Modern Poverty Includes A.C. and an Xbox

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by Frira

 

You don't believe people in America, much less Somalia die of the heat? You don't believe in heat-stroke?

Heat stroke from working hard on a tar roof? YES! Heat stroke from relaxing in the shade on the porch with some fresh, clean drinking water, NO!

I said people don't die from not having Air Conditioning. They might die from other complications related to heat, but it isn't just from lack of air conditioning. I live in Florida. I've gone weeks without air conditioning. I used to live in Missouri, I used to do Football 2-a-day practices in August, I'm still here.

For that matter-- when is the last time you saw a news-report about the plight (or causes?) of American homeless?

Almost missed this part, LOL! Why do I need a news report? I've worked very closely with the homeless, and I still do from time to time. I don't need some talking head reporter with a corporate agenda to tell me the cause, I'll just ask the homeless thank you. Please don't presume to know more from your magical boob tube, than I know from my actual hands-on experience.

Once again, if you don't believe me, drive down and check it out for yourself.

edit on 19-7-2011 by getreadyalready because: (no reason given)

Really? Laughing out Loud about this? Do you now?

Funny, I work with the homeless, and my assumption is that you live a comfortable life-- quite remote from the needs and issues faced by those less fortunate. Maybe I am wrong. I am not faulting you, but I have never met anyone who "works closely with the homeless" who would write what you have written.

I have watched volunteers who behave with revulsion when encountering the poor. I am certain, that like you, they go back and tell their friends that they "worked with the homeless" and that the only real problem is that "the homeless just don't take care of themselves."

I have listened to volunteers carry bags of groceries to a modest house and then complain on the long ride back that they wished they could have the TV they saw inside that house.

But those of us work with, and not AT, the homeless know much more about what is going on which is not easily seen-- and not ours to tell. I don't even bother to suggest that there is more to the story to such volunteers. I don't want them around-- they would be better off clearing their consciences by writing a check.

Only a few, a rare few I guess, can face the pain with empathy. For most, they merely satisfy themselves that they need not do anything at all-- that it is not a real problem-- just lazy people.

I don't blame you-- you are in a very large majority in this country of people who cannot face the horror of real life led by others without fearing for their own security. But you do harm the hopeless and the forsaken when you blame them-- and you do violence when you claim to know them and to serve them, and yet deny the pain they live-- a life in which you would not likely survive.

Almost all of them are past suicide. Thousands in this county alone-- they have no one-- no advocates, but plenty of accusers. The weak ones-- those ended it long before it got that bad. Somalians live it every day, but their society does not expect more of them. Ours does, and when people fail to meet our expectations of them, it is a rare thing for us, collectively, to ask ourselves if perhaps our expectations of others is not realistic.

This is what does not happen-- not even from our social services bureaucrats:

"Hey, buddy. I have a dollar, but how about that and a bite to eat and a cup of coffee with me?"

Then, at table, ask, "What happened? Is there anything I can do to help? How did this start? How did you get here?"

Then, you listen. Sometimes, a person will open up and tell the pain of the horror and the horror of the pain they keep locked up inside. But they rarely do that, and almost never unless they are talking to someone who knows the pain and the horror. There is no point in talking to someone who has no frame of reference to even begin to understand-- and so you must understand, getreadyalready, that I write for others, but only as if I write to you.

It is alright. It is not your gift, and so it is not your fault; but please, stop your violence-- please stop contradicting those of us who know. The poor have had too much already.

Great another thread to further help seperate people because of their class and wealth.

This is what it has become,tax payers hate people because they arent a tax payer...

These days, a cell phone is pretty much a necessity. And just because you can get by without it doesn't make it any less important. Heck, I can get by on 4 hours sleep. Doesn't make it any less dangerous. And just because they have this stuff doesn't mean that they didn't get it from relatives, friends, good-will, etc.

My sister's got a pretty nice computer...because I gave it to her. She's got a Wii...because her ex gave it to her for the kids. See how that works? Just because they've got x,y,z don't mean nothing. Obviously, there's people that milk the system, but that's going to happen with any system.

Another thing, especially these days, is that people who had a good life before are suddenly finding themselves without a lot of money. Rich folks are sinking to poverty. I don't see how the 30 bucks that they'll get for that game console or the 50 they'd get for that t.v. is really gonna make a difference.

They might put off going on assistance another month or two by having a bare house. And then what'll they do? Sit around twiddling their thumbs? Those distractions are important; they keep otherwise productive people occupied just enough so that they don't go crazy or commit suicide and they keep their kids just entertained enough to where they're not turning to delinquents.

And that's really my whole deal. These programs keep people up just enough to where they're not having to resort to crime. Do people do it anyway? Yes. But all you got to do is look at U.S. disaster areas to realize how much worse it could get. Lots of people on gov. aid are single mothers...and momma's gonna feed them kids; she'll hold the Pope at gunpoint and not think twice about it.

I'd like to add something to your statistics: did you bother looking at the percentage of those people that work? A lot of them aren't just sponges living off the government; they're just stuck in dead-end jobs.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by NadaCambia

 

You're wrong, but I won't be able to convince you.

You can read the books, read the studies, but you probably won't believe it.

You are doomed to your lifestyle. If you really wanted to get a leg up, you might go find a millionairre and ask them. You might find a mentor and emulate them. You might read the books and test the theories. You might just sit down with a calculator and decide for yourself, but you won't.

I know for a fact that I feed my family of 4 on about $80 worth of groceries per week. My wife even has a gluten intolerance, so we have to buy specialty food. We don't eat crap, we eat good meals with a variety of foodgroups. We have occasional ice cream and candy. We drink sweet tea and kool-aid. If I were single today, I could live off less than $80 per month for food. I wouldn't, because I don't have to, but I could. If I was even smarter than myself, I would live even more frugally, and I would pay off even more things, but I balance my frugalness with my zest for life. I'm lucky to have that luxury, but I feel I've earned it.

And my Mum fed a family of 4 on less than that. Good for is expensive, crap food isn't. People without money need a microwave, the cost of running an oven and grill is much more costly as you know. The only way to beat the oven if you will is too cook several meals at once, and then comes the need for a refridgerator to store the meals.

Don't be mistaken and think I'm struggling or living beyond my means, I have no car, no mobile phone, an empty wardrobe, a cupboard full of rice and beans - But these things alone only allow for comfort if you're making enough money. Without money you'll still struggle.

Of course people going out and buying cars, clothes and gadgets beyond their means is stupid, but not doing so doesn't magically alleviate you from poverty, unfortunately.

reply to post by chrissiel123


Anyone would feel for you, and I hope your hard work will pay off soon...

But I think your missing the point of this thread, which is.

In what other country would you take your business? If you didn't already have to sell all your possessions just to buy bread?

reply to post by dolphinfan


Alrighty then !


Now as there is plenty People here living Poor or Living on The Edge of Being..Poor...

. in my Own County of my State

You Seriously think that Most Non Criminal Underclass people are Buying Brand New TV 's DVDS ((((( VCR!!!!!!)))))?

What I have gathered from this thread is that its relatively easy for Americans to get xbox360, extra tv's and cellphones! Even second hand!

How cool is that!?

Most of the world wants clean water... But your debating about how easy it is for poor people to get ahold of gaming consoles.

reply to post by dolphinfan


I think what we're seeing is that the "poor" as they now are is what used to be the middle class. Working class people.

reply to post by getreadyalready


No, it doesn't boil down to being savvy, it boils down to having enough of a surplus to save it. At minimum wage there is no surplus; in most places it requires two fulltime minimum wage jobs to survive. And there's thousands of people competing for just one.

Don't tell me how you worked minimum wage unless you've worked it recently. Minimum wage hasn't budged in years, while everything has increased in price. Working minimum wage 20 or 30 years ago doesn't equate with today, even though the minimum wage rates are nearly the same as they were then.

I know full well how to shop smart and get value for what I buy, but I can't save what I don't have.

It's damned if you do and damned if you don't: if you're smart and savvy enough to maximize what little you have and do relatively well, all things considered, you're the rich poor who are leeching; if not, you're lazy and stupid.

I used to buy ramen for five cents a package, now they are a quarter on sale. Green onions were a quarterr a bunch, now over a dollar..bread on sale is $2.50, on a good day, not to mention that the 16-oz can is only 15 ounces today...$30 a week for food doesn't go far these days, and the factory farm food isn't as good or nutritious.

reply to post by dolphinfan


What an amazing display of ignorance. Let me define poverty for you: A person who works 80+ hours a week to be able to BARELY afford those basic amenities that are so readily abundant. What you have described are simply well-housed slaves. That is what you are when you toil endlessly for the basics in life, while your efforts make someone else rich. If you would like to compare our poor with that of other countries, it would be wise to take into consideration how many hours they work in comparison. On average, they put in less than a third as much work to obtain their standard quality of living. I have visited countries where they have so much less than we do, and they are always smiling and friendly. One would be hard pressed to find that amount of general happiness in our poor areas, much less our middle-class suburbs. Poverty has little to do with what type of gadgets you do or don't have.

I was reading through the post....and actually I got angrier and angrier....you can clearly tell US people are poor, yeah poor in cultural awareness. What makes people believe, that having an a/c, x-box, TV or mobile phone makes you rich, IT MAKES YOU A CONSUMER SLAVE TO ALL SORTS OF CORPORATIONS
Being rich means having savings, owning property and being clear of debt, everybody else who can not place three check ticks is a show-off consumer slave.
Don' t you see that this report wants to make the listed things regular standard and force everybody into buying the idea that not owning these things is under the level POOR.
People go buy land, grow organic things on this land be independent and debt free, exchange products and services and stop utilizing your money or going into debt buying things produced in third-world countries by displaced low wage workers in environment degrading factories. Always ask yourselves who has a benefit!!!!!

most of the poor do drugs
many of them gamble
most of them smoke cigaretts

that shouldnt be allowed - welfare money (like some us sate did) only on a special creditcard whithout the possebility to buy cigaretts, alcohol and lottery tickets...

and after a period of time we need forced labour...i am serious, too many people stay in welfare mode (especially true in europe) because there isnt (any) pressure on them...

reply to post by Hessdalen


I had a recent conversation with someone who felt disabled people should be forced FORCED to compete with able bodied individuals for jobs in our current economic situation. WTF???

Originally posted by Hessdalen
most of the poor do drugs
many of them gamble
most of them smoke cigaretts

that shouldnt be allowed - welfare money (like some us sate did) only on a special creditcard whithout the possebility to buy cigaretts, alcohol and lottery tickets...

and after a period of time we need forced labour...i am serious, too many people stay in welfare mode (especially true in europe) because there isnt (any) pressure on them...

Have you properly thought about what you just said? Forced labour would see even more people out of jobs, as the government has an army of people on welfare who can do their work for way less than half the price. The best outcome in that scenario would still see millions of workers have their wages dramatically reduced and forced into even worse poverty.

You'd destroy the country and incite a bloody war on the streets

reply to post by Hessdalen


WHO SELLS LOTTERY TICKETS, ALCOHOL AND CIGARETTES IS IT NOT THE GOVERNMENT AND THE CORPORATIONS??? HMMMM...JUST THINK WHO HAS A BENEFIT

Originally posted by getreadyalready
I was thrilled to get a 10% raise at work! That 10% raise was $2400 per year or $200 per month. It made us completely ineligible for the food stamps! We had a net LOSS of $500 per month.

Yeah, that sounds fair (not). I've got a similar story- my dad lives strictly off of Social Security. He used to be covered under Medicaid, if any of you don't know the difference Medicaid is needs-based and covers a lot more of a person's medical expenses than Medicare. Anyway, one year he got the standard cost of living increase on his Social Security and to his astonishment he was kicked out of Medicaid because he was making 1.50 too much per month as a result of the increase. So as a result of a puny cost of living raise during which the government made no change to the Medicaid eligibility minimum income amount, my dad and no doubt thousands like him lost Medicaid coverage. So he now has to pay hundreds a month for treatments and medication, so his cost-of-living increase ended up being a huge penalty instead of an increase. I'm convinced this was a completely intentional ploy by the government to remove people out of the system so they could save money on payouts.

reply to post by dolphinfan


Thank for for making the point with such flair for the written word. I'm afraid I've taken a great deal of grief in various places for trying to make the same general point with far less eloquence. America is certainly a land of contradictions. On one hand we don't just have a few families of the filthy, obscenely rich...we have entire sectors of states pretty well claimed by that upper class and it's invite-only, to be sure. On the other hand we have the bitter poverty I've seen in some of the backwoods areas from Kentucky and West Virginia to Montana and Washington state. The REAL grinding poverty people don't see without really getting off the interstates and seeing the area up close.

Then in between we have what you so well describe. The majority of "poor" that almost universally have a weight problem and a large % technically qualify as obese or beyond. I'd imagine the VAST majority of the world's poor populations would give almost anything but their very lives to trade places and suffer the "problems" of the urban poor in America.

We certainly do lose all perspective as to what is important in life and how success ought to be measured, that is for sure,

Originally posted by drew1749
reply to post by dolphinfan

 

I think what we're seeing is that the "poor" as they now are is what used to be the middle class. Working class people.

Hey OP here ya Go !

Working Class Hero - John Lennon


Working Class Hero
en.wikipedia.org...

As soon as your born they make you feel small,
By giving you no time instead of it all,
Till the pain is so big you feel nothing at all,
A working class hero is something to be,
A working class hero is something to be.
They hurt you at home and they hit you at school,
They hate you if you're clever and they despise a fool,
Till you're so #ing crazy you can't follow their rules,
A working class hero is something to be,
A working class hero is something to be.
When they've tortured and scared you for twenty odd years,
Then they expect you to pick a career,
When you can't really function you're so full of fear,
A working class hero is something to be,
A working class hero is something to be.
Keep you doped with religion and sex and TV,
And you think you're so clever and classless and free,
But you're still #ing peasents as far as I can see,
A working class hero is something to be,
A working class hero is something to be.
There's room at the top they are telling you still,
But first you must learn how to smile as you kill,
If you want to be like the folks on the hill,
A working class hero is something to be.
A working class hero is something to be.
If you want to be a hero well just follow me,
If you want to be a hero well just follow me.

Wiki

Working Class
en.wikipedia.org...

Wealth is relative.

We have the technology and resources to help people, if we wanted to.

reply to post by dolphinfan


You are expecting an ashcan fire and cardboard boxes?
I see enough of those. I remember driving along the roads of America and seeing these people along the train tracks. It is pathetic but they are off the map and out of any studies and census the government may take.

You don't even hear about these people until some progressive news show does and expose of them living in tunnels and in the sewers.
I don't think it is MOST of the poor since as you point out there are ranges and levels of poor but don't forget the sewer rats, the roadies, and the folks whose home adjoins the restroom at the park.