Shock Study? Exposure to American Flag Only Boosts GOP

Originally posted by Kryties
You know, I've never understood the whole thing with the American flag. While every country has it's flag there are not too many who seem to worship it as Americans do. North Koreans and the Chinese maybe, and looking back in history the Nazi's had an iconic flag - you'd think America would do it's best to avoid having that comparison made.

It's bloody everywhere - in every American movie I've seen they manage to jam an image of some hero standing in front of an American flag - usually in slow-motion to increase the 'meaning' of it. It's truly gag-worthy to anyone looking in from the outside. All I see is a symbol of a tyrannous empire forcing it's culture and patriotism on the rest of the world and telling us to lump it when we complain.

Anyways, if this article is true it just goes to prove how many people have been thoroughly indoctrinated by state propaganda - the fact that looking at a flag can influence who you vote for is crystal clear evidence of this. I mean who cares if the person is advocating mass slaughter or an intergalactic war with the flying spagetti monster - as long as they stand by the beloved 'Stars and Stripes' right?

edit on 21/7/2011 by Kryties because: (no reason given)

Kryties you make some excellent points. I flew our USA flag every day after we bought our home. This went on for some 16 years. Then my nephew started helping me with fixing things around the house. He was unemployed for some time - no one building things in our area, none of the painters had work. We spent a lot of time talking over coffee. Wow, did I wake up. And I wound up here on ATS.

I folded our flag properly for the last time about 1 1/2 yrs ago. The flag was added to a large pile of flags that aged and tattered, too worn to display properly. Some day I will take them where they are properly disposed of.

I will never again fly the flag of my country. My eyes are open, my ears have heard. I am ashamed of what I was once proud of. Patriotism is one of the prime motivating tools used on people and it is very effective.

These TV & Movie displays of the almighty red, white & blue is reason aplenty to speak every day with people: family, friends, neighbors, co-workers, strangers on line at the bank, the person sitting next to you eating pizza at lunch time.

Carefully & lovingly placing seeds of truth in peoples ears will make a difference. Ranting and raving will not. Keep hope. Have faith. Speak with someone every day. Spread the words. Tell them the truths.

Too many people around the globe Hate America and Americans, and many are right to do so. We the many cannot allow the few to continue their perverted manipulation, control and destruction. Everyday Americans should be living in a country they can truly take pride in. This has not existed in my lifetime, and I'm old enough to remember JFK's funeral procession on black & white TV.

Should the day come when we are no longer at war, when the USA military/mercenaries/businesses are not exploiting other countries and their people for corporate profit, when wrongs are made right and the country is not lead by lying, mentally ill scumbags, that is the day I will again fly a American flag.

reply to post by LargeFries

Kryties you make some excellent points. I flew our USA flag every day after we bought our home. This went on for some 16 years. Then my nephew started helping me with fixing things around the house. He was unemployed for some time - no one building things in our area, none of the painters had work. We spent a lot of time talking over coffee. Wow, did I wake up. And I wound up here on ATS.

I folded our flag properly for the last time about 1 1/2 yrs ago. The flag was added to a large pile of flags that aged and tattered, too worn to display properly. Some day I will take them where they are properly disposed of.

I will never again fly the flag of my country. My eyes are open, my ears have heard. I am ashamed of what I was once proud of. Patriotism is one of the prime motivating tools used on people and it is very effective.

These TV & Movie displays of the almighty red, white & blue is reason aplenty to speak every day with people: family, friends, neighbors, co-workers, strangers on line at the bank, the person sitting next to you eating pizza at lunch time.

Carefully & lovingly placing seeds of truth in peoples ears will make a difference. Ranting and raving will not. Keep hope. Have faith. Speak with someone every day. Spread the words. Tell them the truths.

Too many people around the globe Hate America and Americans, and many are right to do so. We the many cannot allow the few to continue their perverted manipulation, control and destruction. Everyday Americans should be living in a country they can truly take pride in. This has not existed in my lifetime, and I'm old enough to remember JFK's funeral procession on black & white TV.

Should the day come when we are no longer at war, when the USA military/mercenaries/businesses are not exploiting other countries and their people for corporate profit, when wrongs are made right and the country is not lead by lying, mentally ill scumbags, that is the day I will again fly a American flag.

I am glad that you do not fly the flag anymore. And thrilled that you will never fly it again.

You do not deserve to fly the flag.

You have no idea what the flag stands for.

You have been brainwashed by your nephews and the wild-eyed kooks here on ATS. That is where you belong, with them.

The flag does not stand for corporatists or exploitation. It stands for a dream, a goal of freedom and equality and God given rights that we strive for every day.

It stands for the freedom that allows you to write such hate-filled venom without having your neck stretched, as it would be in so many other nations.

It stands for everything that millions are risking their lives for to join. Unlike other countries where people are not allowed to freely leave. As in prisoners.

Maybe you would be happier in such a country.

You choose to equate it to a government. You are so wrong that it is unbelievable. I am surprised that at your age you have been so bamboozled by fringe lunatics.

You say you will only again fly it:

when we are no longer at war, when the USA military/mercenaries/businesses are not exploiting other countries and their people for corporate profit, when wrongs are made right and the country is not lead by lying, mentally ill scumbags,

By then the hard work by true patriots will have been done, while you sat on your ass and whined. When your efforts are no longer needed.

So, good. Put your flag away. Do not even donate it, as it has been soiled by the fact that you denied it and abandoned it.

You have not earned the right to fly the flag.

reply to post by mishigas


A response to be expected. It's easier to just claim someone isn't patriotic enough and should consider moving out of the country than it is to actually discuss the topic intelligently isn't it?

Thankyou for proving our point.

reply to post by Kryties

A response to be expected. It's easier to just claim someone isn't patriotic enough and should consider moving out of the country than it is to actually discuss the topic intelligently isn't it?

Thankyou for proving our point.

Pick one meaningless line from the post and ignore everything else. Cherrypicking libs, always looking for the excuse to avoid debate.

Originally posted by Kryties
reply to post by WhoKnows100

 

Could have fooled me. The way Americans flock to their flag and dote over it is reminiscent of seeing religious crowds worship their gods. Why put it everywhere? Why get so defensive over it when it is questioned? Americans have a deep emotional attachment to the flag that, in my opinion, is unhealthy to say the least.

You should see Northern Ireland (ex-terrorists run the government there thanks to UK negociating and giving into demands to them) for flag waving, it is basically a pissing contest for terratory even then they fly french flags pretending it to be a UK tricolour lol, stupid people, and even then do they fly the tricolour Irish flag in the UK, really all it is is a pissing contest.

If you look in more civilised parts of Europe, for example, Scandanavia, you will see they have laws on what size of flag to fly and where and when, and only then can they put up larger flags during officially sanctioned days.

Theose countries are far more patriotic and nationlistic than even America but you don't see them using the flag as a pissing contest like American's and paramilitaries in Northern Ireland do.

reply to post by mishigas


Fine, I'll pick it apart line-by-line.....

Originally posted by mishigas
reply to post by LargeFries

 

I am glad that you do not fly the flag anymore. And thrilled that you will never fly it again.

You do not deserve to fly the flag.

You have no idea what the flag stands for.

So instead of actually addressing the points in that posters post, you instead attack him and accuse him of not being worthy enough to fly the flag.

You have been brainwashed by your nephews and the wild-eyed kooks here on ATS. That is where you belong, with them.

LOL. That's about all this sentence is worth replying with. What are you doing here on ATS then?

The flag does not stand for corporatists or exploitation. It stands for a dream, a goal of freedom and equality and God given rights that we strive for every day.

And yet is used by the corporitists and exploiters to trick the populace into thinking everything is rosy while they steal the very ground from under your feet. That's the whole point of what we have been saying in this thread - but you decided to go down the road of calling us "America-haters" instead of using your head and thinking for once.

It stands for the freedom that allows you to write such hate-filled venom without having your neck stretched, as it would be in so many other nations. It stands for everything that millions are risking their lives for to join. Unlike other countries where people are not allowed to freely leave. As in prisoners.

So many other nations? I can think of maybe 3 or 4 that would do that - certainly not "many". There's your indoctrination mate, you've been tricked into believing America is the only nation on Earth that allows those freedoms.

Maybe you would be happier in such a country.

There you go again, instead of debating the topic intelligently you add little jibes like this in.

You choose to equate it to a government. You are so wrong that it is unbelievable. I am surprised that at your age you have been so bamboozled by fringe lunatics.

You've completely missed our point. Completely.

You say you will only again fly it:

when we are no longer at war, when the USA military/mercenaries/businesses are not exploiting other countries and their people for corporate profit, when wrongs are made right and the country is not lead by lying, mentally ill scumbags,

By then the hard work by true patriots will have been done, while you sat on your ass and whined. When your efforts are no longer needed.

I consider the "true patriot" to be the one questioning everything - not being blindly swayed by emotional patriotism.

So, good. Put your flag away. Do not even donate it, as it has been soiled by the fact that you denied it and abandoned it.

You have not earned the right to fly the flag.

And back to the attack again - what's the point of saying this unless you are just trying to hurt someone elses feelings hmmm? How is this constructive or intelligent?

To be honest this thread is starting to remind me of a scene from Billy Madison - the bit where the O'Doyle family drive off a cliff still chanting "O'Doyle Rules"......

Originally posted by zookey

Theose countries are far more patriotic and nationlistic than even America but you don't see them using the flag as a pissing contest like American's and paramilitaries in Northern Ireland do.

Precisely - in the case of America they use it as a tool of control.

Pity some people can't see past the blinders they have on.

Is it a mistake to assume that republicans represent america better than democrats?

And thus, that a flag better represents republicans than democrats since a flag represents america?

What are the parties when you boil away the excess? They're each a moral compass. They tell you which way is north towards evil and which way is south towards good. But they're even more than that. They tell you whether you support your country or not, apparently!

The issue of whether you support america or not depends on what you think is right and wrong and how it fits with the republican or democrat parties. Right and wrong is driven by idealogy - the newer brain - and base impulses that originate in the primitive brain. For example, I'd consider opposition to murder a base impulse that has its source in the primitive brain. However, social issues like sex change operations and choosing not to wear a veil on your face are likely rooted in the newer brain because of their absence or obscurity in history and changing, diverse natures. So our brain influences our set of rights and wrongs, depending on the nature of the issue. But how do these things mix with the republican and democrat parties? That's probably something determined afterwards; after a person has judged an issue's morality. They will inevitably be drawn to whichever party best represents their moral compass. If they're drawn to the democrats then they will feel less american. Conversely, in the other direction, they'll feel more american.

So what do the parties think? On the primitive side, Republicans generally oppose gay marriage. Democrats generally support it. Gay issues probably ignite fears in our primitive brain that hail from millions of years ago. This is because there's a long history of homosexuality in humans and other animals; this fear has had lots of time to simmer. This is speculation on my part, somewhat. It could be that fear of homosexuality is part of the new brain in some way. But I'm assuming here that it's not and mostly a product of evolution. So it probably requires considerable new brain activity to override any latent fears of homosexuality. Republicans can say that democrats are foolish and destructive, while democrats can say that republicans are primitive and unwavering.

What about in the new brain, are there any examples of what the two parties think? To find an example, we have to search for an issue that doesn't have an obvious precedent stretching back potentially millions of years. One obvious clue is reasoning. Reasoning is, in large part, a new development. Throughout evolution there're examples of reasoning, so it's not cut and dry, but modern humans display a wider variety of it that sets them apart from their ancestors. We respond almost instinctively to primitive fears, whereas, when we reason through something, we're participating in an activity that's more malleable and cultured. Thus, it's more changing and you can see a diverse mix of it all across the world. I gave sex change operations as an example in one of hte above paragraphs, but I'm sure that this sets off a primitive fear in us as well. The thing is, sex change operations were not possible in the past, therefore, it's difficult to find a precedent. The fear that's present is likely a generic fear that we all have when confronted with something new. So while I hesitate to say it's part of the new brain, I also cannot say it's wholly primitive. That's because we will automatically fear anything that doesn't register immediately in our primitive brain. In any case, republicans are widely against sex change operations while democrats are more accepting of it.

There're lots of things one can do to paint one party as evil and the other as good. It doesn't matter which side you're on. My post here is not guided in one direction or another. I merely am asking some questions and looking at the parties and figuring out how we arrive at our rights and our wrongs. Fundamentally, our rights and our wrongs fit too conveniently with our political ideology for it to be mistaken as anything else. And if you cannot get everyone to agree on rights and wrongs then you cannot have everyone in the same party since political ideology is so closely tied with our rights and our wrongs. But the potential that party ideology can be linked to the nation itself is something I've never considered much. But it begs the question: if you cannot have everyon in the same party because you cannot get everyone to agree what's right and wrong, then how will you rally and sustain your country if only a single party is representative?

reply to post by jonnywhite


No! A nation's flag is imbued with symbolism FOR ALL its citizens, not to be taken up by a select/chosen group as a symbol of patriotic purity. Patriotism should never be cloth deep. Patriotism is LOVE for one's country. Patriotism is found in the heart of the citizen.

Just as in any healthy relationship, a citizen's relation to his/her country needs to involve questioning power, not blind acceptance to authority, holding that power to accountability, acknowledging imperfections but striving to become a better nation in an ever changing, increasingly complex world.

To do less or otherwise is an abusive, unhealthy relationship, a giving up of citizen power to govt abuse. No one should be in an abusive relationship, personal or national.

We are Americans, for God's sake, in a country founded upon questioning authority and refusing to be abused!

Equally to be avoided were burning the flag and telling fellow citizens to "love it or leave it".

Originally posted by WhoKnows100
No flaw, yes propaganda.
Plant a seed...plant another seed....fertilise it a bit....watch it grow.

A nations ideology must be stripped in order to effect "change"....

THEY ARE NOW TEACHING THE NEW GENERATION TO HAVE STOCKHOLM SYNDROME. THEY ARE NOW TEACHING THE NEW GENERATION TO HAVE STOCKHOLM SYNDROME.

TORRENT LOCATION; www.demonoid.me...



page 18 OF 1500

Introduction to the compendium - “2083” - THE NORWEGIANS MANIFESTO


The introductory chapter explains how “cultural” Marxism gradually infiltrated our post-WW2 societies. It is essential to understand how it started in order to comprehend our current issues. The chapter was written for the US specifically but applies to Western Europe as well.




Introduction - What is “Political Correctness”?

One of conservatism’s most important insights is that all ideologies are wrong. Ideology takes an intellectual system, a product of one or more philosophers, and says, “This system must be true.” Inevitably, reality ends up contradicting the system, usually on a growing number of points. But the ideology, by its nature, cannot adjust to reality; to do so would be to abandon the system.

Therefore, reality must be suppressed. If the ideology has power, it uses its power to undertake this suppression. It forbids writing or speaking certain facts. Its goal is to prevent not only expression of thoughts that contradict what “must be true,” but thinking such thoughts. In the end, the result is inevitably the concentration camp, the gulag and the grave.

But what happens today to Europeans who suggest that there are differences among ethnic groups, or th

reply to post by Kryties


SOME people who are also Americans appear to have a deep seated emotional attachment to their flag that borders on reverence.

MANY people who happen to be Americans wouldn't give a squirt, one way or the other.

reply to post by desert

It's equally relevant that in 'The End of Morality" in the recent July/Aug issue of Discover, a research study headed by Cornell psychologist David Pizarro found that the presence of a hand-sanitizer dispenser nearby to the exam takers had an appreciable impact on their conservative/liberal leanings. In fact, they became more conservative with its presence and less conservative in its absence. Pizarro said, "What the hand sanitizers seemed to do was increase a sense of vigilance or concern over contamination." The article itself is about moral judgment and how our snap judgments and reasoning activities are separate. In simpler terms, this means that reasoning through a moral judgment is often times more effective than a gut feeling. This is even more true in our modern world where changes are fast paced and multi-cultural in nature.

What I believe is happening is that we're changing our world so rapidly that our evolved senses and appetites do not know how to react. Our brain was made for a simpler, less abstracted world. Or that's how it seems. This is why reasoning through our moral judgments has such significant benefits over snap judgments in so many day to day activities that confront us in the modern world; these activities are something new, or not anticipated accurately.

Could the flag be like the hand sanitizer in that study?

reply to post by Kryties

The flag does not stand for corporatists or exploitation. It stands for a dream, a goal of freedom and equality and God given rights that we strive for every day.

And yet is used by the corporitists and exploiters to trick the populace into thinking everything is rosy while they steal the very ground from under your feet. That's the whole point of what we have been saying in this thread - but you decided to go down the road of calling us "America-haters" instead of using your head and thinking for once.

This is what I mean. To you, America is some nebulous group of "corporitists and exploiters". Some group that gets automatic roars from the crowd but is actually vapor propaganda. Class warfare, a la Obama and socialists.

Ignorance at it's finest.

To true Americans the flag represents the good spirit that built this country and fights to keep it free.

I am proud to belong to this group.

It stands for the freedom that allows you to write such hate-filled venom without having your neck stretched, as it would be in so many other nations. It stands for everything that millions are risking their lives for to join. Unlike other countries where people are not allowed to freely leave. As in prisoners.

So many other nations? I can think of maybe 3 or 4 that would do that - certainly not "many". There's your indoctrination mate, you've been tricked into believing America is the only nation on Earth that allows those freedoms.

Of course you can only think of 3 or 4. That's because you are an apologist for most of them.

You choose to equate it to a government. You are so wrong that it is unbelievable. I am surprised that at your age you have been so bamboozled by fringe lunatics.

You've completely missed our point. Completely.

You have no "point". Just a bunch of platitudes of "The Man" holding you down.

You say you will only again fly it:

when we are no longer at war, when the USA military/mercenaries/businesses are not exploiting other countries and their people for corporate profit, when wrongs are made right and the country is not lead by lying, mentally ill scumbags,

By then the hard work by true patriots will have been done, while you sat on your ass and whined. When your efforts are no longer needed.

I consider the "true patriot" to be the one questioning everything - not being blindly swayed by emotional patriotism.

Oh yeah, the "constant questioner". It's so easy to ask ask ask so that you can avoid having to answer, isn't it? You see this as patriotism. I see it as similar to a petulant 3 yr old asking Why? to everything we say.

And go ahead and accuse others of "being blindly swayed by emotional patriotism". Shows how little you know. How arrogant of you to presume to know others feelings in their hearts!

So, go tilt at your windmills of "corporitists and exploiters". They exist in every group since humanity began, yet you try to announce it as some new, brilliant, profound discovery. Ignorance at it's best. And naivete, too.

reply to post by jonnywhite


Interesting. As one who is almost finished reading The Social Animal by David Brooks, I am learning about the impact of unconscious and conscious brain levels and thinking that your cited study might be along those lines. I will have to look it up.

Hmmmmm, the flag if it were in the study....I don't know...the hand sanitizer has one intended purpose only.... maybe, if the flag were made to serve one purpose....which seems to have happened, after the flag burning of the anti-war protesters in the 1960s....

A couple years ago I was walking on a dirt road barely lit by only starlight, when, in mid-step, I heard right in front of me a loud, vigorous rattle-rattle-rattle. I did a 180 in mid-step and ran so fast I could have pushed Marion Jones out of the way. Yes, that was the kind of survival snap judgment built into me, the kind my ancestors needed to survive.

Yes, the world around me has certainly been made increasingly more complex. The fast pace of everything actually, then, demands more time to reason. I am thinking back to the Cold War era, when the almost instantaneous attack resulting in nuclear devastation called for changes to military/diplomatic protocols. If one could blow up one's enemy so easily and thoroughly, that required a different set of rules.

In today's world we seem to be doing a lot of harm on a daily basis, when we don't even take the time to think, "What Harm is this action going to do?" "What is a better approach?" For ex, just because I can instantly upload something onto the internet, should I?