Moussaoui Trial Images - Please help to establish the facts.

reply to post by TupacShakur

If a video shows what they are saying, then there wouldn't be much reason to doubt them. However going off of eye-witness testimonies and a blurry video that doesn't show what the witnesses claim they saw isn't going to cut it for me.

I'll admit that the video doesn't show much very clearly, but how do you go from there to claiming that the video does not agree with the witnesses? As far as I know all the witnesses claim the plane hit the Pentagon so where is the difference? But in the end your last statement is the most important, that it doesn't cut it for you. Fine, but it "cuts" it for everyone else.

All the evidence points to one conclusion, the photos of the victims of the Pentagon attack are NOT from the Jet.

A. The government never identifies them as victims from the aircraft.

B. The government has never showed post-mortem pictures of the victims aboard the aircraft's.

C. As one poster noted, the Navy Lt Commander, that is in the group of men, pointing to all three of them being Pentagon employees.

D. They are fully intact, do they look like humans that just collided with a building, while moving at 530mph?

E. If you look at some of the diagrams, there was a large amount bodies/body parts that were found in the punch out area. These were most certainly where the vast majority of the victims from the aircraft ended up at.


I think it's quite clear, the pentagon released the photos because they knew they were pentagon employees. They most certainly don't appear to have been on a jet that just crashed into a building at 530mph. People who claim otherwise are simply pushing a agenda.

reply to post by PersonalChoice


tho, keep it mind, people who try to debunk us, 'conspiracy believers', maybe they can't, not able to or will never accept the fact that a huge organisation, is it within the government, country or a foreign group, was able to execute a mass murder plan without being punished. I can imagine there are people who 'll never accept the fact that the government could lie, and doing this without blinking of their eyes. There are people who aren't ready for this giant truth, and that is their right, cause they want to protect themselves.....(i guess)

but the facts show the government was involved anyway...too many coincidences that tragic day

and look what that event has brought us to, today? Millions of deaths, an increase of hate and dislike, huge financial problems for the USA and Europe, and both are very close to drowning....

reply to post by GoodOlDave


"All it was needed to foil the plot was a computer terminal at the airports for TSA personnel to find out the people boarding the planes were on the gov'ts terrorist watch list,"

your reference to the TSA is confusing me because the TSA was created after 9/11?? or am i missing something here? or are you using the TSA as an example? if you are then dont use examples to state your case, its not credible!!

reply to post by bing0


i couldnt agree more and whats more damaging is the reports on rupert murdochs empire wire tapping the families of the victims of 9/11??? there is no reason to spy on them to get a story...these people were grieving like any other family that lost a relative...so what would be the reason they were spied on????

reply to post by hooper

I'll admit that the video doesn't show much very clearly, but how do you go from there to claiming that the video does not agree with the witnesses? As far as I know all the witnesses claim the plane hit the Pentagon so where is the difference?

Because seeing some grainy, low resolution greyish blob does not provide me with enough evidence. The difference is there is more than one type of aircraft in this world, they're not all Boeing 757s, so looking at that video evidence it could have been a cruise missile as much as a Boeing 757.

We were shown this: [atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/75690c9ea6bb.jpg[/atsimg]
I would like to see something like this: [atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/24b43c156655.jpg[/atsimg]

But in the end your last statement is the most important, that it doesn't cut it for you. Fine, but it "cuts" it for everyone else.

You aren't in the position to speak for "everyone else". I am not the only one who sees one frame of a partially obscured low resolution blob and doesn't just take Fox News word that it's a Boeing 757.

Originally posted by hooper
reply to post by TupacShakur

 

If a video shows what they are saying, then there wouldn't be much reason to doubt them. However going off of eye-witness testimonies and a blurry video that doesn't show what the witnesses claim they saw isn't going to cut it for me.

I'll admit that the video doesn't show much very clearly, but how do you go from there to claiming that the video does not agree with the witnesses? As far as I know all the witnesses claim the plane hit the Pentagon so where is the difference? But in the end your last statement is the most important, that it doesn't cut it for you. Fine, but it "cuts" it for everyone else.

Thats a speculative statement. And an outright lie too.
It may cut if for the people that take MSM and our governments word as gospel, but for those of us that have any clue to what really happened, and who may be involved...it doesnt cut it for any of us.

What really surprises me is that not either Viper, Hooper, of GooDOD can counter anything that tupac presents.
In one corner we have Dave stating he hasnt seen a certain video that he has most certainly seen at least a dozen times before...unless, of course, he was lying in other threads when discussing it.
We have Viper, basically just backing down, agreeing that a body might be a body. And we have hooper, just trying to establish reasonable doubt to Tupacs statements...all while all three are attempting to derail the thread/topic.
This is quite humorous.

Nice job Tupac. It seems you have sent the 3Wiseman back to the books of dis-info. Maybe they will call the other resident believers to help back them up.

reply to post by DIDtm

Thats a speculative statement. And an outright lie too.

No, not really. Its the truth. Everyone else is satsified. The microscopic subset of cultish individuals that hold otherwise don't constitute a large enough sample to need to modify "everyone".

It may cut if for the people that take MSM and our governments word as gospel, but for those of us that have any clue to what really happened, and who may be involved...it doesnt cut it for any of us.

False choices. It is not either "gospel" or all lies. There are points in between. Thats where "everyone" else resides.

What really surprises me is that not either Viper, Hooper, of GooDOD can counter anything that tupac presents.

That's because they are speculations built on fantasy, innuendo, assumption or inference.

In one corner we have Dave stating he hasnt seen a certain video that he has most certainly seen at least a dozen times before...unless, of course, he was lying in other threads when discussing it.

Yep, everyone is lying. There all just liars. Unless, of course, their lies reinforce your particular brand of conspiracy.

We have Viper, basically just backing down, agreeing that a body might be a body. And we have hooper, just trying to establish reasonable doubt to Tupacs statements...all while all three are attempting to derail the thread/topic. This is quite humorous.

I think its pretty funny too, but probably not for the same reason.

Nice job Tupac. It seems you have sent the 3Wiseman back to the books of dis-info. Maybe they will call the other resident believers to help back them up.

Yep, I'm sure the new investigation and the "revolution" is right around the corner.

reply to post by hooper

No, not really. Its the truth. Everyone else is satsified. The microscopic subset of cultish individuals that hold otherwise don't constitute a large enough sample to need to modify "everyone".

Wrong.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/c4571e97555f.jpg[/atsimg]

This poll found that about 1/3 of Americans believe in a 9/11 conspiracy.

This one done by the New York Times and CBS found that 84% of Americans don't believe the official story.

This poll found that about 1/3 of Americans suspect a 9/11 conspiracy.

Now, those polls are Americans that not only support a new investigation but don't believe the official story also. Here are some polls about a new investigation: 48% of New Yorkers support a new investigation.

70 MILLION Americans would like a new investigation. Do you consider 70 million to be a "microscopic subset of cultish individuals"?

And before you bash those polls and claim that they're biased since some are linked to conspiracy sites, because I know for a fact you were going to do just that, take the time to find some polls backing up your claims. Find some polls showing that only a tiny fraction, a "microscopic subset" of Americans would support a new investigation. To be considered microscopic, I would say that's .25% of Americans or less, but I pity you because of your ignorance so I'll be nice: Find me a poll claiming that less than 10% of Americans support a new investigation.

Originally posted by hooper
That's because they are speculations built on fantasy, innuendo, assumption or inference.

Why have you refused to prove, retract or revise your claim that the images showed passenger remains?

All of the casual readers can see that you and GoodOlDave have failed to address the topic of this thread.

reply to post by TupacShakur


Shall we try something newer than 5-8 years old?
From Wiki:

A March 2010 poll conducted by the Angus Reid Public Opinion organization found that 15% of respondents found theories that the World Trade Center was brought down by a controlled demolition to be credible. Anywhere between 6 percent and 15 percent of respondents found credibility in claims that United Airlines Flight 93 was shot down, that no airplanes hit the Pentagon or the World Trade Center.[22]

en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by userid1
reply to post by TupacShakur

 

Shall we try something newer than 5-8 years old?
From Wiki:

A March 2010 poll conducted by the Angus Reid Public Opinion organization found that 15% of respondents found theories that the World Trade Center was brought down by a controlled demolition to be credible. Anywhere between 6 percent and 15 percent of respondents found credibility in claims that United Airlines Flight 93 was shot down, that no airplanes hit the Pentagon or the World Trade Center.[22]

en.wikipedia.org...

edit on 19-7-2011 by userid1 because: (no reason given)

I take it you didnt read your own source. By 'your own', I am implying the source you admitted into this conversation. Just want to make sure you and semantics dont interfere with each other again.

AHEM....onto the subject.
From your source, it shows that 46% of the world average in 2008, thought that Al-CIAda were responsible for the attacks on 9/11. That leaves the majority who dont think it was AQ or who simply do not know.

And every poll that 'your source' lists, not one of them show a microscopic percentage believe in a conspiracy theory...which was the entire point that you responded to.

Yet, while speaking about more recent polls....how about this from 1 month ago.
5 weeks ago poll

reply to post by DIDtm


As if I care what the rest of the world thinks. The poll I linked to shows was the US thinks. It *also* does not limit itself to New Yorkers - which your poll does. Are you suggesting that New Yorkers represent the remainder of the US? Fat chance....

reply to post by userid1


Truth is not a matter for opinion polls.

If ONE person believes the truth and everybody else believes him wrong ,what he believes is still the truth if and only if it is the truth.

If truth were a matter for opinion polls then the official story is not true. Tiny minority my ass.

reply to post by Darkwing01


Sorry, you've no argument from my perspective. No one else *but* the US was attacked that day. We're the only ones that had to suffer through it and pick up the pieces. We're the ones who had to determine what happened. WE'RE the ones entitled to make the judgement(s).

BTW - I took the statement "...cuts it for everyone else..." to mean just Americans - not the world. If hooper states he meant differently, I'll retract the point of my post - but I still won't care what other countries believe. It's *our* tragedy, and *our* business.

www.angus-reid.com...

The collapse of the World Trade Center was the result of a controlled demolition
Credible
15%
Not credible
74%
Not sure
11%

United Airlines Flight 93, which crashed in Pennsylvania, was shot down
Credible
15%
Not credible
62%
Not sure
2%

No airplane actually crashed at the Pentagon on Sept. 11
Credible
13%
Not credible
76%
Not sure
11%

No airplanes crashed into the World Trade Center—the images seen on television were altered
Credible
6%
Not credible
87%
Not sure
7%

In all, two-thirds of Americans (67%) agree with the commission that investigated the events of Sept. 11, 2001, which concluded that an attack was carried out by 19 hijackers who were members of the al-Qaeda terrorist organization, led by Osama bin Laden. Only 12 per cent of respondents reject the commission's findings, and one-in-five Americans (21%) are undecided.
Four-in-five Republicans (80%) stand by the commission's findings, while two-thirds of Democrats (66%) and Independents (65) concur.

.
Note the nearly double number of "unsure" vice those who "reject" the findings. That is NOT a win for the truthers. 12% is still just 12%.

Source: Angus Reid Public Opinion
Methodology: Online interviews with 1,007 American adults, conducted on Mar. 9 and Mar. 10, 2010. Margin of error is 3.1 per cent.

reply to post by userid1


Too bad there wasn't a poll included of how many Americans knew that Building 7 collapsed.
Outside of NY, I bet its the minority.

When key aspects of a case are unknown, then polls truly don't mean anything.
That's like saying you know someone is guilty of a crime just because Nancy Grace says so, without ever hearing all the evidence.

But your polls are more precise than that, right?

reply to post by DIDtm


The polls reflect what IS known or presumed known by the respondents. They kind of ALL work that way. Is this a problem for you?

reply to post by userid1


OK, you found a poll that shows only 12% of American don't trust the commissions report. We found several that say a fairly significant chunk believe that there is a conspiracy.

Still, there are 311,802,555 American citizens as of today, and 12% of that is over 37 million Americans.

Would you consider 37 million americans a "microscopic subset" of the population? I don't think so, besides, why would a new investigation hurt? Would a couple more million dollars being spent really be the straw that breaks the camels back? (The camel being our insane debt)

If you are so confident in the official story, why do you get so hostile when the idea of a new, more thorough investigation is brought up?

reply to post by userid1

Sorry, you've no argument from my perspective. No one else *but* the US was attacked that day. We're the only ones that had to suffer through it and pick up the pieces. We're the ones who had to determine what happened. WE'RE the ones entitled to make the judgement(s). BTW - I took the statement "...cuts it for everyone else..." to mean just Americans - not the world. If hooper states he meant differently, I'll retract the point of my post - but I still won't care what other countries believe. It's *our* tragedy, and *our* business.

"You're either for us or against us" ring any bell.

You have made it, and continue to make it everyone else's business the moment you set foot outside your country. Deal with it.

It is everybody else who has ever tried to open a bank account or board an aeroplane's business anywhere and everywhere in the world. Sorry if that offends your sensibilities but that is the reality.