bet (mortgage backed securities), and everyone but the top tier loses. Even after the fact, when the politicians look for money from the populace to help the top tier recoup their losses.

Loaning the government money from the companies I invest in for years now
see the lowest return and Bush starts to pay out the crooks with bailouts
till the next one gets in office. Loans to the government needs a boots so
whatever happens I want more money going my way.

reply to post by Jaellma


doesnt make one bit of difference how much is cut and what is cut if the issue of the federal reserve isnt addressed.

one 1913 dollar equals over $22 of todays dollars and the federal reserve has consistently destroyed american wealth.

if that dollar has more value it goes alot further that could translate to cheaper goods and prices for consumer goods and well the more bang for the buck so to speak goes a long way addressing the goverment spending problem.

the us government has us treasuries and taxation to generate government funding and that means if people are spending more and getting more that in istelf is a mean of wealth and job creation in which all that extra cash ends right back to the government.

cuts across the board will do nothing without address other causes of the current financial situation.

nothing says anyone has to agree with what i am saying but i consider the democrats/republicans dog and pony show as just a slighty hipper "extreme makeover" that solves nothing.

Originally posted by PhoenixOD
Im not American so im not bothered either way.

Our national news tells us that raisng the debt celing will only delay the inevitable so good luck with that

edit on 29-7-2011 by PhoenixOD because: (no reason given)

Yep , I think all national news outside of the US is proberly saying the same thing .

The writing has been on the wall for along time I have heard.
But now I read that our Government has recently also put our country into billions of debt money to China , for no reason at all except to jump on the finacial crisis bandwagon and give the peoples money away and then borrow heaps of money from foreign sources just so the country could collaspse eventually under a debt burden that was not needed in the first place .

So thats how a country is undone I have learnt .

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


I certainly agree that the middle-class is the backbone of modern society

If the debt ceiling is raised again, where do you think it will lead?

Originally posted by Jaellma
reply to post by neo96

 

The US currently spend over $1B annually to it's top dog, Israel. Instead of trying to cut medicare, social security and necessary programs, they should think about trimming some of those unnecessary dollars going to Israel.

That is exactly what i dont understand about money management . Why do you tell your citizen they cant get there pension checks as the coffers are empty , then continue to send vast amounts of money abroad to this and that cause and country .

reply to post by SkepticOverlord

I see the problem as the increasing lack of "average" middle-class people between those who are struggling to get by and barely meeting necessities from paycheck-to-paycheck, and those at the upper tear who are positioned to take advantage of just about financial market movement in any direction.

You mean that same "Middle Class" that was once upon a time supported by good paying manufacturing jobs which have since been outsourced abroad by those very same Honorable corporation in search of the bottom line profit margins?

That dwindling middle class?

Originally posted by Skyfloating
If the debt ceiling is raised again, where do you think it will lead?

To the debt ceiling being raised again......

"This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend......"