Religion Has No Place in a Public Education System.

reply to post by Annee


Maybe it would be a good idea to request national flying spaghetti monster holidays. Also here in Europe.

No on the grounds that It Could Be True, if its mysteries were ever understood. On the grounds; that although "we have no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise" We Could if; that's What We The People Want. We should never make anyone believe or not; but We should be allowed to have a GOD We Trust and believe just like other countries such as Iran or Isreal does. Really, I'd rather let my kids go to school with People who believe in God; instead of those who dont. They dont have to believe in My God; but they shouldnt stop me either for freely declaring His Name cause it makes others Ashamed.

Originally posted by bogomil
reply to post by 1MrsJesusChrist

 

You wrote:

["they should know the difference between A Male and A Female and Why GOD made Adam and Eve and like All Things that come from Heaven, Universe Etc, are like stars or indivdual snowflakes and loved. They also need to be taught why they should honor both their father AND mother and not one over the other. Especially if you didnt know your father and he never claimed you as his own and She raised you alone, sacrificed Her life so you could be born and made you 1st or Her top priority be given More Glory."]

In other words....you want to re-introduce the preaching-variety of religious indoctrination. And let me guess, on the grounds of its being: "True, because it's true".

Which is NOT the case; it's false. The REAL 'god' is the great noodle-master and messiah/prophet is the flying spaghetti monster. But pastafarians are liberal, and don't insist on some self-appointed groups' elitist rights to make propaganda in public education systems.

Originally posted by bogomil
Maybe it would be a good idea to request national flying spaghetti monster holidays.

Now you're comparing holidays established over thousands of years of religious tradition to a cartoon some kids made up a few years ago (2005). My good man, you can try to add cartoons into this discussion as if it were relevant, but then you can also try feeding starving kids in Africa by making sure your kids finish their dinner. "Eat your dinner, there are starving kids in Africa." Sounds cool on the surface but even a child knows that the idea has no effect on the reality of the situation. A cartoon does not equal religion. Kids finishing broccoli will not feed kids in Africa although it will help prevent African children from being tortured with the green soggy vegetables.

The idea that the FSM will ever be discussed as a serious religion is a joke. But then they do serve spaghetti at schools for lunch so it could be an effort to teach FSM religion to kids.

Say's Who? Oh we can have a Holiday to Celbrate Christopher Columbus; who came rape, robbed and stole all that most White Christian claim as their own, but We shouldnt call it Thanksgiving huh? Christians like Gov. Perry should have Flag Day, in which they Break GOD's 1st and other commandments by Pledging Allegiance to a Flag and Republic instead of GOD; before; most of those kids even know what the word Allegiance means. Just let them think GOD's name is the Almighty Buck, and that will Help them more; instead of giving them the name of the God We Trust.

Well let me put like this; As for Me and My Household Will Serve the Lord and for those sons of guns; and witches who chose NO like John McCain & Sara Palin; I Know; One Day GOD will send Johnny Marching Home Again, Hurrah, Hurrah......And when He Goes, He will be Limping and Thrown Into the Lake of Fire Swimming with His Skin inside out or outside in. Actually either way makes me no difference.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by 1MrsJesusChrist
Well frankly I think that is Unfortunate because; you give the kids time off but they dont know why? I is wrong to take Christ out of Christmas, and that's just as wrong; as calling things; spring break instead of the Soltice, Easter, Passover, etc.

It is wrong for the government to have official religious holidays. Especially since they are exclusively Christian holidays. They would never get away with that today.

However - undoing something is not so easy.

It is up to parents to teach their kids whatever god belief or non belief they want. It is definitely not up to schools to recognize it.

A neutral name for these breaks is the ONLY correct thing to do.

reply to post by 1MrsJesusChrist


You wrote:

["but We should be allowed to have a GOD We Trust and believe just like other countries such as Iran or Isreal does."]

Has anyone prevented you from having a 'god' you trust in? Do you live in Satanville, where even the legal system is against you?

To my knowledge Israel is secular (but I may be wrong) and as to using Iran as a good example of anything religous or political, it's ......peculiar?..... maybe.

Quote: ["Really, I'd rather let my kids go to school with People who believe in God;"]

Why? Do you after all don't want them to be able to form their own opinions, which eventually may differ from yours. How could that limit your possibilities of manifesting christian values.

Quote: ["They dont have to believe in My God; but they shouldnt stop me either for freely declaring His Name cause it makes others Ashamed."]

I know a lot of people talking about Buddha, without anyone (except fanatic christians ofcourse), raising an eyebrow. The problem may be, that when some christians start talking about their religion, they become unbearable with all the monopoly-seeking megalomania.

But in any case, your persecution-insinuations have nothing to do with an educational system.

No, its not that at all; like I said; I believe All Religions should be studied in school; to give kids a variety as well as ability to make a choice. That's exactly what happened to the Boys scouts. They were Called Christian; until somebody joined and said; their Christian GOD made fun of them because of their sexual orientation. My point is dont join anything; if you dont agree with the principals. Everybody can see the kinds of principals Presidental Candidate Michelle Bachman believes in when She signed that Marriage Pledge.

But again; If you don't want Homos to marry; than Dont marry one, If you dont approve of Abortion; Dont have One; But you Dont Have the Right to Stop Anyone Else from getting what they Want.

Originally posted by bogomil
reply to post by 1MrsJesusChrist

 

You wrote:

["but We should be allowed to have a GOD We Trust and believe just like other countries such as Iran or Isreal does."]

Has anyone prevented you from having a 'god' you trust in? Do you live in Satanville, where even the legal system is against you?

To my knowledge Israel is secular (but I may be wrong) and as to using Iran as a good example of anything religous or political, it's ......peculiar?..... maybe.

Quote: ["Really, I'd rather let my kids go to school with People who believe in God;"]

Why? Do you after all don't want them to be able to form their own opinions, which eventually may differ from yours. How could that limit your possibilities of manifesting christian values.

Quote: ["They dont have to believe in My God; but they shouldnt stop me either for freely declaring His Name cause it makes others Ashamed."]

I know a lot of people talking about Buddha, without anyone (except fanatic christians ofcourse), raising an eyebrow. The problem may be, that when some christians start talking about their religion, they become unbearable with all the monopoly-seeking megalomania.

But in any case, your persecution-insinuations have nothing to do with an educational system.

reply to post by Captain Obvious


You wrote:

["Now you're comparing holidays established over thousands of years of religious tradition to a cartoon some kids made up a few years ago (2005)."]

I find your need to follow the 'holiday' side-tracking direction misplaced; but well, let's go there anyway. Said holidays are many of them older than christianity, which just hijacked them.

And what's wrong with 'made-up'? The christian mythology is mostly made-up.

Quote: ["My good man, you can try to add cartoons into this discussion as if it were relevant, but then you can also try feeding starving kids in Africa by making sure your kids finish their dinner. "Eat your dinner, there are starving kids in Africa."]

I fail to see the comparison, as you obviously have no idea of why pastafarian'ism is about, as demonstrated here....

Quote: [" Sounds cool on the surface but even a child knows that the idea has no effect on the reality of the situation. A cartoon does not equal religion."]

No, but a systematic methodology (if you're familiar with the concept) certainly does; no matter how absurd the outer layers look. In this case the absurdity is intentional, reflecting back on theist methodology.

Quote: ["The idea that the FSM will ever be discussed as a serious religion is a joke."]

From some, increasingly popular perspectives, the joke lies in that certain christian doctrines are being taken seriously. Maybe not in your circles though.

Quote: ["But then they do serve spaghetti at schools for lunch so it could be an effort to teach FSM religion to kids."]

Imo you take this allegory far beyond, what it can carry.

reply to post by 1MrsJesusChrist


You wrote:

["But you Dont Have the Right to Stop Anyone Else from getting what they Want."]

If it interferes with other peoples' lives, it is un-acceptable. Generally it's live and let live on the conditions of egalitarian, liberal, secular democractic principles.

How is that interferring in other people's lives? If they dont want to be a part of it; they dont have to

Originally posted by bogomil
reply to post by 1MrsJesusChrist

 

You wrote:

["But you Dont Have the Right to Stop Anyone Else from getting what they Want."]

If it interferes with other peoples' lives, it is un-acceptable. Generally it's live and let live on the conditions of egalitarian, liberal, secular democractic principles.

edit on 19-7-2011 by bogomil because: last half sentence added

Originally posted by 1MrsJesusChrist
How is that interferring in other people's lives? If they dont want to be a part of it; they dont have to

Originally posted by bogomil
reply to post by 1MrsJesusChrist

 

You wrote:

["But you Dont Have the Right to Stop Anyone Else from getting what they Want."]

If it interferes with other peoples' lives, it is un-acceptable. Generally it's live and let live on the conditions of egalitarian, liberal, secular democractic principles.

edit on 19-7-2011 by bogomil because: last half sentence added

I'm afraid, that I am at a loss here. What is the "that" you refer to?

Originally posted by bogomil
reply to post by Annee

 

Maybe it would be a good idea to request national flying spaghetti monster holidays. Also here in Europe.

Maybe. Personally I would love an official government sanctioned Goddess holiday added to the mix - - just because.

Having been raised Christian - spending 60 years in search of god - and ending up as Atheist.

I'm 100% in favor of 100% secular. Zero God in government or anything related to government.

reply to post by Annee




You wrote:

["Having been raised Christian - spending 60 years in search of god - and ending up as Atheist."]

Must be karma or sum'fin.

Just kidding, I'm not keen on karma either. (Whereas goddesses as an expression of unknown cosmic principles appeal to me).

But the question of re-introducing religious indoctrination in schools goes beyond its present implications. Next we could be up against a re-defined science, teaching children that computers origine from divine inspiration, and that farmers should pray their crops into growing instead of using whatever available technology and objective knowledge they have (well, it would solve the overpopulation problem, if you don't mind billions dying of starvation).

Theist messing with society and its functions has never been successful, except as considered by theists.

Originally posted by bogomil

But the question of re-introducing religious indoctrination in schools goes beyond its present implications. Next we could be up against a re-defined science, teaching children that computers origine from divine inspiration, and that farmers should pray their crops into growing instead of using whatever available technology and objective knowledge they have (well, it would solve the overpopulation problem, if you don't mind billions dying of starvation).

Theist messing with society and its functions has never been successful, except as considered by theists.

But - it isn't fully out of "government" schools yet in America. It needs to be.

It pisses me off that government allows bending of the rules in the bible belt. They are still government schools and under separation of church and state.

I think it is interesting how many find Atheism in their search for God truth. The real truth - the real facts are very revealing.

READ THE WHOLE ARTICLE

Open Letter to Student about Religion in Schools

By Jeanne

When I was in school, church was an important part of my life, but the more questioning and reading I did, the more I felt that religion was unreasonable. I could never get intelligent answers from the preacher or Sunday school teachers concerning my questions. When I began to open my eyes to the hypocrisy of the important members of my church and all the nasty intrigue and back stabbing that went on, I became disgusted. By the time I had graduated college, I felt that organized religion was detrimental to spiritual growth. In time, I came to doubt the existence of god, and just as I never believed that Zeus existed, I soon no longer believed that the christian god existed. Reading and questioning and experiencing the realities of life and death, of love and hate, of peace and war, of the religious and the non religious...all these things led me to become an atheist. I have raised my children as atheists. They have endured the public school, which is overwhelmingly christian. Many hurtful things have been done and said to them by christians. They were told as early as first grade that they were going to burn in hell because they didn't go to Sunday school. They have had people absolutely deny that they could possibly not believe. They have had people vilify them for worshipping the devil...for some reason christians believe that is the only alternative. They have had personal property vandalized because it was of an atheist nature. The bible study club openly prays for their souls from time to time. The most hurtful thing came when a girl asked my son's girlfriend... "I don't understand, how can an atheist love someone?"

All of these things happened because religion has been allowed to be a large part of the public school system in our small town. Oddly enough, the christians here seem to be okay with judaism, buddhism, islam and even wicca.... "at least they believe in something." But you could count on the fingers of one hand those students who practice any of these religions. Their rights are merely tolerated with a token mention of their religious holy days..... well, not wicca. The overall feeling of the schools is one of christianity.

www.atheistparents.org...

I personally think religion should be taught in school. But it must be ALL religions.

I was baptised (Church of England) but I was allowed to learn about many different religions in high-school education.

Each religion was taught (with the exeption of Christianity) without bias. I think that helped me in making a decision for myself.

I wonder if everyone knew the basic beliefs and origins of other religions if there would be so much war.

Are you still at a loss for words; or did you hear Satan has filed suit against Her employer, the Gop, G.W. Bush Cheney and Rupert Murdoch for Mass Religion Fraud; caused by the word NO in the first Amendment as it relates to religion. It just doesnt seem fair or right; that before the White man came to lands not their own, Native American Indian women were the head of their households. Because of the "no law respecting an establishment of religion" those in the GOP think they can Blame Satan for everything. It time for them to stand up and tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help them GOD this time.

Originally posted by bogomil

Originally posted by 1MrsJesusChrist
How is that interferring in other people's lives? If they dont want to be a part of it; they dont have to

Originally posted by bogomil
reply to post by 1MrsJesusChrist

 

You wrote:

["But you Dont Have the Right to Stop Anyone Else from getting what they Want."]

If it interferes with other peoples' lives, it is un-acceptable. Generally it's live and let live on the conditions of egalitarian, liberal, secular democractic principles.

edit on 19-7-2011 by bogomil because: last half sentence added

I'm afraid, that I am at a loss here. What is the "that" you refer to?

reply to post by 1MrsJesusChrist


You wrote:

["Are you still at a loss for words;"]

I am seldom at a loss for words. My 'loss' in this case was based on your imprecise text, which I couldn't understand, and still don't understand, as you haven't answered my question.

Quote: ["or did you hear Satan has filed suit against Her employer, the Gop, G.W. Bush Cheney and Rupert Murdoch for Mass Religion Fraud;"]

Something tells me, that you are american. Being both uninterested in and unfamiliar with the specifics of religious impact on US culture, I can't relate to your example.

Quote: ["It just doesnt seem fair or right; that before the White man came to lands not their own, Native American Indian women were the head of their households."]

I spend a considerable amount of time here on ATS, arguing FOR egalitarian principles, AGAINST various forms of christian elitism. You will find me an ally on the points of this quote.

Quote: ["Because of the "no law respecting an establishment of religion" those in the GOP think they can Blame Satan for everything. It time for them to stand up and tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help them GOD this time."]

I don't know, if this is the case with you, but many religonists have problems understanding the principles of egalitarian, liberal, secular democracy, and ascribe all kinds of weird things to it. Could you clarify your points a bit, please.

And do you have any comments on the place of religion in public education?